1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

That would definitely make bidding an interesting prospect. Whoever won the bid would be forced to be aggressive, which is probably preferrable to letting them use superior repositioning the avoid combat all game.

Even if the bid was given to the opponent the first time any ship gave up half points, you would very much change the bidding game.

Definitely agree with the points being assigned when the first ship goes to half points. Prevents making hard-to-kill aces even bigger points fortresses than they are.

Edit: I should also say that I don't want to give the bid away immediately, I need the opportunity to table a podcaster to still live without having to put random upgrades on things to exactly hit 200.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

What if the bid was immediately added to the points destroyed? Meaning a list with a bid can never win 200-0?

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

That would definitely make bidding an interesting prospect. Whoever won the bid would be forced to be aggressive, which is probably preferrable to letting them use superior repositioning the avoid combat all game.

Even if the bid was given to the opponent the first time any ship gave up half points, you would very much change the bidding game.

Huh.....has this been thought of before? This is the first I've ever heard of this suggestion and I really like it. Adds some more depth to the bid decision for certain archetypes. Can anyone think of any reason not to highly consider this? Could it be abused or broken in any way that gives us cause to pause?

5 hours ago, RStan said:

Can anyone think of any reason not to highly consider this?

Because Aces that move last are my playstyle!!!!!

Actual response...seems like an ok idea.

Though I don't think the current bid rules are badly in need of a change.

We haven't seen to much in the way of single ship point fortresses so far but that could be due for a change very soon as people start to look at 2.0 a little more like 1.0 again.

I can almost hear a # of players thinking to themselves....what if my Whisper was slightly overweight? ( Kylo in the distance ).

11 minutes ago, RStan said:

Huh.....has this been thought of before? This is the first I've ever heard of this suggestion and I really like it. Adds some more depth to the bid decision for certain archetypes. Can anyone think of any reason not to highly consider this? Could it be abused or broken in any way that gives us cause to pause?

I don't know. I had the idea while listening to Kelvan on the Mynocks. I'll go back to see what exactly he said.

11 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

REEEEEE!!!!!!!!! Because Aces that move last are my playstyle REEEEEEE!!!!!!

Do you actually know anyone that talks like that? I mean "remotely" like that. I get that you are exaggerating.

And that the Krayt way of arguing is to pretend fictitious mad people play Xwing...

6 hours ago, Darth Seridur said:

Do you actually know anyone that talks like that? I mean "remotely" like that. I get that you are exaggerating.

 And that the Krayt way of arguing is to pretend fictitious mad people play Xwing...

Yes. Moving first can seem hard.

6 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Yes

You have my deepest sympathies.

Have you tried emigrating from the US?

The context is that Dee commented at 1:23:40 that a bid is safe from half points. But I didn't hear them saying it specifically at a 2x speed.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The context is that Dee commented at 1:23:40 that a bid is safe from half points. But I didn't hear them saying it specifically at a 2x speed.

I already planned on listening to the Mynocks today anyway, so I'll make sure I'm paying extra attention around that time.

7 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

You have my deepest sympathies.

Its ok. 9 out of 10 X-Wing players are nice people regardless of geography.

7 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Have you tried emigrating from the US?

10 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Do you actually know anyone that talks like that? I mean "remotely" like that. I get that you are exaggerating.

And that the Krayt way of arguing is to pretend fictitious mad people play Xwing...

It's more of a way to call these people autistic.

3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its ok. 9 out of 10 X-Wing players are nice people regardless of geography.

I agree.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The context is that Dee commented at 1:23:40 that a bid is safe from half points. But I didn't hear them saying it specifically at a 2x speed.

The bid being safe from half points is solid, but usually not something you target unless there are very specific meta conditions. Otherwise, the fact that whatever bid you happen to have does that is a bonus.

10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

The bid being safe from half points is solid, but usually not something you target unless there are very specific meta conditions. Otherwise, the fact that whatever bid you happen to have does that is a bonus.

I think the issue right now is that it's a double good. It makes your list better, and it makes you hold onto points more, which matters most in a list that likes to move last, which can make the most use of point bunkering by escaping shots.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

Can anyone think of any reason not to highly consider this?

My usual response to a question like this is to not respond, because it's a design decision that's out of our hands and I don't see the point. If it's an alternate rules set that someone wants to use for their event, go them!

Hopefully, the design that's already in place, points adjustments, will take care of the giant bids, while also not getting restrictive with list building.

I actually found the fact that bids are effectively free points for you (unless you get entirely destroyed) sorta weird from the beginning. It makes just as much sense to simply count points remaining on the board as it does to count "points destroyed" (and if games are good that should be less counting most of the time too). If it's so important to go into a game with player order choice, I think it's a completely fair trade-off to start effectively somewhat "down" on points, which is roughly equivalent and simpler way of implementing what is described above. And if you count points remaining instead of points destroyed the stupid app rounding actually makes some sense too

The double-advantage of bids right now (pick player order AND deny opponent those points) is part of what amplifies the value of bids over spending points on a squad. I think most folks agree that large bids are an indication of the design/balance going awry.

I do have to say that if Advanced Sensors and Supernatural Reflexes went away, I expect giant bids would be quite a bit reduced. Those cards magnify the advantage of moving last in a big way. They allow carriers of those cards to out perform equivalent points of efficiency because of the extreme responsiveness enabled. Consequently, ships that have those cards care less about low initiative ships and care a lot more about ships with matching initiative, hence the big bids.

5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I do have to say that if Advanced Sensors and Supernatural Reflexes went away

Indeed my preferred solution to this is just to lessen the advantage of higher initiative; I was a bit surprised when they didn't just entirely eliminate "initiative/PS-killing" in 2.0 to be honest as that would have helped a little bit. But that seems a much less likely change to make than just to tournament scoring, so lessening the scoring benefit of large bids seems more likely at this point.

Granted if they just ban A/S and Supernatural from most tourney formats maybe that's enough too. That said, Jesper's squad didn't have either and he seemed to do okay

5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I do have to say that if Advanced Sensors and Supernatural Reflexes went away, I expect giant bids would be quite a bit reduced. Those cards magnify the advantage of moving last in a big way. They allow carriers of those cards to out perform equivalent points of efficiency because of the extreme responsiveness enabled. Consequently, ships that have those cards care less about low initiative ships and care a lot more about ships with matching initiative, hence the big bids.

It would also lessen the need for big bids with I5 and I6 ships that don’t have access to movement options like that.

11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I do have to say that if Advanced Sensors and Supernatural Reflexes went away, I expect giant bids would be quite a bit reduced. Those cards magnify the advantage of moving last in a big way. They allow carriers of those cards to out perform equivalent points of efficiency because of the extreme responsiveness enabled. Consequently, ships that have those cards care less about low initiative ships and care a lot more about ships with matching initiative, hence the big bids.

Whether Vader crew / Old Teroch trigger before or after Soontir / Guri gain their focus token, too.

24 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Granted if they just ban A/S and Supernatural from most tourney formats maybe that's enough too. That said, Jesper's squad didn't have either and he seemed to do okay

I'd be 100% in support of a total ban. I expect Jesper's bid was as much to deny the advantage of those cards as it was to move reactively himself.

27 minutes ago, punkUser said:

That said, Jesper's squad didn't have either and he seemed to do okay

11 minutes ago, svelok said:

Whether Vader crew / Old Teroch trigger before or after Soontir / Guri gain their focus token, too.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I'd be 100% in support of a total ban. I expect Jesper's bid was as much to deny the advantage of those cards as it was to move reactively himself.

My Fenn/Old T/Palob bid came about because I didn't really require anything more, but I stuck with a bigger bid because I wanted the token theft to happen after other lists gained theirs. Moving second was just a bonus.

37 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I do have to say that if Advanced Sensors and Supernatural Reflexes went away, I expect giant bids would be quite a bit reduced. Those cards magnify the advantage of moving last in a big way. They allow carriers of those cards to out perform equivalent points of efficiency because of the extreme responsiveness enabled. Consequently, ships that have those cards care less about low initiative ships and care a lot more about ships with matching initiative, hence the big bids.

This.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'd be 100% in support of a total ban. I expect Jesper's bid was as much to deny the advantage of those cards as it was to move reactively himself.

We talked a bit, and he's welcome to jump in or correct, but mostly, he picked the ships he wanted, and filled in the upgrades he wanted, and was left with that bid.

It wasn't a "OMG, GOTTA BE 15 POINTS" kind of thing.

7 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

he picked the ships he wanted, and filled in the upgrades he wanted, and was left with that bid.

This is said more clearly but its what i was trying to say a couple pages back, that people take stuff that doesnt always help much more than a bid at the moment. That could change fast.

8 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

This.

We talked a bit, and he's welcome to jump in or correct, but mostly, he picked the ships he wanted, and filled in the upgrades he wanted, and was left with that bid.

It wasn't a "OMG, GOTTA BE 15 POINTS" kind of thing.

Most of the STL bid stuff is basically that, not really on purpose. Boba/Guri, Boba/Fenn doesn’t need a lot of stuff. Vader and 4 academies (for SE format) builds itself to 185, etc.