2 hours ago, gennataos said:

It seems to be that swarms are a real problem, which is obvious. List building-wise, I like Deadman's and Stealth Device for the match-up. Strategy/tactics, I'm not sure what to do. What's the target trade for Rey?

You mean, like anything over 106 or her half at 53?

She's not really great at trading with those numbers.

What's that, like, 3 Vultures for her half points? Ideally, DMS should hit more than two if she goes down, which might score another kill or half on 20, which isn't much (but considering DMS is only 2 pts, dealing half on a single vulture on death trades up, so there's that.)

Her half is more than the typical Hvy fighter's full points, but less than fat Boba at full?

But you're not worrying about swarm matchups with Boba on the other side anyway (Fenn swarm is another issue, however).

____

I think there's a decent argument for Cybernetics in theory, because if you're in an aces match and behind with half on Rey and maybe half of one A-Wing left, that one late-game "hail Mary" might be what you need to get the edge back.

12 hours ago, Flurpy said:

Rey activates, shoots, gets a target lock. Bucket activates, takes target lock , gives Cloacking device and shoots.

I'm not sure that works...? We don't have blue locks, so Rey doesn't really have a lock to pass to Bucket...right?

12 hours ago, Flurpy said:

Rey activates, shoots, gets a target lock. Bucket activates, takes target lock, gives Cloacking device and shoots.

Just be sure not to pass a Cloak token to Rey if there's no room for her to decloak next round, otherwise next round you're SOL.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

But you're not worrying about swarm matchups with Boba on the other side anyway (Fenn swarm is another issue, however).

I'm way more concerned about swarms than Boba.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

You mean, like anything over 106 or her half at 53?

She's not really great at trading with those numbers.

What's that, like, 3 Vultures for her half points? Ideally, DMS should hit more than two if she goes down, which might score another kill or half on 20, which isn't much (but considering DMS is only 2 pts, dealing half on a single vulture on death trades up, so there's that.)

Her half is more than the typical Hvy fighter's full points, but less than fat Boba at full?

Yeah, no idea. Against a swarm, she's unlikely to trade evenly. The question is what she needs to trade for so her wingmates can make up the ground.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

I think there's a decent argument for Cybernetics in theory, because if you're in an aces match and behind with half on Rey and maybe half of one A-Wing left, that one late-game "hail Mary" might be what you need to get the edge back.

I've included it for that hail mary, or the extra turn of sloop/boost shenanigans...but they never come up. Ever. 😞

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I've included it for that hail mary, or the extra turn of sloop/boost shenanigans...but they never come up. Ever. 😞

So maybe the real question is whether there's another angle with more consistent utility, like Chutes or something else?

Maybe nothing and just a bigger bid at least for the points bag at time.

A Holdo thread was going on way back in February. I even made a list pretty much like @Flurpy ’s bucket list, but with zizi instead of L’ulo, as she’s harder to kill. I’ll link the Holdo thread here if you don’t mind, there were really useful ideas there.

Btw, @gennataos is right. Rey can’t pass bucket her TL as you no longer have a Blue TL Token to pass, you can only pass along the red ones.

4 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

A Holdo thread was going on way back in February. I even made a list pretty much like @Flurpy ’s bucket list, but with zizi instead of L’ulo, as she’s harder to kill. I’ll link the Holdo thread here if you don’t mind, there were really useful ideas there.

Btw, @gennataos is right. Rey can’t pass bucket her TL as you no longer have a Blue TL Token to pass, you can only pass along the red ones.

Yep, someone needs to figure out a good list for m9g8 target lock switching using Holdo.

I’ve thought about it with Finn pod or Lulo or someone. nothing I’m crazy over so far

Wow - great to see so many ideas floating around! I still can't get my head around all the Holdo shenanighans atm.

@RoockieBoy no problem putting links in here!

I played Bryant Francis' list last night and I feel like I click with it straight away. My main plus points are COVA,COVA,COVA - I lost her in round 3 but more due to my poor dial choices and Fuel Leak into Hull Breach combo. Zizi tanked everything and was a great flanker - which is how I normally played Lulo and Rey was doing Rey stuff - have to admit didn't miss Kor Sella - for me the 1 hard of Cova with R4 triggers her ability and gives you an action then allowing the Leia trigger on Rey is just "golden". I won by a tight margin - freelance slicer didn't come off but again more of an anti ace tool neither did Dead mans - I feel Contraband might be my way to go but still not sure! I played against Jendon and three tie advanced and it was a great match coming down to dice on the final term!

Keep that list building going and report in here!

I played a casual TTS game last night with Rey/L'ulo/Zizi and got kind of curb-stomped by an Imperial ordnance/bombing list. I can't say I was thinking about the bombs at all , which meant L'ulo died without doing much and also pointed to me not really considering the opposing list and/or developing a plan. I was, admittedly, fairly irritated, which I hadn't been in TTS games yet. That made me think that I'm falling back into the same competitive mindset about the game, which I'm not sure about continuing to pursue. Like, I didn't really have fun, which I think is a bummer.

53 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Like, I didn't really have fun, which I think is a bummer

I've had that a lot with Resistance the last year... Occasional high points with at least as many very low points when my only answer to some enemy mechanic is to run or some other "unfun" strategy.

Not to wreck the thread we've got going here (making Rey work is a really fun conversation), but every game I've played as scum has been fun so far, even when I lose.

I've accepted that I may have to wait to play certain factions or pilots or ships until some new upgrade or mechanic joins the game in a way that makes that faction or ship truly fun for me to play. It's okay if I can't exactly articulate what the something is, either. It's merely enough for me to admit when something's not fun, when I've tried everything available, and to find something else fun for a season.

Anyways...good luck, gents! You're making me want to give Resistance Falcon a try again!

7 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I've had that a lot with Resistance the last year... Occasional high points with at least as many very low points when my only answer to some enemy mechanic is to run or some other "unfun" strategy.

Not to wreck the thread we've got going here (making Rey work is a really fun conversation), but every game I've played as scum has been fun so far, even when I lose.

I've accepted that I may have to wait to play certain factions or pilots or ships until some new upgrade or mechanic joins the game in a way that makes that faction or ship truly fun for me to play. It's okay if I can't exactly articulate what the something is, either. It's merely enough for me to admit when something's not fun, when I've tried everything available, and to find something else fun for a season.

Anyways...good luck, gents! You're making me want to give Resistance Falcon a try again!

It really had nothing to do with the faction, but with me trying to "make something good", having competitive expectations, failing to do anything from a strategic/tactics standpoint to realize those expectations, then being irritated about it. 😛

17 minutes ago, gennataos said:

It really had nothing to do with the faction, but with me trying to "make something good", having competitive expectations, failing to do anything from a strategic/tactics standpoint to realize those expectations, then being irritated about it. 😛

Hi, I'm Dory.

(*Hi Dory*)

...and, I haven't run over a cluster mine in almost 2 years...

(.............yaaaaaaaaaayyy!!!!! Great job!)

Three test games in. Some thoughts:

1) My brain hurts. Too many variables, too many permutations too many everything. It's definitely not an easy list to fly over a day's worth of tournament games. I was tired after three games and still managed to forget a lot of triggers.

2) Some insane uses. Favourites include: Transfering a Cloak token to Rey after she shot and taking from her an unspent Focus. Slamming with Bucket, then giving Rey a disarm after she shot. Bucket flipping Disabeled Power Regulator and giving Rey an ion token to delay the Ion manouver for a round.

3) Lulu having to babysit Bucket is a problem. There was definitely a few turns where I did a worse than optimal move with Lulu to keep Bucket in range.

4) Holdo triggering at I1 isn't that bad by itself. Some turns where I couldn't get into that sweet spot for Swarm Tactics I could still grab an unspent focus and pretend Im Ronith.

5) Missiles are useless on Bucket. He's still an I1 and most of the turns he will be Slamming/Cloaking/stressing that you don't really get a change to target lock in piece.

So yeah, I am not sure what to think. Holdo + Cloak + Rey is absolutely disgusting. I'm just not sure how to make it work. Like I know what the perfect build is. If somehow tomorrow Poe got an Illicit and Crew that list would require an emergency ban.

Ideally you would want ship that's higher initiative than the rest of the list to carry Holdo and a ship that can still contribute without being just an annoyance.

So two trains of thoughts:

1) Han? Could double Falcons be a thing. But I don't know where to even begin with list building there.

2) Non Rey Holdo build. Paige feels like the perfect Holdo carrier. Some combination of Kaz, Zizi, Lulu and Paige with Paige grabbing Cloak from Kaz and just staying clocked the entire game and Trajectory simulating bombs while reloading each turn

7 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

2) Non Rey Holdo build. Paige feels like the perfect Holdo carrier. Some combination of Kaz, Zizi, Lulu and Paige with Paige grabbing Cloak from Kaz and just staying clocked the entire game and Trajectory simulating bombs while reloading each turn

There is a great Vennie build that I have seen in the Sith takers Cup - Vennie with a cloak would just be ever more mental!

@Flurpy I totally agree on the variables and the permutations of each combo - the BB8 pod is brilliant with the pre-manoeuvre shenanigans though.

As I said for now I'm sticking with Rey, Cova and Zizi (until Zizi gets nerfed into oblivion!

@gennataos I tried Rey, Lulo and Zizi for at least 10 games and just couldn't get it to work! Maybe try Talli - you have a load of points - for one game I tried snapshot Zizi and that was a lot of fun!

@Bucknife glad we have potentially inspired you!

12 minutes ago, mattcogg81 said:

There is a great Vennie build that I have seen in the Sith takers Cup - Vennie with a cloak would just be ever more mental!

@Flurpy I totally agree on the variables and the permutations of each combo - the BB8 pod is brilliant with the pre-manoeuvre shenanigans though.

As I said for now I'm sticking with Rey, Cova and Zizi (until Zizi gets nerfed into oblivion!

@gennataos I tried Rey, Lulo and Zizi for at least 10 games and just couldn't get it to work! Maybe try Talli - you have a load of points - for one game I tried snapshot Zizi and that was a lot of fun!

@Bucknife glad we have potentially inspired you!

I obviously need to try Cova with Leia. It just feeels so wrong.

49 minutes ago, mattcogg81 said:

@gennataos I tried Rey, Lulo and Zizi for at least 10 games and just couldn't get it to work! Maybe try Talli - you have a load of points - for one game I tried snapshot Zizi and that was a lot of fun!

To be clear, my reaction to the game I played last night had nothing to do with the list, everything to do with me as a player and how I've historically approached to game. I think L'ulo is 100% the correct choice for Rey + 2A, because you need that damage threat.

Inspired by all this madness, i've now managed two games of Rey/Holdo+. As I don't have a Fireball, I tried a Logistics pilot with M9-G8 and Zizi in one of the games, and Zizi + L'ulo in the second. Played against DenGuri in the first and against Grievous Swarm in the second. Both games were *very* close wins for the Resistance - talking 6 and 14 points respectively. But. These were my first wins with Resistance in a long, long time.

I enjoyed the Rey Jank A's game much more. While the Transport allowed a little more jank interaction (jam and coordinate both featured along with the M9-G8 good times), the A's are just so much more fun to fly. I had Mag Pulse Missiles on Zizi, on the chance that I could make use of passing a free lock from Rose/Rey, but it never quite happened. I frequently found it useful to swap a stress onto an A, though. Grievous managed to hunt down and wreck L'ulo in just two shots, and the Falcon was on fire, but Rey was punting droids left and right. Zizi was mostly a token bank for Rey, although contributed a hit here and there.

I will try this again, still with Rey/Zizi. I'm just not absolutely sold on a third ship, yet. Keep it going, guys; the ideas must flow.

Random thought - Mag-pulse on Zizi?

3 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

Inspired by all this madness, i've now managed two games of Rey/Holdo+. As I don't have a Fireball, I tried a Logistics pilot with M9-G8 and Zizi in one of the games, and Zizi + L'ulo in the second. Played against DenGuri in the first and against Grievous Swarm in the second. Both games were *very* close wins for the Resistance - talking 6 and 14 points respectively. But. These were my first wins with Resistance in a long, long time.

I enjoyed the Rey Jank A's game much more. While the Transport allowed a little more jank interaction (jam and coordinate both featured along with the M9-G8 good times), the A's are just so much more fun to fly. I had Mag Pulse Missiles on Zizi, on the chance that I could make use of passing a free lock from Rose/Rey, but it never quite happened. I frequently found it useful to swap a stress onto an A, though. Grievous managed to hunt down and wreck L'ulo in just two shots, and the Falcon was on fire, but Rey was punting droids left and right. Zizi was mostly a token bank for Rey, although contributed a hit here and there.

I will try this again, still with Rey/Zizi. I'm just not absolutely sold on a third ship, yet. Keep it going, guys; the ideas must flow.

Wait...passing a lock from Rose? there are no longer blue tokens for tl if thats what you mean so you can't use missiles from passing another friendly ships lock on an enemy ship. Not exactly clear if thats is indeed what you meant. You can however use M9 to use his ability twice by TL a friendly ship and passing that token to RR 2 dice per round.

4 hours ago, mattcogg81 said:

There is a great Vennie build that I have seen in the Sith takers Cup - Vennie with a cloak would just be ever more mental!

@Flurpy I totally agree on the variables and the permutations of each combo - the BB8 pod is brilliant with the pre-manoeuvre shenanigans though.

As I said for now I'm sticking with Rey, Cova and Zizi (until Zizi gets nerfed into oblivion!

@gennataos I tried Rey, Lulo and Zizi for at least 10 games and just couldn't get it to work! Maybe try Talli - you have a load of points - for one game I tried snapshot Zizi and that was a lot of fun!

@Bucknife glad we have potentially inspired you!

Vennie is what inspired Rey initially. I have used SD Vennie before and it's harder to hit. We'll now with cloak you can actually break the 6 dice minimum...well not really breaking. you can only ROLL 6 dice max. So with cloak and SD on Vennie thats 4, then say it's R3 or obstructed, so 5 dice. Then add Finn and Vennie's ability if they both trigger for 7. Can actually get 8 but not likely to happen much.

Idk how good it is, sure you can pass of cloak and maybe attack twice if you have VTG, but sounds fun to me

1 hour ago, Gokuja04 said:

Wait...passing a lock from Rose? there are no longer blue tokens for tl if thats what you mean so you can't use missiles from passing another friendly ships lock on an enemy ship.

Ah, yes, of course. There's my 1st Ed. showing, eh? I still have a strong distaste for those cardboard ship i.d. tokens. So uncivilized. Good thing I never tried to do that in-game!

@Kleeg005 so what was your exact list? Great that you got some wins in!

@Gokuja04 why did you ditch Vennie - The vtg would of been brutal - Freelance slicer as well - that would be cool?

@gennataos I think that sounds great - how much - snapshot and proton rocket - Zizi - now that's brutal - Lulo just dies far too quickly for me everytime!

@Flurpy I know but just watched some of Bryant Francis games or try it a few times - I think I am now converted!

Gold Squadron Podcast talk about @Gokuja04 list on their latest episode and it is really worth a listen! The initiative 1 swarm tactics is so good!

Here you go, @mattcogg81 . List #1, Rey's Jank Salad:

Rey (70)
Rose Tico (9)
Amilyn Holdo (8)
Finn (10)
Deadman's Switch (2)
Engine Upgrade (7)
Rey's Millennium Falcon (2)
Ship total: 108 Half Points: 54 Threshold: 6

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 2

Logistics Division Pilot (32)
M9-G8 (7)
Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 4

Total: 192

Here is list #2, Rey's Jank A's:

Rey (70)
Rose Tico (9)
Amilyn Holdo (8)
Finn (10)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Rey's Millennium Falcon (2)
Ship total: 103 Half Points: 52 Threshold: 6

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

L'ulo L'ampar (43)
Heroic (1)
Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2

Total: 198

I suspect that List #1 is actually better. L'ulo dies pretty easily and has a heck of a target painted on her; *and* the Transport has both jam and coordinate actions. But A-Wings are just so much fun to fly!

In List #1 I adapted a version of Rey with which I have a decent amount of practice, basically dropping Holdo into the slot normally occupied by Korr Sella. Again, and across many more games than just these two, I continually debate the utility of Engine Upgrade over Shield Upgrade. The title and EU allow basically infinite boosting with just a little management, and this has caught more than a few opponents off guard. But it generates less utility against the increasingly prevalent swarms in my local meta, so I sometimes save myself the points. Deadman's Switch was included as a nod to those swarms and on the understanding that generally Rey is everyone's primary target and so she will likely die. And the Transport is just pure support with the occasional tickle when variance allows - I tried to make Nodin work in the list, but he's just too expensive. This version has a fairly deep bid, as there are quite a few i5 lists running around my local.

In List #2, I acknowledged to myself that I *love* flying RZ-2's, and decided to give L'ulo another try. And Mag Pulse Missiles. Well, L'ulo was great bait, but contributed little to the damage race, and Mag Pulse never fired. But that was only one game with this iteration. I liked having the flexibility of the entire list being i5, particularly when it came to firing order. Being able to choose when in the firing order to engage with Rey, when to get the most utility out of Holdo, was great. Zizi is so good at generating tokens to donate to Rey, and A-Wings are so good at dumping stress generated by the abysmal dial/action bar of the Resistance Falcon.

I considered Heightened Perception or Sense to help Rey deal a little better with all the i6's out there, but I find that Force-management can be a problem for Rey.

I absolutely love the jank of @Gokuja04 's cloaking Falcon, but I just don't like the Fireball. Like, at all. Maybe I just need to overcome that animated prejudice and fly the thing. Because that jank is purely beautiful.

I ran this in a casual TTS game against Vonreg/Recoil/Rush. I think I like the Mag-Pulse, definitely more than Proton Rockets. I only fired it once, but it really neuters an incoming shot on Rey along with softening up a target for shots from L'ulo and Rey with the token strip. I think I'll always take Stealth Device over Shield Upgrade on Rey...worse case scenario it ends up being a free target lock from Rose, but I've found it seldom to be that worse case scenario, it almost always helps block a damage. I've been playing L'ulo for a really long time, so maybe he just click for me. I kind of treat him like Fenn Rau...if I don't think I can get IN, then I get OUT. I also have him spend a decent amount of time not stressed if he appears to be in danger. Finding routes for him which provide an obstacle for an extra defensive die, with the option to boost in if it's safe is something else I do with him a lot.

Rey (70)
Rose Tico (9)
Korr Sella (6)
Finn (10)
Stealth Device (4)
Rey’s Millennium Falcon (2)

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Crack Shot (1)
Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)
Advanced Optics (4)

L’ulo L’ampar (43)
Heroic (1)
Crack Shot (1)
Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

17 hours ago, mattcogg81 said:

@Kleeg005 so what was your exact list? Great that you got some wins in!

@Gokuja04 why did you ditch Vennie - The vtg would of been brutal - Freelance slicer as well - that would be cool?

@gennataos I think that sounds great - how much - snapshot and proton rocket - Zizi - now that's brutal - Lulo just dies far too quickly for me everytime!

@Flurpy I know but just watched some of Bryant Francis games or try it a few times - I think I am now converted!

Gold Squadron Podcast talk about @Gokuja04 list on their latest episode and it is really worth a listen! The initiative 1 swarm tactics is so good!

Because since 1.0 I have always loved putting SD on a falcon and this gives it a lot more defensive power.

Vennie can to and trust me when our game store opens back up I will bring Vennie soon and annoy the crap out of ppl lol.

also to @Kleeg005 try the m9g8 out. I want to make a Finn/Lulo list or something with Holdo so I can add a blank with Finn and RR a dice on 2 ships instead of one. Or on a bomber with VTG and do it 3 times 😁 . Trying to build something but not sure what

I’ll be playing this weekend with a different Rey list variant that I have no practice with, you guys think I’m smart but I pay money and take stuff that I haven’t really practiced with.... who’s the smart one now 😂

@Kleeg005 I really like both your builds we should start calling "Greedy Rey" as she just consumes everyone's else tokens and in the second build I also like the concept of all 5s hence I been flying @gennataos for the longest amount of time. I agree on Lulo and fly him aggressively!

@Gokuja04 had such a great build with the i1 swarm tactics and the use of cloak - that cloak token alone is just awesome - combined with stealth device - its brilliant! However the thought of Rey with an evade and two force seems great. How many times did the cloak pay off and what were the up and downs side of the build? If you were flying it again tomorrow what adjustements would you make?

I have seen Vennie builds popping up everywhere with this cloaking device now and it is looking scary!

Good job all!