1 hour ago, Bellona said:

Okay, latest version of Mireska:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/n2lunyko0il2wgs/Mireska_Tano%27bi.pdf/file

I re-arranged some skills, talents, and Force power based on the mentor power discount.

The armour is a place-holder, more or less, until I figure out what I want to do and how to tackle it with OggDude's program. (I'm not sure if the Armour Inserts attachment from CaM is working properly in the program.)

The lightsabre is more-or-less what I want now, but technically a place-holder until I get some hilt construction (as per EV) dice rolls made/confirmed on orokos. It will have a Cyclic Crystal Array, but no Damping Emitter. Regarding the lightsabre crystals, I'm starting with Ilum because the Jedi characters get that one freebie, but I'm ultimately aiming for 2x Kimber Stones ("Stun Setting"), 2x Lorrdian Gemstones (adding Defensive and Deflection), and maybe 2x Sapith Gems ("property damage" with Breach 2). Therefore I hope to trade in the 2x Ilum Crystals at one point. ... And I just realised that I can also mod the Illum Crystals in the meantime, so there's that change still coming (for some reason I was thinking that  crystal mods were a sizeable cost).

The backstory has been adjusted a bit to account for a different Morality and some extra Motivations. I've added a bit to the Side-Story section at the bottom, but am still lacking Kaminoan/other names. The side-story probably needs to be padded out a bit more.

Ogg dude doesn't handle armor inserts correctly, the set defense appears to be getting applied after the increase defense mod. What I did was copied concealing robes in ogg dude data editor to "conceal ing robes for armor inserts" set its soak and defense to 1, encumbrance to 3, hard points to 1, removed the special identity concealing feature of the copy. Then copied armor inserts and removed from the copy set soak and set defense base mods. Then after reopening the character generator bought the concealing robes for armor inserts and added my modified copy of armor inserts in it to get to the RAW effect.

34 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

If they know about it, likely Disappointment/disapproval from some jedi but not more than that (you wouldn't be kicked out of the order or forced to give it up). This one is purely lightside/protective/defensive so your on the up and up according to the jedi code but some jedi are biased against all alchemical crafting OTHER THAN ATTUNING A LIGHTSABER CRYSTAL (so they're hypocrites) but that's their problem not yours.

Maybe it was a secret handed down from her master, who got it from his master, and so on back along a particular line of teaching masters over the millenia. Or one of the more recent of those masters picked up the secret from a non-Jedi Force-using group.

Silly question, where in OggDudes are you finding the career info for the Jedi careers? I can't quite figure out how to create the Padawan and knight specs work in the character creator. It would be so much easier to use that than putting everything into swsheets by hand.

Just now, vandarl said:

Silly question, where in OggDudes are you finding the career info for the Jedi careers? I can't quite figure out how to create the Padawan and knight specs work in the character creator. It would be so much easier to use that than putting everything into swsheets by hand.

There is career(s) in the data generator on the left side. It's quicker to have first created the specs then you can just check them for inclusion when you create the career

@Bellona btw great side story, gives me plenty to work with

51 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

@Bellona btw great side story, gives me plenty to work with

Thank you!

Do you want me to find the correct Kaminoan names on Wookiepedia (right now I only remember the Prime Minister's, Lama Su), or do you want to dig them up yourself so that I don't get spoiled?

I guess that it's almost an advantage that I've only seen clips of TCW, and therefore only know the general outline of the events which they cover. Most campaign "episodes" will probably be a surprise to me. Come to think of it, I still maintain that OWK could live and be off doing "other stuff" without bothering our hijacked storyline - that guy's a persistent survivor! (Particularly after what QGJ put him through in Legends.) OWK could just as easily have become a secretive Shadow instead of a poster-boy Jedi General.

9 hours ago, Bellona said:

Thank you!

Do you want me to find the correct Kaminoan names on Wookiepedia (right now I only remember the Prime Minister's, Lama Su), or do you want to dig them up yourself so that I don't get spoiled?

I guess that it's almost an advantage that I've only seen clips of TCW, and therefore only know the general outline of the events which they cover. Most campaign "episodes" will probably be a surprise to me. Come to think of it, I still maintain that OWK could live and be off doing "other stuff" without bothering our hijacked storyline - that guy's a persistent survivor! (Particularly after what QGJ put him through in Legends.) OWK could just as  easily have become a secretive Shadow instead of a poster-boy Jedi General.

This should be easy enough for me to find on wookieepedia. If obiwan isn't there to save the day if the PCs screw up it makes the PCs actions that much more important.

I was thinking more that we could save him.

Okay, I've tried some crafting with the associated dice rolling on orokos.

Orokos link: http://orokos.com/roll/743630

(I first mucked around a bit, getting the dice formula and documentation correct, then finally rolled all the correct dice as documented.)

Result: 3 successes (talisman created, and 3 hour crafting time reduced down to 1 hour minimum), 2 advantages + 2 dark side points (Careful Measuring + Sloppy Integration: -50% cost+25% cost = -25% cost, final cost 225 credits, down from 300 credits), 1 light side point (Hidden Purpose: +1 set-back on any checks to determine talisman's true function).

OggDude's program is weird with regard to crafting. It won't accept more than 1 advantage (I made up for it by adding a light side point instead of the second advantage, then in the next step it suddenly forgot about the first advantage), and it shows different symbols having been spent than actually were spent (1 despair instead of two dark side points; it comes out to the same result but - like I said - weird).

I've attached the Protective Amulet's sheet from OggDude (crosses fingers that the forum programming will cooperate). Please let me know if you want it on MediaFire too.

Mireska Tano'bi - Protective Amulet.pdf

1 hour ago, Bellona said:

Okay, I've tried some crafting with the associated dice rolling on orokos.

Orokos link: http://orokos.com/roll/743630

(I first mucked around a bit, getting the dice formula and documentation correct, then finally rolled all the correct dice as documented.)

Result: 3 successes (talisman created, and 3 hour crafting time reduced down to 1 hour minimum), 2 advantages + 2 dark side points (Careful Measuring + Sloppy Integration: -50% cost+25% cost = -25% cost, final cost 225 credits, down from 300 credits), 1 light side point (Hidden Purpose: +1 set-back on any checks to determine talisman's true function).

OggDude's program is weird with regard to crafting. It won't accept more than 1 advantage (I made up for it by adding a light side point instead of the second advantage, then in the next step it suddenly forgot about the first advantage), and it shows different symbols having been spent than actually were spent (1 despair instead of two dark side points; it comes out to the same result but - like I said - weird).

I've attached the Protective Amulet's sheet from OggDude (crosses fingers that the forum programming will cooperate). Please let me know if you want it on MediaFire too.

Mireska Tano'bi - Protective Amulet.pdf 169.85 kB · 0 downloads

The roll shouldn't have had any red dice in it so I don't know where the despair is coming from and you normally can't have threat and advantage on the same roll because they cancel (the engineer:shipwright spec is the only exception to that I'm aware of). And the protective amulet is easy enough to craft that I'm not to worried about it.

Now for some lightsabre hilt crafting ... Mechanics (Hard), using 2 Proficiency + 2 Ability + Jedi Multi-Tool's automatic +1 advantage.

Three attempts, with re-forging the hilt after the first and second ones. The third one had acceptable results which I chose to keep.

# 1: http://orokos.com/roll/743632 (2 successes, 1 advantage; cost 300 cr.), 10 hrs work, re-forged

# 2: http://orokos.com/roll/743633 (1 success, 3 advantages; cost 150 cr.) , 12 hrs work, 3 advantages spent on Personalised Design crafting result, re-forged

# 3: http://orokos.com/roll/743634 (1 success, 1 triumph, 1 advantage; cost 150 cr.), 12 hrs work, 1 advantage spent on Lightweight crafting result, 1 triumph spent to carry over hilt #2's Personalised Design

Result: 600 cr. (over 3 days?) for a double-bladed lightsabre hilt with Lightweight (encumbrance = 1) and Personalised Design crafting results.

Attachments added, hard points = 6 (4+2 from Temple artisans):

2 hard points for Cyclic Crystal Array (2x 1,500 cr. = 3,000 cr.)

2 hard points for Ilum Crystal #1 (free) and Illum Crystal #2 (9,000 cr.)

1 hard point for Hilt-Masking Kit (price to be determined)

1 hard point saved for later use

Total lightsabre cost so far = 12,600 cr. plus free Ilum, plus Hilt-Masking Kit cost.

Yep, definitely not getting the expensive top-of-the-line armour from the start!

4 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

The roll shouldn't have had any red dice in it so I don't know where the despair is coming from and you normally can't have threat and advantage on the same roll because they cancel (the engineer:shipwright spec is the only exception to that I'm aware of). And the protective amulet is easy enough to craft that I'm not to worried about it.

OggDude's crafting section turned my two dark side point into a despair when showing the cost of the crafting result. No threats were in the roll (the only negative stuff were the dark side points which spend like threats on the UP crafting result chart).

Anyway, the talisman got made with a couple of small benefits (slightly cheaper, slightly more difficult to spot), and it's in my current version of the character sheet (which isn't uploaded yet to MediaFire, and probably won't be until I finish sorting out the lightsabre and armour). The attached file in that post was just from OggDude's program; there's a one-time option to print out the crafted item separately before it gets added to the character sheet itself.

2 hours ago, Bellona said:

Now for some lightsabre hilt crafting ...

Three attempts, with re-forging the hilt after the first and second ones. The third one had acceptable results which I chose to keep.

# 1: http://orokos.com/roll/743632 (2 successes, 1 advantage; cost 300 cr.), 10 hrs work, re-forged

# 2: http://orokos.com/roll/743633 (1 success, 3 advantages; cost 150 cr.) , 12 hrs work, 3 advantages spent on Personalised Design, re-forged

# 3: http://orokos.com/roll/743634 (1 success, 1 triumph, 1 advantage; cost 150 cr.), 12 hrs work, 1 advantage spent on Lightweight, 1 triumph spend to carrying over hilt #2's Personalised Design

Result: 600 cr. (over 3 days?) for a double-bladed lightsabre hilt with encumbrance 1 and Personalised Design.

Attachments added, hard points = 6 (4+2 from Temple artisans):

2 hard points for Cyclic Crystal Array (2x 1,500 cr. = 3,000 cr.)

2 hard points for Ilum Crystal #1 (free) and Illum Crystal #2 (9,000 cr.)

1 hard point for Hilt-Masking Kit (price to be determined)

1 hard point saved for later use

Total lightsabre cost so far = 12,600 cr. plus free Ilum, plus Hilt-Masking Kit cost.

Yep, definitely not getting the expensive top-class armour from the start!

When you reforge a regular/double-bladed hilt it's a from scratch build that costs 50/150 instead of 100/300 credits, you don't get to "keep" personalized design from attempt 2 after you reforge it for attempt 3. You don't get to keep personalized design from attempt 2 on attempt 3 but the triumph on attempt 3 gets you a new personalized design (or something else you want because...) and spend the 3 advantage (from what would have been personalized design) on "lessons learned" or whatever it's named to get 3 extra boost dice on attempt 3 though

Craft lightsaber extra dice : 3eB 2 successes, 3 advantage
here's the extra 3 dice => 3 advantage back that you get to add to attempt 3 (which you could spend on personalized design which frees up the triumph for something else if you want). And if you have a jedi multitool it gives you 1 advantage (edit: I see from your rolls you were already adding it)

I hope I don't sound critical, I'm trying to be helpful but I rereading what I wrote I think I may have come across as critical, I went back and did a massive edit to try and fix that. I'm pretty chill when it comes to crafting but I don't seem to be able to communicate that today. My daughter was crying to be fed/changed once an hour last night so maybe it's sleep deprivation screwing up my communication today.

A double-bladed lightsabre costs 300 credits for the hilt according to the template table (3-10) on p. 85 of Endless Vigil. The "Reforging a Hilt" sidebar on p. 85 of EV says to "reduce the Material Price for the template, indicated in Table 3-10: Lightsaber Templates by half of the existing item's Price (to a minimum of 50%) ...". As far as I can tell, that means that the materials cost for a double-bladed lightsabre can't go below 150 credits.

That same side-bar has the option of spending a triumph when reforging a hilt "to transfer one of the positive results of the crafter's choice from Table 3-12: Spending [symbols] on Lightsaber Hilt Crafting (see page 87) from the old hilt to the new one, provided that trait can logically be carried over to the new item." That's what I was using when transferring the Personalised Design over from hilt #2 to hilt #3. If that's not a logical choice to transfer, then I won't do that. Instead I can use the hilt #3 crafting triumph to get Personalised Design directly off the table (without bothering with trying to transfer a crafting result from hilt #2 to hilt #3).

There was no "triumph on a failed crafting check" to trigger the Learning Experience crafting result. (Which as far as I can tell only ever gives a +1 boost anyway, so I'm not too fussed about missing out on that.)

I don't know if some of the confusion is because I currently only have access to the EV crafting rules. (My tabletop SW GM borrowed my FaD GM's Kit, and then the barely started campaign went on hiatus first because another player came down with Legionella, then because of summer holidays, so I haven't seen the kit for many months).

Regardless, I'm relatively pleased with the crafting results. Granted, the hilt is not a super-duper optimised one, but it got a few small bonuses and absolutely no drawbacks.

Any possible perceived sarcasm in the statement about not getting top-of-the-line armour was not meant as such. I was only expressing amusement at the final cost for the lightsabre plus its crystals and other attachments. After all, it was my choice to get the more expensive weapon, therefore I have absolutely no grounds for complaining about its cost!

Also, I found out why I was having trouble with inputting some of my crafting symbol results into OggDude's program. I had misunderstood part of the UI. Like you said, " you normally can't have threat and advantage on the same roll because they cancel" - which made me take a closer look and realise where I was going wrong. Problem solved!

43 minutes ago, Bellona said:

A double-bladed lightsabre costs 300 credits for the hilt according to the template table (3-10) on p. 85 of Endless Vigil. The "Reforging a Hilt" sidebar on p. 85 of EV says to "reduce the Material Price for the template, indicated in Table 3-10: Lightsaber Templates by half of the existing item's Price (to a minimum of 50%) ...". As far as I can tell, that means that the materials cost for a double-bladed lightsabre can't go below 150 credits.

That same side-bar has the option of spending a triumph when reforging a hilt "to transfer one of the positive results of the crafter's choice from Table 3-12: Spending [symbols] on Lightsaber Hilt Crafting (see page 87) from the old hilt to the new one, provided that trait can logically be carried over to the new item." That's what I was using when transferring the Personalised Design over from hilt #2 to hilt #3. If that's not a logical choice to transfer, then I won't do that. Instead I can use the hilt #3 crafting triumph to get Personalised Design directly off the table (without bothering with trying to transfer a crafting result from hilt #2 to hilt #3).

There was no "triumph on a failed crafting check" to trigger the Learning Experience crafting result. (Which as far as I can tell only ever gives a +1 boost anyway, so I'm not too fussed about missing out on that.)

I don't know if some of the confusion is because I currently only have access to the EV crafting rules. (My tabletop SW GM borrowed my FaD GM's Kit, and then the barely started campaign went on hiatus first because another player came down with Legionella, then because of summer holidays, so I haven't seen the kit for many months).

Regardless, I'm relatively pleased with the crafting results. Granted, the hilt is not a super-duper optimised one, but it got a few small bonuses and absolutely no drawbacks.

Any possible perceived sarcasm in the statement about not getting top-of-the-line armour was not meant as such. I was only expressing amusement at the final cost for the lightsabre plus its crystals and other attachments. After all, it was my choice to get the more expensive weapon, therefore I have absolutely no grounds for complaining about its cost!

Ok my memory was faulty and I was apparently munging the lightsaber and armor crafting upgrades. You're doing everything correctly. I don't think that I can blame this on lack of sleep because I made the same mistake a week or so ago. 😂

That makes secrets of the jedi and a single rank of lore much more valuable, facing a single purple with 2 yellow and 2 green and a free advantage it's pretty easy to get multiple success and 5 advantage. Took me 33 tries to get non-zero success and 6 or more advantge or atriumph and 3+ advantage (final criteria was met) with 2 failures is 200+31*50 = 1750 for a lightsaber with personalized design and fine tuned emitter, but I was rolling like crap.

What does strike me as weird is that Secrets of the Jedi and Improved Secret of the Jedi talents are - so far as I know - only available for the Padawan Survivor universal specialization. Shouldn't anyone with a Jedi spec (or who has it as a career) know stuff like that? What were the designers/developers thinking?

1 hour ago, Bellona said:

What does strike me as weird is that Secrets of the Jedi and Improved Secret of the Jedi talents are - so far as I know - only available for the Padawan Survivor universal specialization. Shouldn't anyone with a Jedi spec (or who has it as a career) know stuff like that? What were the designers/developers thinking?

I kind of thought they should be padawan talents, and presumably every classically trained jedi was a padawan at one point

In that case I would have expected to see them on the actual Padawan tree - maybe instead of Valuable Facts and either Something to Prove or Adaptable (the total value of points would be the same), or instead of one 25-point talent and one 10-point talent.

Another crafting question: are the +2 bonus hard points for a weapon locked in to the one hilt, or can one later "trade in" the hilt by re-forging a new hilt and get the +2 hard points back?

If one can't get them back, then I might re-think some choices.

2 hours ago, Bellona said:

Another crafting question: are the +2 bonus hard points for a weapon locked in to the one hilt, or can one later "trade in" the hilt by re-forging a new hilt and get the +2 hard points back?

If one can't get them back, then I might re-think some choices.

I have as planning for them to be locked in although after a year of out of game time I might unlock them. Personally I wouldn't use them until you need them for an attachment.

3 hours ago, Bellona said:

In that case I would have expected to see them on the actual Padawan tree - maybe instead of Valuable Facts and either Something to Prove or Adaptable (the total value of points would be the same), or instead of one 25-point talent and one 10-point talent.

If the group agrees on altering the padawan spec to have these talents I'd be ok with it.

Or maybe you can treat the padawan survivor spec as a jedi career spec with the career skills of the padawan spec?

20 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

If the group agrees on altering the padawan spec to have these talents I'd be ok with it.

Your game, man. Rule it however you’d like.

4 hours ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Your game, man. Rule it however you’d like.

If players really want these talents in padawan, I'd do it. Otherwise not.