I propose that Trails become the way to move to the Forge/Elder Village spaces. If on a turn you draw cards on a Border Region space, and do not draw any Trails or do not encounter a Trail due to having your turn end before encountering a drawn Trail, the only options for movement on your next turn is to move to the opposite Border Region space or go back to the Ravine/Thicket (whichever is currently adjacent to you). However, if on a turn you encounter a Trail and complete the encounter while still remaining on the space (you weren't sent to the Chasm, Lost City, etc) and your turn wasn't ended as a result of the encounter (ie, lost a Battle or Psychic Combat) then you immediately move to the adjacent Forge/Elder Village space and you immediately encounter that space. Basically, the Trail encounter takes you to the destination.

I quite like this idea, tying trails into movement in the realm. I think it could be good to also add the option to stay in the same place if you don't encounter a trail, as otherwise it would be 50/50 whether you end up in the forge or village.

This brings back Jon's earlier thought about Transformation as a potential reward (curse? Nobody ever said making deals with capricious fairies was wise!). The price for rolling the die is reduced from previous suggestions as it won't be quite so easy to get there and might take some time.

Another thought I've had is to allow characters to move from the Forge to any Hills space, and from the Village to any Woods space. This adds another bonus for having made the trek to those spaces.

Oh, and one last thought. If the Helm does end end up helping you navigate the Crypt as its discard ability, we could call it the Helm of Decrypting

Would the new character get to keep the additional strength, craft, fate, etc., or start completely new?

I like the moving to Hills/Woods. That's a fun bonus.

Helm of Decrypting!

I propose that Trails become the way to move to the Forge/Elder Village spaces. If on a turn you draw cards on a Border Region space, and do not draw any Trails or do not encounter a Trail due to having your turn end before encountering a drawn Trail, the only options for movement on your next turn is to move to the opposite Border Region space or go back to the Ravine/Thicket (whichever is currently adjacent to you). However, if on a turn you encounter a Trail and complete the encounter while still remaining on the space (you weren't sent to the Chasm, Lost City, etc) and your turn wasn't ended as a result of the encounter (ie, lost a Battle or Psychic Combat) then you immediately move to the adjacent Forge/Elder Village space and you immediately encounter that space. Basically, the Trail encounter takes you to the destination.

I quite like this idea, tying trails into movement in the realm. I think it could be good to also add the option to stay in the same place if you don't encounter a trail, as otherwise it would be 50/50 whether you end up in the forge or village.

Not necessarily 50/50. You could always move back and forth from the Thicket to the Woods side if you were sure you wanted into the Village, not the Forge.

Not necessarily 50/50. You could always move back and forth from the Thicket to the Woods side if you were sure you wanted into the Village, not the Forge.

I'm also not a fan of the idea of changing your character being a possible result - we're making getting to the village hard enough as is, adding on a third chance of that happening isn't a good idea in my opinion. Also, it's a new mechanic, and is sure to introduce lots of annoying complications - does your character just reset, losing everything? If not, what happens if something about their new character conflicts with the old? What happens if your spell limit is lower after transforming? What if your alignment changes and you can't use one of your items? What if you're a character from the woodland, and have placed some of your tokens? What if you're a toad and land there? For me, it's a weird mechanic that's more trouble than it's worth. The only easy way to make it clean would be to start completely fresh, and that's absolutely not a reward.

The Transformed result is basically the same as the Woodlands Event, except it would be permanent instead of 3 turns. Only the character card changes, you still retain everything attached to your character at the time it happens. So, all Strength/Craft tokens, Life/Fate tokens, Objects, Followers, Spells, Path, Destinies, Trophies, Gold, etc. all remain the same. Your current Strength/Craft may end up being different, because the Strength/Craft Values are different, but the Strength/Craft tokens you already have would remain the same. You may be forced to discard Spells, if your current Craft is no longer high enough to have X number of Spells. If your Alignment changed, you may be forced to ditch Alignment restricted Objects & Followers.

I agree with Cookierobber. I'm sorry sanity but the new movement model sounds complicated,doable but complicated. Transformed on the other hand is probably my last favorite card in the whole game. My group has removed it completely, the only card we never use. I would hate to see that on a board space. Of course, if the majority would like that I'll accept it but I wouldn't like it.

I'm honestly not too fussed about transformation. It was not actually my idea originally, just something someone suggested in the "what about a new realms expansion?" threads either here, or on BGG. I suppose it's why the Transformed card was one of the first casualties.

In other news I just found my first iteration of the board, with very rough instructions for the spaces. I'm just sharing them for information -

Elven Halls (now to be the Elder Village - Consult the Elders - Miss your next turn and gain your full complement of Spells, according to your current Craft, and gain a Destiny.

Dwarven Forge (now to be the Forgotten Forge) - Visit the Warsmith - Miss your next turn and gain a Legendary Object.

Rocky Road (yeah, I know...) - Stop Here - Draw 2 cards from the "Bridge" deck, even if there are already any cards on this space. On your next turn, either move to the Dwarven Forge or the Secret Path.

Secret Path - Stop Here - Draw 2 cards from the "Bridge" deck, even if there are already any cards on this space. On your next turn, either move to the Elven Halls or the Rocky Road.

The 1, 2 or 3 cards was a throwback to the original Deep Realms planned text, but it was changed in development.

I know the Transformation would be a new and challenging dynamic. And I get that it may not be the most popular. But I like it.
The Woodlands is full of all the stories about the fae. And one theme throughout all of the myths/legends/stories I've ever read about them is that no human encounters them and remains unchanged.
If it stays, I'm happy. If it goes, I understand.
Either way, house rules could always adjust whatever the players don't like. (Because, let's be honest: we're all going to do that anyway.)

I have no personal investment in the Transformation effect being a reward, I was just bringing it back up as it was mentioned early on in the expansion discussion.

What spurred me to do so (along with the suggestion that Trails lead to the destination spaces) was my concern that the Elder Village is currently shaping up to be a cheaper, faster and easier method of gaining Destinies. This is something we need to avoid. While I think it is a good reward to have at that space, we need to make sure it doesn't supersede trekking through the Woodlands with a Path to gain them.

I have no personal investment in the Transformation effect being a reward, I was just bringing it back up as it was mentioned early on in the expansion discussion.

What spurred me to do so (along with the suggestion that Trails lead to the destination spaces) was my concern that the Elder Village is currently shaping up to be a cheaper, faster and easier method of gaining Destinies. This is something we need to avoid. While I think it is a good reward to have at that space, we need to make sure it doesn't supersede trekking through the Woodlands with a Path to gain them.

Yes. And that's one of the reasons that I like the Transformation. (I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to defend the idea. )

Here are 2 other ideas for the Elder Village space, that makes gaining a Destiny there neither cheap nor easy:

The lottery method:

Roll 1 die. You may discard Fate before rolling to add +1 to the result for every Fate discarded:

1-3 - Another character of your choice gains a Destiny

4-5 - Gain your full complement of Spells

6+ - Gain a Destiny

With this method, you could gamble for the reward for no cost, or spend up to 5 Fate up your chances. Rather simple and straightforward method.

The double-down method:

Draw a Destiny card and place it facedown in your play area. The next time you visit the Meeting With Destiny space, you may gain this Destiny in addition to resolving your Path.

With this method, you still have to travel with a Path to the Meeting With Destiny space as normal, but the trip will now net you an extra bonus Destiny. With the easier Paths, you get this Destiny, and the harder ones net you two for the price of one.

I would still like to add an extra mechanic to the Trails though, even if it is something minor. Just to make them a bit more unique. Ideas?

I think the idea of discarding something to increase your roll is a good idea. However discarding fate is way better for some characters than others. Perhaps we can use the lightbound/darkbound mechanic again.

Roll 1 d6. You may discard 1 trophy and add the score to your roll.

LB: craft trophies

DB: strength trophies

Unbound and fateless not able.

1-2 Led to a sleeping glade. Miss 2 turns

3-4 Led away from the village. Move you character to the adjacent wood space.

5-6 Feast with the elves. Heal life up to your life value or fate up to your fate value.

7-8 Study with the elves. Gain your full compliment of spells.

9+ Study with the eldar. Gain a destiny.

Too much text..?

Well, another day, another card back. Again, this was designed by me and Jon - it's a bit different from people's suggestions, but is meant to play up the "border" aspect, showing the division between both the landscapes and the cultures living there.

What do you guys think?

That might be one of the best looking card backs I've seen for any expansion!

Thanks so much! I was kinda nervous how it would be received, given it's a bit different to what had previously been discussed. Also, regarding your question about the card templates - I'll probably be redoing both of those soonish, adding some more flair

Oh, that's absolutely lovely!!!

@Cookierobber - Backs look great! Top notch!

I think the idea of discarding something to increase your roll is a good idea. However discarding fate is way better for some characters than others. Perhaps we can use the lightbound/darkbound mechanic again.

Roll 1 d6. You may discard 1 trophy and add the score to your roll.
LB: craft trophies
DB: strength trophies
Unbound and fateless not able.
1-2 Led to a sleeping glade. Miss 2 turns
3-4 Led away from the village. Move you character to the adjacent wood space.
5-6 Feast with the elves. Heal life up to your life value or fate up to your fate value.
7-8 Study with the elves. Gain your full compliment of spells.
9+ Study with the eldar. Gain a destiny.

Too much text..?

I've thought about trophies as well, as it is something that all characters have equal access to. We need Destinies to be accessible, but not easy, so I like the idea of needing to give up something to even have a chance at them. Maybe a roll chart along the lines of the High Temple might work better?

You may discard up to 3 Lives, Fate or Trophies in any combination. Roll 1d6 for each discarded in this manner.

1-3 Gain a Spell

4-6 Gain +1 Strength or +1 Craft

7-9 Gain your full complement of Spells

10-12 Shortcut. Move to the Blasted Heath

13-15 Gain +1 Strength and +1 Craft

16-18 Gain a Destiny

Thinking about an extra twist on the Trails, does something like this seem reasonable?

Trails

Trails are special Places that can lead you to fortune, danger or sometimes to distant places. They can also provide escape routes from the various hidden menaces of the Lost Realms, but with a cost. Anytime you draw a Trail, you may elect to Escape down the Trail to avoid all other cards that you have just drawn. If you elect to do so, discard all other cards on the space except for the Trail. When you encounter the Trail, you must apply a -1 penalty to the result for each card discarded in this way.

Example: The Troll lands on the Wildwoods space and rolls a 6 for the number of cards to be drawn. They draw the Magma Elemental, Swamp Demon and Mystic Pathway. Not wishing to encounter such high Craft Enemies, the Troll elects to Escape down the Mystic Pathway, discarding both Enemies. When encountering the Mystic Pathway, the Troll rolls a 5, which is reduced by 2 to give a result to lose all of his light fate.

It's an interesting idea for Trails, and I will think on it. It's nearly time to think a little more about the four spaces of the realms, and the movement.encounters there, so I will jot down a few ideas soon.

Cookierobber has done a sterling job with the card backs so far, and will be looking at templates and the missing artwork next, so that is shaping up nicely.

I had a thought today, that I did not want people to think that this expansion was in any way official. I also didn't want FFG or GW to think there was any doubt about it either, so wondered whether we should subtitle the expansion to show off its roots.

The current title (graphic) is just like any other, but I think we need to add either fan or community to the title, but which? I think community has a nicer ring as it is more inclusive.

Thoughts?

Community expansion sounds more descriptive. It reflects all the hard work so many of you have put into it. A fan expansion could just be a single persons work. Can't wait to see it all finished and have a run thorough

Community expansion sounds more descriptive. It reflects all the hard work so many of you have put into it. A fan expansion could just be a single persons work. Can't wait to see it all finished and have a run thorough

A supplementary question then...

How about going the whole hog and making it a full subtitle like below -

I love the name!

Of course, I would not object in any way if Nomad Games would want to add this to the digital version...

This is definitely the name to use There are so many Talismaniacs involved in its creation I too would love to see it incorporated into the digital version.

Can't wait to try it out on the physical game too

I've been thinking that Fairie Trod may not be a great choice for this set, since characters are likely to spend a rather short period of time in the Region. The gained Path would be discarded almost immediately after gaining it. Maybe we should look at replacing it with another Event like Electrical Storm or Horse Thief?

This is definitely the name to use There are so many Talismaniacs involved in its creation I too would love to see it incorporated into the digital version.

Can't wait to try it out on the physical game too

YES!!!

And I've never seen the word Talismaniacs, so thank you, Robb 1, for the giggle.

I've been thinking that Fairie Trod may not be a great choice for this set...

We'll get to going through all of the cards later, but if it does get replaced I'd prefer it to be with a useful/semi-useful Event.

Hi Elfpuddle thanks for that but I can't claim to have thought up Talismaniacs that honour goes to Jediknight amoeba and I feel its very apt for us all.