I've been thinking of some kind of staff for the last relic (edit: forge item).

???? (maybe Moreen's (Morak's sister) staff) - weapon

Add 1 to your craft during psychic combat. After the combat draw 1 spell. If you won you gain the spell. If you lost or had a stand-off the spell backfires on you.

For some reason the discard condition didn't show on the last post.

'You may discard the staff to counter any spell cast on you, including this one'.

Perhaps I'm deadwrong with this but I thought it might be an interesting, although a bit complicated mechanic, to try. Perhaps we can leave out the draw a spell card part and just have it as a counterspell when discarded.

'Add 1 to your craft during psychic combat.

You may discard the staff to counter any spell cast on you (including the command spell)'.

Or the discard could be to prevent being transformed to a toad. We might need a Frog's eye after all...

I agree that a counter spell item would be a good idea.

The set already has one though, the ring of denial. http://www.talismanisland.com/?page_id=6915

I think a Forged item that includes discarding it to prevent being Toaded would be good. Fits thematically that the dwarves would have a counter to that, since the Fae like to toad their enemies.

Haha, thanks for the kind words everyone. Anyway, I didn't have as much time today so this one's pretty rough, but could maybe serve as a placeholder until we find some better art or I get the time to do it properly? The proportions of the card are pretty awkward though. Anyway, for the iron talisman, would it be good to change the text slightly? I think the text on all of the other talismans makes it clear that it can be used to enter the valley of fire, and it seems odd to have that be different here.

Edit: Yeah, I looked and the other talismans say, "You may only enter the Valley of Fire if you have one of the fabled Talismans". Not exactly sure how you'd word it, maybe, "You may only enter the Valley of Fire if you have one of the fabled Talismans, after which this card must be discarded"? I dunno, just a thought.

I've been thinking of some kind of staff for the last relic (edit: forge item).

???? (maybe Moreen's (Morak's sister) staff) - weapon

Add 1 to your craft during psychic combat. After the combat draw 1 spell. If you won you gain the spell. If you lost or had a stand-off the spell backfires on you.

For some reason the discard condition didn't show on the last post.

'You may discard the staff to counter any spell cast on you, including this one'.

Perhaps I'm deadwrong with this but I thought it might be an interesting, although a bit complicated mechanic, to try. Perhaps we can leave out the draw a spell card part and just have it as a counterspell when discarded.

'Add 1 to your craft during psychic combat.

You may discard the staff to counter any spell cast on you (including the command spell)'.

Or the discard could be to prevent being transformed to a toad. We might need a Frog's eye after all...

I agree that a counter spell item would be a good idea.

The set already has one though, the ring of denial. http://www.talismanisland.com/?page_id=6915

I think a Forged item that includes discarding it to prevent being Toaded would be good. Fits thematically that the dwarves would have a counter to that, since the Fae like to toad their enemies.

True. I had a feeling but couldn't see itwhile quickly looking through the posts. Nice catch.

Perhaps this 'staff' could have been stolen from Baba yoga then, and perfected by the dwarf smiths.

I also like the idea to have an item to prevent toading so I'm fine with that if others agree.

If you can and want to use anything from my expansion The enchantress' cheap tricks from the Lucky 13th competition for special items I've no problem at all with that. Those are more like one-time procective items, but very useful in a tight spot - i.e. frog's eye prevents you from turning into a toad.

I like the idea of something to protect you from being toaded, I was thinking of an item you could discard when about to be toaded to choose another character to be toaded instead.

Another question, how are we planning on having the sentinels work? Would they be normal card draws, similar to cerberus? Would they be permanent fixtures at the Elder Village and Forgotten Forge? I dislike the idea of the forge and village starting completely unguarded, maybe we could set the sentinels there at the start, and they get shuffled back into the deck once defeated, whereupon they work like cerberus, returning when drawn.

I've been thinking of some kind of staff for the last relic (edit: forge item).

???? (maybe Moreen's (Morak's sister) staff) - weapon

Add 1 to your craft during psychic combat. After the combat draw 1 spell. If you won you gain the spell. If you lost or had a stand-off the spell backfires on you.

For some reason the discard condition didn't show on the last post.

'You may discard the staff to counter any spell cast on you, including this one'.

Perhaps I'm deadwrong with this but I thought it might be an interesting, although a bit complicated mechanic, to try. Perhaps we can leave out the draw a spell card part and just have it as a counterspell when discarded.

'Add 1 to your craft during psychic combat.

You may discard the staff to counter any spell cast on you (including the command spell)'.

Or the discard could be to prevent being transformed to a toad. We might need a Frog's eye after all...

I agree that a counter spell item would be a good idea.

The set already has one though, the ring of denial. http://www.talismanisland.com/?page_id=6915

I think a Forged item that includes discarding it to prevent being Toaded would be good. Fits thematically that the dwarves would have a counter to that, since the Fae like to toad their enemies.

True. I had a feeling but couldn't see itwhile quickly looking through the posts. Nice catch.

Perhaps this 'staff' could have been stolen from Baba yoga then, and perfected by the dwarf smiths.

I also like the idea to have an item to prevent toading so I'm fine with that if others agree.

Oh, I like this Baba's Staff. Or Baba's talking skull Maybe the Skull could cancel a toading then transfer it to another character. Or it could be like a lottery effect the poor sap who rolls lowest gets toaded.

Another question, how are we planning on having the sentinels work? Would they be normal card draws, similar to cerberus? Would they be permanent fixtures at the Elder Village and Forgotten Forge? I dislike the idea of the forge and village starting completely unguarded, maybe we could set the sentinels there at the start, and they get shuffled back into the deck once defeated, whereupon they work like cerberus, returning when drawn.

If I'm right Jon wanted to make Lost Realms different from the Deep Realms, so this was done on purpose.

If you can and want to use anything from my expansion The enchantress' cheap tricks from the Lucky 13th competition for special items I've no problem at all with that. Those are more like one-time procective items, but very useful in a tight spot - i.e. frog's eye prevents you from turning into a toad.

I like the idea of something to protect you from being toaded, I was thinking of an item you could discard when about to be toaded to choose another character to be toaded instead.

This idea was mentioned earlier.

True. By me. But as I understood it was the item (frog's eye) that was disregarded, not the effect. That's why I brought it up for discussion again.

Another question, how are we planning on having the sentinels work? Would they be normal card draws, similar to cerberus? Would they be permanent fixtures at the Elder Village and Forgotten Forge? I dislike the idea of the forge and village starting completely unguarded, maybe we could set the sentinels there at the start, and they get shuffled back into the deck once defeated, whereupon they work like cerberus, returning when drawn.

If I'm right Jon wanted to make Lost Realms different from the Deep Realms, so this was done on purpose.

That doesn't actually answer the question as to how they'd work.

Great work on the Rune Shield Cookierobber! (PS - Can you please email me via the site to have a chat about the artwork?)

I've updated the page with it - http://www.talismanisland.com/?page_id=6925

Now, if you wanted to to update my meagre effort on the Iron Talisman by adding a glowing Rune...

As for the Talisman text, there is no need to add the standard blurb to the card (which is really just flavour) as it is already covered in the rulebook. I did try all sorts of wordings, but it all sounded very convoluted and actually, it wouldn't make too much sense as this Talisman is not one of the "fabled" ones, but one engineered by the Forge Masters to do the job of a Talisman but with the proviso that it returns to the Forgotten Forge.

As for the Sentinels, the idea is that the route to the Forge/Village might be guarded, or it may not be. There are certainly enough Enemies and negative encounters in the "bridge" deck as it is to provide a suitable deterrent.

An anti-Toading Object would be a cool addition, but I think perhaps that Toading happens so rarely that it might not be worth adding. It's a shame actually as there was a great piece of art for such a thing, but it wasn't CC...

It might be an idea to add something "Craft-y" or Psychic Combat related, even if it covers both Battle AND Psychic Combat like a Helm might.

Too true about toading. On the other, in our games we rarely roll the die to pass the portal of power either as we tend to str/cra 12 before going for the crown. But I'm not going to push the idea further.

Perhaps a cross then:

'automatically destroy spirits. Discard to pass the sentinel without combat'. The regular sentinel or the cataclysm gargoyle that is.

Or a dwarf helmet. Add 1 to your attack score in the hills (and highland).

Or a dwarf helmet. Add 1 to your attack score in the hills (and highland).

A DwarvenRune Helmet? Standard Helmet text, plus, "If you are about to lose your last life, you may discard the Shield to gain one life and then teleport to the Waterfall (on the Highland board)." It's less than the shield, but still much more than a helmet, and returns to the Forge.

Or, instead of the last Forge card being an object, what about a Follower?

Runesmith--follower will add 1 to any weapon or armour you carry. Miss one turn for every two objects or magic objects. When all objects are upgraded, he returns to the Forge.

So a sword with a rune would be +2 to your strenght, a flail with a rune would be 2d6+1, a helmet would save you on a 1 or 2, armour on a 2-6, etc...

Expansion and art are shaping up very well, great work. I would like to offer a minor suggestion. I like the trails cards, but suggest changing the Title name to say "Trail" rather than "Path" (i.e. Enchanted Trail, Mystic Trail, etc.) just to allow any confusion with Woodland "Path" cards and related text. Agreed it is just a minor point, but easy to fix now.

I like the dwarven flavor of the forge, perhaps the last forged item could bestow dwarven qualities, like an amulet with a special gem stone (i.e. Arkenstone). It is easy to conceive that such an item could: have strength and crafty benefits; bestow benefits based on alignment or fate; or be used to teleport to a specific location (Portal of Power, Lost City etc.) after which it returns to the Forge deck.

Just food for thought, hope it helps.

Jon: You asked for ideas for a “thing” to tie the expansion together. How about a theme of a journey to seek out the racial elders for the Highlands and Woodlands? You have are already kinda headed that way with the Dwarven Forge (the elder craftsman). Why not an elder Elf gifted in Magic located in the village? Characters could be awarded a Strength or Craft point just for reaching the space of each particular elders (Dwarf smith - +1 Strength, High Elf +1 Craft). This would provide addition incentive to make the journey, in addition to the various goodies, and it would be logical that such elders might have protectors or guardians.

Visiting a elder could be a new quest card or if you desire an alternate ending, maybe each elder could have an unique item that characters must obtain to one or the other to meet the condition of the ending (either instead of or in addition to a +1 Strength or Craft reward). It would probably have to be a revealed ending.

Again offered as food for thought, love what has evolved so far.

@Wiz - I tried the names of the Trails as they were suggested, but it really looked odd given that the keyword Trail is also on the card. I believe there would be "local" names for various trails around the place anyway, so I don't think there will be any confusion with Path cards.

The lore of the expansion will be explored in the rules document when it comes to it, and we can infer much of what you say about the story behind the realms.

Rather than take up more real estate on the spaces by trying to add too much to the forge or village, it could be possible to add in a few more cards that offer such reward to the "bridge" deck, though the Trail cards already give 6 nice bonuses if you roll high enough. As I say though, I am open to adding more cards if it is found to be necessary or desirable during beta testing of the expansion.

So, tonight's homework

We still haven't got a good name for the "bridge" deck...

It's not a Bridge and a Path deck already exists.

We can't really use Trail deck (or can we?)

Byway, Track, Way, Trackway... Perhaps something not actually related to paths and the like.

I suspect the two lower spaces will end up with names similar to those used on the 6 Trail cards...

More pondering is required

Trail deck?

Lost deck?

Wandering deck?

Nexus deck?

Wilderness deck?

Frontier deck?

Perhaps a Passage deck and then have Enchanted Passage, etc.? It goes with passing between region and back to the main board.

I think we still have 1 "Passage/Trail/etc" deck card to go to bring it to 36 cards. Seeing as how the only cards with Fatebound effects are bad, and both worse for Lightbound characters, here is a suggestion for the last card to help bring a little more balance to that situation, with an eye on Wandering Wiz suggestion of some Strength/Craft gain:

Springtide Enchantress

Stranger

Lightbound - Gain 1 Craft and take an additional turn after this one.

Darkbound - Gain 1 Strength and draw 1 card which you must encounter immediately.

If you are Unbound, your turn ends immediately.

Also thinking about the Amulet/Arkenstone suggestion from Wiz for the Forge, here is an idea that combines that with an earlier suggestion for Ancient Gold:

Arkenstone

Magic Object-Trinket

Whenever you land on the Hills, you may draw an additional Adventure card, which you must encounter. If you visit the Alchemist in the City, you may discard the Arkenstone to gain 5 Gold.

I think this ties in nicely with the Highlands gems, and gives a bonus in the traditional dwarven stomping grounds, the Hills.

Trail deck?
Lost deck?

I like the Springtide Enchantress!

@Jon - Since you are thinking about making the spaces "roll a die, draw 1, 2 or 3 cards", I suggest that the table is skewed towards more cards, rather than less.

1 - draw 1 card

2-3 - draw 2 cards

4-6 - draw 3 cards

The reason for this is we don't want it to be so easy to just waltz into the Forge/Elder Village after just facing a single card. Since movement is more straightforward and deterministic, the spaces leading there should have a higher chance of throwing a wrench in your plans of getting to the destination spaces.

@Jon - Since you are thinking about making the spaces "roll a die, draw 1, 2 or 3 cards", I suggest that the table is skewed towards more cards, rather than less.

1 - draw 1 card

2-3 - draw 2 cards

4-6 - draw 3 cards

The reason for this is we don't want it to be so easy to just waltz into the Forge/Elder Village after just facing a single card. Since movement is more straightforward and deterministic, the spaces leading there should have a higher chance of throwing a wrench in your plans of getting to the destination spaces.

I agree with that! (Heck, I'd even go for 1-4 cards. But I'm a Chaotic Elf like that.)

I like the skewed roll idea for cards to draw and the Springtide Enchantress. I also agree that keeping the Forge and Village simple and using cards for bonuses and penalties is the way to go. The number of cards in the deck feels right, perhaps slight modification of several of the cards could accomplish the same goal. I am enjoying seeing the expansion evolve.

I have to say again. This is looking fantastic.

Well, I've been working a bit with Jon, and have come up with a design for the Forge Deck:

What do you all think?

I was going to suggest the back of the cards be an anvil! Well done!