I feel like this is last call for nagging ffg for a sidesweep config for the LAAT?

I thought about making my own thread but this seems good to show off here, lists ships that aren't in the game yet, potential size, role, personal thoughts on likely hood they'll get on the game. Hopefully it'll be a good casual read for ya'll:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YAb5ch7KGfkRumwGbSxse-VMJne6dGeJhyoc6W6Q4tY/edit?usp=sharing

20 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

I thought about making my own thread but this seems good to show off here, lists ships that aren't in the game yet, potential size, role, personal thoughts on likely hood they'll get on the game. Hopefully it'll be a good casual read for ya'll:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YAb5ch7KGfkRumwGbSxse-VMJne6dGeJhyoc6W6Q4tY/edit?usp=sharing

Unfortunately, most ships there don't exist in the current canon.

So slap a Legends icon on the box.

Did the T-85 not get confirmed or something? Am I hallucinating?

5 hours ago, Odanan said:

Unfortunately, most ships there don't exist in the current canon.

Ehhh neither does Dash and Kyle Katarn but it hasn't stopped them from putting their ships and characters in the game. And there's a few other ships and characters I'm missing off the top of my head. Don't think canon is a firm bubble so to speak.

11 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Ehhh neither does Dash and Kyle Katarn but it hasn't stopped them from putting their ships and characters in the game. And there's a few other ships and characters I'm missing off the top of my head. Don't think canon is a firm bubble so to speak.

FFG indeed released a lot of Legends characters and ships. Heck, most Scum ships were not new canon at the time. But after 2015, they started to add ships from the Rebels show and from Sequels, slowly abandoning the Legends material.

Now in Second Edition, except for the conversion kits and the 2nd edition re-releases, everything from 2018 until now is Disney canon. So, you can see clearly the trend, can't you?

The game was under Disney material in 1.0 and have owned the Star Wars license since 2012, so I'm not going to say it's impossible.

4 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

The game was under Disney material in 1.0 and have owned the Star Wars license since 2012, so I'm not going to say it's impossible.

No, not impossible. Specially if those Legends ships return to canon somehow (many are doing this). But you need to understand: FFG doesn't need to dig Legends material anymore - they have 4 new factions with plenty of options from the movies and TV series.

It is important to mention everything Star Wars released by games, books, comics and series is considered Disney canon - so it's reasonable to assume they would need to ask some "committee" in Disney the authorization to release anything outside stablished canon

BTW, only by being mentioned in X-Wing Second Edition, characters like Kyle Katarn are now part of Disney canon, however, you can scrap all the Legends stories about these characters. Until some new source give details about them, they are just names.

By that very definition then every ship I listed is canon then and wouldn't likely see Disney stop AMG from using them.

8 hours ago, Odanan said:

No, not impossible. Specially if those Legends ships return to canon somehow (many are doing this). But you need to understand: FFG doesn't need to dig Legends material anymore - they have 4 new factions with plenty of options from the movies and TV series.

It is important to mention everything Star Wars released by games, books, comics and series is considered Disney canon - so it's reasonable to assume they would need to ask some "committee" in Disney the authorization to release anything outside stablished canon

BTW, only by being mentioned in X-Wing Second Edition, characters like Kyle Katarn are now part of Disney canon, however, you can scrap all the Legends stories about these characters. Until some new source give details about them, they are just names.

But add a ship in Star Wars XWing seems to make it Cannon

By Example Nashtah Pup was only legends when I bought Hound Tooth Pack, but now it seems to be Canon according to wookipedia, but wookipedia has only one source for this ship as Cannon : the Star Wars XWing

These is the way but the way seems to loop with itself

It seems clear that they want us to engage primarily with their new content. I suspect that is not going as well as they'd like. They are letting the Legends content hang in a sort of limbo to string us along or see if it hits a point of enough interest that they can use it to fill some role in the new stories. Kind of like a girl who keeps letting you do things for her but won't go out with you.

I also consider it disingenuous on the part of the powers-that-be to hold out any sort of pretense that they won't retcon the poodoo out of anything they presently call canon if they darn well please. It is best in my opinion to take a if-it-wasn't-on-screen-it-isn't-canon attitude and bear in my mind that even if it was on screen they'll throw it out if they want to do something that contradicts it. They seem willing to do this even before the end of the movie.

Since 2.0 every OT faction ship has been a repaint so doesn't show a trend either way regarding Legends content.

It looks like FFG made a great contribution to bring these Legends ships back to canon.

(from "Starships and Speeders" sourcebook)

Jeez, I want so badly to see the contents of page 41!

4 hours ago, Frimmel said:

It seems clear that they want us to engage primarily with their new content. I suspect that is not going as well as they'd like. They are letting the Legends content hang in a sort of limbo to string us along or see if it hits a point of enough interest that they can use it to fill some role in the new stories. Kind of like a girl who keeps letting you do things for her but won't go out with you.

I also consider it disingenuous on the part of the powers-that-be to hold out any sort of pretense that they won't retcon the poodoo out of anything they presently call canon if they darn well please. It is best in my opinion to take a if-it-wasn't-on-screen-it-isn't-canon attitude and bear in my mind that even if it was on screen they'll throw it out if they want to do something that contradicts it. They seem willing to do this even before the end of the movie.

I take it as read that they’ll change whatever they want as they damned well please, and that’s fine with me. A good deal of the old EU was downright asinine.

But I also think that they want to include some bits that had a more mainstream appeal. Thus, the Assault Gunboat makes it in.

All of this stuff goes through a licensing team or licensing manager at Disney, I’m sure. I bet sometimes it’s often a two way conversation: “Hey, toy company, we’d be really happy with you if you got the Razor Crest, Mando, and the Child into your game. We’re pushing hard on cross-marketing them in the next year or two.” “OK. Hey, we were hoping we could do the Mantis from Fallen Order. One of our guys has a great concept for it.” Sometimes things get approved, sometimes they don’t... “We’re fine with you doing the Mantis. That Yuuzhan Vong ship you asked us about last time? Yeah, we talked about it, not happening.” And I’m sure sometimes the Disney people have modifications they want to see. “The Razor Crest MUST have a shield system.” That sort of thing.

I don’t think there’s any way to tell exactly what will and won’t make it back into canon. It probably has a lot to do with what the game designers think is/was cool in Legends, and a lot to do with what Pablo Hidalgo or whoever makes these decisions over at Disney thinks is/was cool in Legends. It also has a lot to do with what will sell best, what’s most marketable. I think the biggest issue I see in the list on @KingmanHighborn ’s Google Doc is that most people have never seen most of these “possibilities,” and most of them, nobody cares about.

I think there’s a very short but substantial list of things we’re likely going to see:

Resistance: T-85. NR2 Y-Wing. Resistance B-Wing. Maybe some Ace Squadron ships (from Resistance). Maybe Rey in a T-65 (hoping hard for this!). And stuff based on as-yet unreleased material.

First Order: Ren’s TIE Whisper. Night Buzzard. TIE Dagger. The First Order Bomber. Atmospheric Assault Lander, maybe. Maybe the Outland TIE? Could be Imperial instead. But it’s getting a lot of screen time in The Mandalorian. Hard to see how they’d differentiate it from the regular TIE/ln or TIE/fo, but a neat ship ability might do it.

Empire: Outside of the TIE Hunter, maybe Krennic’s Shuttle, and maaaaaybe the Sentinel-class Landing Craft, I just don’t see any of this stuff getting made (fine with me; the EU TIE variants were mostly ridiculous). Maybe the Outland TIE, if they decide to make that an Imperial ship, and not First Order. The TIE Hunter only has a narrow shot because I see a lot of people asking about it. I really don’t think there’s any gameplay need for the Sentinel or Krennic’s Shuttle which the Lambda doesn’t already cover, but y’never know.

Rebels: The Rebels actually don’t need new ships, they just need new toys and tricks and pilots for the ships they have. But if we were going to expand... eh, there’s not a lot on that Google Doc. The old EU had a similar problem with Rebels as it did with the Empire, and that was instead of changing the wing shape on the TIE Fighter and calling it a “TIE Hunter” or a “TIE Phantom” or a “TIE Defender,” EU writers would just find a new letter of the alphabet after which to name a Rebel ship, and go from there (thus, E-Wings, K-Wings, H-Wings, etc.). Most of those designs were silly, but the E and the K seemed to stick. My advice to FFG on the Rebels? Just give us new pilot cards for the ships we have, ESPECIALLY the A-Wing.

Scum: Razor Crest. Maybe the Gauntlet. I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything else right now.

CIS: I bet we see the Ginivex and the Sheathipeade. Nothing else has enough resonance.

Republic: Maybe Palpatine’s Shuttle. Maybe the J-type Skiff. I’d be very, very surprised to see anything else on that list make it.

By my count, that’s around 20-25 new ships (depends on how many Ace Squadron ships they do, if any). That’s enough for several more waves, and this assumes that no new material brings us any more possibilities (there will be more new material, and more new possibilities).

On 11/20/2020 at 10:09 PM, KingmanHighborn said:

I thought about making my own thread but this seems good to show off here, lists ships that aren't in the game yet, potential size, role, personal thoughts on likely hood they'll get on the game. Hopefully it'll be a good casual read for ya'll:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YAb5ch7KGfkRumwGbSxse-VMJne6dGeJhyoc6W6Q4tY/edit?usp=sharing

On 11/22/2020 at 11:30 AM, Odanan said:

Now in Second Edition, except for the conversion kits and the 2nd edition re-releases, everything from 2018 until now is Disney canon. So, you can see clearly the trend, can't you?

Maybe hindsight is 20/20, but FFG should have bucked that trend.

Especially for Rebels, Scum and Empire, many of those ships could have been new 2.0 releases to keep folks engaged with their factions. Given that many models have not made the jump into 2.0 packaging, "same but different" might have be a good compromise.

New to 2.0? Sentinel shuttle for you, or get an old 1.0 Lambda and a CK.

Veteran of 1.0? Your old Lambda works fine with a CK, but how about a shiny new Sentinel-class, since you are unlikely to rebuy a Lambda re-box. . .

Same for the TIE Adv and the TIE Avenger. . .etc.

7 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

A good deal of the old EU was downright asinine.

Out of curiosity how much of the old EU did you read? It seems like every time the old EU comes up there is always somebody there ready to trash it. Frankly I think that combined with the same tendency regarding the prequels really served to misinform the creators with regards to what the audience wanted from the sequels.

I'm pretty sure one of those highly condemned mis-steps was bringing Palpatine back from the dead. Perhaps there springs the hope for more return of old EU favorites?

At this point I think the percentage of good EU content is on par with nu canon films.

44 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Out of curiosity how much of the old EU did you read? It seems like every time the old EU comes up there is always somebody there ready to trash it. Frankly I think that combined with the same tendency regarding the prequels really served to misinform the creators with regards to what the audience wanted from the sequels.

I'm pretty sure one of those highly condemned mis-steps was bringing Palpatine back from the dead. Perhaps there springs the hope for more return of old EU favorites?

Like Palpatine returning from the dead again?

57 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I think there’s a very short but substantial list of things we’re likely going to see:

Resistance: T-85. NR2 Y-Wing. Resistance B-Wing. Maybe some Ace Squadron ships (from Resistance). Maybe Rey in a T-65 (hoping hard for this!). And stuff based on as-yet unreleased material.

First Order: Ren’s TIE Whisper. Night Buzzard. TIE Dagger. The First Order Bomber. Atmospheric Assault Lander, maybe. Maybe the Outland TIE? Could be Imperial instead. But it’s getting a lot of screen time in The Mandalorian. Hard to see how they’d differentiate it from the regular TIE/ln or TIE/fo, but a neat ship ability might do it.

Empire: Outside of the TIE Hunter, maybe Krennic’s Shuttle, and maaaaaybe the Sentinel-class Landing Craft, I just don’t see any of this stuff getting made (fine with me; the EU TIE variants were mostly ridiculous). Maybe the Outland TIE, if they decide to make that an Imperial ship, and not First Order. The TIE Hunter only has a narrow shot because I see a lot of people asking about it. I really don’t think there’s any gameplay need for the Sentinel or Krennic’s Shuttle which the Lambda doesn’t already cover, but y’never know.

Rebels: The Rebels actually don’t need new ships, they just need new toys and tricks and pilots for the ships they have. But if we were going to expand... eh, there’s not a lot on that Google Doc. The old EU had a similar problem with Rebels as it did with the Empire, and that was instead of changing the wing shape on the TIE Fighter and calling it a “TIE Hunter” or a “TIE Phantom” or a “TIE Defender,” EU writers would just find a new letter of the alphabet after which to name a Rebel ship, and go from there (thus, E-Wings, K-Wings, H-Wings, etc.). Most of those designs were silly, but the E and the K seemed to stick. My advice to FFG on the Rebels? Just give us new pilot cards for the ships we have, ESPECIALLY the A-Wing.

Scum: Razor Crest. Maybe the Gauntlet. I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything else right now.

CIS: I bet we see the Ginivex and the Sheathipeade. Nothing else has enough resonance.

Republic: Maybe Palpatine’s Shuttle. Maybe the J-type Skiff. I’d be very, very surprised to see anything else on that list make it.

By my count, that’s around 20-25 new ships (depends on how many Ace Squadron ships they do, if any). That’s enough for several more waves, and this assumes that no new material brings us any more possibilities (there will be more new material, and more new possibilities).

Highlights from my list:

On 2/27/2019 at 7:24 PM, Odanan said:

So, let's guess the most likely NEW ships to feature in the game. (no Legends ships here)

REPUBLIC:

• Clone Z-95 starfighter (dual torpedo slots, shield and faster speeds can make it different of the Torrent. With the clones Killer , Warthog and Hawk as named pilots)
• Theta-class T-2c shuttle , Nu-class transport , or some other shuttle (there are plenty) OR
• J-type Star Skiff (just imagine how beautiful this would look on the table) - with some possible shenanigans with the Handmaidens

SEPARATISTS:

• Rogue-class starfighter (maybe with Scum version too)
• Sheathipede-class transport shuttle
• Zenuas 33 Umbaran starfighter (obscure, but looks super cool - and may have some movement shenanigans)
• Ginivex-class fanblade starfighter (weird and ugly, but with Ventress pilot)

SCUM:

• Gauntlet fighter (almost into epic size, but mechanically fits better in the large base)
• Razor Crest from The Mandalorian series ( how the heck this is not in the game yet?! )

EMPIRE:

• Delta-class Shuttle (awkward model and too similar with the Lambda in role?)

REBELS:

• S-161 XL (title: Stinger Mantis ) from the game The Fallen Order. Not exactly Rebel (kind of former Republic? Scum?), but there aren't many options...

RESISTANCE:

• T-85 X-Wing (with an exclusive mod that gives cloaking?)
• Fireball and other "racing" ships from The Resistance series ( Black Ace is awesome). There are at least 6 other ships in the Ace Squadron and oh, they would look awesome in a X-Wing spin-off about racing (totally compatible with the main game).
• Y-Wing BTA-NR2 (yay! Y-Wings for everybody!).
• Resistance B-Wing (we don't know much about this ship, except for the fact it's very ugly).
• WTK-85A transport (title: Bestoon Legacy ) - is it Scum? was this ship originally piloted by Rey's parents? Well, has at least one First Order (Ochi) and one Resistance (Poe) pilot. More info released.

FIRST ORDER:

• TIE Whisper Starfighter (a lot like the FO Special Forces TIE - turret and all - with the Jam action, maybe more agile and with 1 less shield?)
• TIE Whisper Interceptor (from the Ep. IX traile r) - this is Kylo's TIE Whisper, with wings of the TIE/vn (it has a turret and the same rear window of the TIE/sf - maybe indicating a gunner?). 3 frontal attack + "Heavy Weapons Turret" = wow!
• TIE Dagger / Sith TIE Fighter (could be Attack 2 + cannon slot to differentiate it from the other FO TIEs)
• First Order TIE Bomber (from 2nd season of The Resistance and comics - looks boss and would be useful for the FO)
• Oubliette-class transport , title: Night Buzzard (the ship of the Knights of Ren in Ep. IX).

~20 not-epic ship seems accurate.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Rebels: The Rebels actually don’t need new ships,

They bloody well need Rogue One about as badly as Scum needs the Razorcrest, and for all the same reasons.

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

They bloody well need Rogue One about as badly as Scum needs the Razorcrest, and for all the same reasons.

Rogue One, the stolen Imperial Transport ship? I mean, sure, but I think it would suck in combat.

I’d be maybe more interested to see the stolen Lambda shuttle Tyderium from RotJ, but I dunno that the Rebs have a burning need for either. They have very decent small, medium, and large crew carriers (Sheathipeade, U-Wing, YT-1300, to name one of each). But whatever, I’m mostly down for new ships, as long as they aren’t too goofy, as a good chunk of the EU was (seriously, if I ever see a Yuuzhan Vong anything, I’m out).

And Scum doesn’t *need* the Razor Crest. I just want Scum to *have* the Razor Crest.

15 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Rogue One, the stolen Imperial Transport ship? I mean, sure, but I think it would suck in combat.

I’d be maybe more interested to see the stolen Lambda shuttle Tyderium from RotJ, but I dunno that the Rebs have a burning need for either . They have very decent small, medium, and large crew carriers (Sheathipeade, U-Wing, YT-1300, to name one of each). But whatever, I’m mostly down for new ships, as long as they aren’t too goofy, as a good chunk of the EU was (seriously, if I ever see a Yuuzhan Vong anything, I’m out).

A. Support ships are nice.

B. The Lambda is the same ship style and never saw on-screen combat but seems to work fine.

C. As has been discussed elsewhere, FFG/AMG needs to start thinking more along the lines of "We make toy SW spaceships for a great game" than "Our game is perfect as-is and thus doesn't need another ship like that."

So yeah, Shuttle Tydirium, too. Because you said it yourself:

Quote

And Scum doesn’t *need* the Razor Crest. I just want Scum to *have* the Razor Crest.

Heck, people are running polls about what folks want. The devs just need to peek at the wish list. Making stuff for fanboys/girls to buy reeeeeaaaaaallllyy shouldn't be tricky.