Just now, FlyAndtheMighty said:

So you would prefer we keep it down in the muck and nothing changes.

It's not the high road. It's called recognizing an unwinnable argument, and electing not to continue it.

No, I prefer you to be better. Not just say you will do better but ACTUALLY do better and apologize for how you have acted. Not just at the game and your sloppy play if that was what it was, but in the way you conduct yourselves. Not just in saying you have an attitude problem, but actively working on it. Realizing this is actually just a game and while we can do our best that doesn't mean cheating or rules lawyering to win as you have done.

5 minutes ago, FlyAndtheMighty said:

So you would prefer we keep it down in the muck and nothing changes.

It's not the high road. It's called recognizing an unwinnable argument, and electing not to continue it.

Honestly, man. This didn't start because you made a mistake on stream. It started because because you were being an arsehole on the facebook thread.

I don't speak for everyone. But I think that's what you should be apologizing for

God damnit Timathius. Can you just for once let me get in first 😂

One last piece of advice before I peace o ut.

Don’t make this about “Them” or “Us” there is evidence of some really dodgy play which was dragged up after calling out for someone to find such evidence.

The only way forward is to own that and move forwards, forming battle lines just muddies the water and raises tensions all around.

Just take a moment to realize the position you put yourself in, every game you play for a while is going to be under a microscope and people are going to prejudge you before the game even starts.

Only you and your actions can correct that, and it’s not going to be a fun easy journey if you decide to take it.

Other option is to just stay off X-Wing forums until someone new ****s up.

Just now, KrisSherriff said:

One last piece of advice before I piece out.

Don’t make this about “Them” or “Us” there is evidence of some really dodgy play which was dragged up after calling out for someone to find such evidence.

The only way forward is to own that and move forwards, forming battle lines just muddies the water and raises tensions all around.

Just take a moment to realize the position you put yourself in, every game you play for a while is going to be under a microscope and people are going to prejudge you before the game even starts.

Only you and your actions can correct that, and it’s not going to be a fun easy journey if you decide to take it.

Other option is to just stay off X-Wing forums until someone new ****s up.

Every game I play was under a microscope from the 1st one I ever played, apparently.

You don't need to lecture me on this situation. I've been in gaming long enough to know how it goes.

4 minutes ago, jokerkd said:

Honestly, man. This didn't start because you made a mistake on stream. It started because because you were being an arsehole on the facebook thread.

I don't speak for everyone. But I think that's what you should be apologizing for

I don't have anything to apologize to you or Timathius for.

12 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

I find it fascinating that podcasts keep repeating what astounding, friendly and welcoming community the X-wing players are. Then you see this pie throwing over several threads, platforms and media.

FWIW, I haven't ever really subscribed to that. I think it's mostly self-congratulatory, or, in some cases just the basic good nature of people projecting itself outward onto everyone.

IME, the "X-Wing community" is full of cliques and divisions and fawning sycophants and pack predators and prey, exactly like high school was for most of us. There are people in the X-Wing community that I think are fantastic and respect tremendously. There are people I used to think were awesome, and now have reason to no longer think so. There are people who I don't like, at all, and try to avoid. There are people whom I've not liked, and had that turned around on me, convincing me that I've been unfair to them.

I'm not blind to the fact that Vince (and I, sometimes) bring stuff down on ourselves. But, as has been the case since I was 12 years old or so, what I have never been able to stomach is bullying dog-piles. And it's always the same behavior, always the same rationalizations, always the same pack predator behavior. It's just pathetic, and there's never a justification for it.

It's not dogpiling. He just upset at large group of people in one hit

1 minute ago, FlyAndtheMighty said:

I don't have anything to apologize to you or Timathius for.

You're right, you should be apologizing to everyone else that you have attacked, made fun of, bullied, cheated, and intimidated. I couldn't care less if you tried those things with me. Because I too played warhammer competitively and even worked for GW. I have dealt with plenty of people like you in the past which is why I call you out on your BS. What does upset me is you doing that to new players, kids and on public forums that prospective players look at because that hurts the community.

2 minutes ago, Timathius said:

You're right, you should be apologizing to everyone else that you have attacked, made fun of, bullied, cheated, and intimidated. I couldn't care less if you tried those things with me. Because I too played warhammer competitively and even worked for GW. I have dealt with plenty of people like you in the past which is why I call you out on your BS. What does upset me is you doing that to new players, kids and on public forums that prospective players look at because that hurts the community.

Did you just accuse me of bullying children?

3 minutes ago, FlyAndtheMighty said:

Did you just accuse me of bullying children?

Yep. I also accused you of several other things, but im guessing we are at the "bully focuses on one thing and ignores all the other things that are right in front of his face" part of the proceedings now.

" He has a very aggressive personality and has definitely attacked people personally, little kids included, on twitch chats before. He's been silenced on GSP numerous times."

3 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Yep.

" He has a very aggressive personality and has definitely attacked people personally, little kids included, on twitch chats before. He's been silenced on GSP numerous times."

I have never knowingly said anything to a kid. That's beyond the pale. And I am far from the only person who has "been silenced on GSP numerous times". That's Grade A bull.

There is no way of knowing someone's age on Twitch.

1 minute ago, FlyAndtheMighty said:

I have never knowingly said anything to a kid. That's beyond the pale. And I am far from the only person who has "been silenced on GSP numerous times". That's Grade A bull.

There is no way of knowing someone's age on Twitch.

TBH I don't believe you. I wish I did. But your behavior on literally every forum I have encountered you on, and every story I have heard about you, makes me unable to rule it out. I cannot stress enough that maybe you should take a long hard look at how you conduct yourself.

I can 100% say that i've never bullied a kid on twitch

13 minutes ago, jokerkd said:

It's not dogpiling. He just upset at large group of people in one hit

... who then dog-piled him.

Like I said, there are always rationalizations.

Just now, jokerkd said:

I can 100% say that i've never bullied a kid on twitch

You would never know until someone randomly accused you of it in a forum thread after sitting on it for months until they got mad about something else you said.

Who, by the way, knows they don't have to prove such an inflammatory statement at the moment they made it.

4 minutes ago, Timathius said:

TBH I don't believe you. I wish I did. But your behavior on literally every forum I have encountered you on, and every story I have heard about you, makes me unable to rule it out. I cannot stress enough that maybe you should take a long hard look at how you conduct yourself.

Says the guy repeating the worst kind of **** because he's in his feelings about someone being mean in a forum.

Basically, you've just become Mean Girls while complaining about high school bullies.

3 minutes ago, FlyAndtheMighty said:

You would never know until someone randomly accused you of it in a forum thread after sitting on it for months until they got mad about something else you said.

Who, by the way, knows they don't have to prove such an inflammatory statement at the moment they made it.

I absolutley do know, because I don't bully people on twitch!

Vince, please stop now. They are not going to stop until you stop. You all feel righteous. The dog-piling does not stop until the prey stops biting back. So just stop. Don't bring Facebook here, please ... I say that with literally no regard for whether you are right or wrong.

4 minutes ago, FlyAndtheMighty said:

Says the guy repeating the worst kind of **** because he's in his feelings about someone being mean in a forum.

Basically, you've just become Mean Girls while complaining about high school bullies.

Man, I really hope you one day realize its not the world vs Vincent. There is a lot more that I could say but I haven't asked for permission from those people to quote them and they are free to tell their stories in their own time. But, as one human to another, maybe take a look at all this drama and fighting since you joined this community and think that maybe its you. I am done, please try and be better.

29 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There are people I used to think were awesome, and now have reason to no longer think so.

That's me!

More unasked-for advice for Vince, I do like the first steps you're trying to take. I'm a firm believer in giving positive reinforcement when a bad person sees they're being bad, in the hopes that their steps are true and not just saying the words to get people off his back. A lot of other people are just going to assume you're still a jerk, and you're going to sometimes fail and become that jerk. But keep at it, and you'll eventually find yourself a better person, a happier person, and the people around you will treat you like you want to be treated. It's... not going to be quick, I'm afraid. I'm rooting for you to become a valuable member of the community, instead of the aggro bro you've been so far.

Good luck!

8 minutes ago, pheaver said:

That's me!

Well, Paul, I don't know if you care or not, but you're pretty much the only double-tripper for me. Everything I've seen you say for a long time has been player- and fairness-focused, and you've used your status to say those things and make them stick even if they weren't popular. So, no, "used to admire, now don't" doesn't fit anymore. FWIW.

Vince, I’m curious if you would have extended the same grace you’re asking for to others after seeing on stream something similar done during a game. I hope this is a wake up call in more than one way. I hope change happens, truly. It might be worth reaching out to Tim directly and apologizing if you haven’t already. Let’s all strive to be better, and be the X Wing community I enjoy so much and got me to stay.

10 minutes ago, Dymond Kyng said:

Vince, I’m curious if you would have extended the same grace you’re asking for to others after seeing on stream something similar done during a game. I hope this is a wake up call in more than one way. I hope change happens, truly. It might be worth reaching out to Tim directly and apologizing if you haven’t already. Let’s all strive to be better, and be the X Wing community I enjoy so much and got me to stay.

I didn't ask for any grace. I said I know exactly what I need to do because I've been where the hounds are. It's not up to them if I play a better quality game or if I act better.

Please don't misunderstand my bright red embarrassment at having been caught up in the one situation I have always hoped never to be in for some kind of begging.

I think we finally found the exception to the "any publicity is good publicity" adage...