37 minutes ago, gennataos said:

P.S. - Please encourage anyone you know who thinks scum Fenn Rau is bad to shout it from the rooftops. DownDownDown! I agree! I want to give up less than 30 half points with Fearless Fenn. If we work together, we can accomplish this goal!

fEnN iS BaD bEcAuSE hE's mOrE eXpeNSiVe tHan iN FIrSt eDItion.

5 minutes ago, jagsba said:

fEnN iS BaD bEcAuSE hE's mOrE eXpeNSiVe tHan iN FIrSt eDItion.

He WaS also BaD iN fIrSt EdItOn ToO, I Couldn't wIn A gAmE!!!1!!11!

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Yea and that Kavil cant lean into medium base boost to just always lock stuff.

If people used more efficiency lists during swiss than yea bids become less valuable.

But they dont. And they wont.

So bid its fine.

That's a hugely important point. If everybody continues to focus on ships that have a huge benefit to go last, people will bid to make sure it doesn't happen. This suggest either 1.) Not a lot of players are taking efficiency lists seriously to try and make them work, or 2.) Efficiency lists are not efficient enough compared to maneuver lists.

I suspect it's situation 1, and we're all the Dutch buying tulips.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

That's a hugely important point. If everybody continues to focus on shios that have a huge benefit to go last, people will bid to make sure it doesn't happen. This suggest either 1.) Not a lot of players are taking efficiency lists seriously to try and make them work, or 2.) Efficiency lists are not efficient enough compared to maneuver lists.

I suspect it's situation 1, and we're all the Dutch buying tulips.

Just look at what made the cut at crossroads. Efficency can bully things.

“3 Ship Swiss” is very real.

What's an efficient list right now?

4B1Z? Dreaswarm? Jonus and friends?

Hi @Sunitsa

13 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Just look at what made the cut at crossroads. Efficency can bully things.

“3 Ship Swiss” is very real.

Juke to force faceup cards is very good. Especially if you want mileage out of your evade on both offense and defense.

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Just look at what made the cut at crossroads. Efficency can bully things.

“3 Ship Swiss” is very real.

I counted on the "3 Ship Swiss" at Crossroads to take over knowing that I felt very comfortable in those matchups having Sloane. I had a few closer games than I expected, but overall still a success on that prediction. Just looking at the Top 16 of Crossroads, 4 of the players had 4 ships and 4 other players had 5 ships. That's 50% of the top cut with 4+ ships overall. Efficiency is available and able to win, mostly via Bombers, Sloane, or Dreaswarms.

12 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

What's an efficient list right now?

4B1Z? Dreaswarm? Jonus and friends?

Drea Swarm, Sloane Swarm, Tie Swarm, Barrage bombers

10 minutes ago, RStan said:

I counted on the "3 Ship Swiss" at Crossroads to take over knowing that I felt very comfortable in those matchups having Sloane. I had a few closer games than I expected, but overall still a success on that prediction. Just looking at the Top 16 of Crossroads, 4 of the players had 4 ships and 4 other players had 5 ships. That's 50% of the top cut with 4+ ships overall. Efficiency is available and able to win, mostly via Bombers, Sloane, or Dreaswarms.

To be fair, Sloane and Drea swarms (the Quad version) are as much about control as efficiency.

2 minutes ago, SmittLoaf said:

Drea Swarm, Sloane Swarm, Tie Swarm, Barrage bombers

Nobody has seen the TIE Swarm anywhere. The combination of Boba, Fangs, and Punishers high in the meta is scaring them away.

19 minutes ago, RStan said:

I counted on the "3 Ship Swiss" at Crossroads to take over knowing that I felt very comfortable in those matchups having Sloane. I had a few closer games than I expected, but overall still a success on that prediction. Just looking at the Top 16 of Crossroads, 4 of the players had 4 ships and 4 other players had 5 ships. That's 50% of the top cut with 4+ ships overall. Efficiency is available and able to win, mostly via Bombers, Sloane, or Dreaswarms.

Coincidentally, and maybe tangentially, I counted on a heavy Imperial presence, including Sloane swarms, Redline and phantoms. Given Jespers performance at Coruscant and my own experience against various swarms prior to Coruscant, I was confident that token removal and highly maneuverable ships could overcome that efficiency. Like you, @RStan, that theory seemed to prove out as well. I found less swarms than I’d have thought I would, though.

The meta is in an interesting place. Except for Rebels. They seem hosed or there just hasn’t been enough exploration therein.

When y'all say efficiency lists, is that just code for swarms?

Because a lot of those named aces showing up on top seem pretty efficient (as in good for their points).

10 minutes ago, jagsba said:

When y'all say efficiency lists, is that just code for swarms?

Because a lot of those named aces showing up on top seem pretty efficient (as in good for their points).

Can be a swarm but it doesn't have to be, just generics that by not paying for a high I and/or a pilot talent allow you to fit an extra (or more) copy of them in so you're throwing enough dice, soaking enough damage, and casting enough arcs to overcome the more specialized lists advantage

All swarms are efficiency lists but not all efficiency lists are swarms

26 minutes ago, gennataos said:

The meta is in an interesting place. Except for Rebels. They seem hosed or there just hasn’t been enough exploration therein.

It does seem to me that games are being more decided by play mistakes, rather than matchups.

The meta is definitely still evolving. We will see if it will truly settle, but by that time we will be hit by the first rebalancing anyway and everything will be in the flux again. I love it

Anyways the way to go is probably to pick a reasonably efficient list which fits your play style and practice the **** of it.. Did I mention I love 2.0?

4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Can be a swarm but it doesn't have to be, just generics that by not paying for a high I and/or a pilot talent allow you to fit an extra (or more) copy of them in so you're throwing enough dice, soaking enough damage, and casting enough arcs to overcome the more specialized lists advantage

All swarms are efficiency lists but not all efficiency lists are swarms

Sure, but you could just be saying generics. I get that that is what has stuck as the catch all phrase and I'm not going to change the lexicon by making this point, but I think calling all ships of that type 'efficient' is a bit of a misnomer because it assumes that numbers = efficiency when very often that is not the case.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

To be fair, Sloane and Drea swarms (the Quad version) are as much about control as efficiency.

2e R3A2 when?

37 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

It does seem to me that games are being more decided by play mistakes, rather than matchups.

The meta is definitely still evolving. We will see if it will truly settle, but by that time we will be hit by the first rebalancing anyway and everything will be in the flux again. I love it

Anyways the way to go is probably to pick a reasonably efficient list which fits your play style and practice the **** of it.. Did I mention I love 2.0?

I agree with the 2.0 love! That said, I’d argue right now, unless you have a big event coming up, just play everything and see how it all feels. I have nothing until maybe January, so I’m going to play a ton of bad Rebel stuff for a long while.

I felt like my list had pretty good game against Sloane at Crossroads, didn't get to really play against her though (my only opponent that had Sloane was the one where I blew up that ship on round 3).

Couldn't beat @SmittLoaf but came real close.

I don't really own any rebel, actually I only own Imperial, but I'm going to try to make a point to build lists that allow me to play every single Imperial ship I own a few times and use this down period to shore up my weak points. I only have ever flown Aces or Aces+Support so this is a great opportunity to fly some efficiency lists.

2 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:

Couldn't beat @SmittLoaf but came real close.

Dude that was a **** of a game. So much fun.

5 hours ago, jagsba said:

Sure, but you could just be saying generics. I get that that is what has stuck as the catch all phrase and I'm not going to change the lexicon by making this point, but I think calling all ships of that type 'efficient' is a bit of a misnomer because it assumes that numbers = efficiency when very often that is not the case.

There were a number of efficiency lists that had named pilots in the cut at Crossroads IMO. Anything that relies on mostly bare ship chassis and few mods is efficiency. Redline with just Proton Torpedoes is 53 points and highly efficient. Phantoms with just Juke could also be there. As soon as you start loading up mods onto ships, it isn't efficient anymore and becomes an ace or a fat whatever.

31 minutes ago, SmittLoaf said:

Dude that was a **** of a game. So much fun.

I was talking about it on the ride back, I think the points advantage switched at least 4 times that game.

What if the bid was immediately added to the points destroyed? Meaning a list with a bid can never win 200-0?

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

What if the bid was immediately added to the points destroyed? Meaning a list with a bid can never win 200-0?

That would definitely make bidding an interesting prospect. Whoever won the bid would be forced to be aggressive, which is probably preferrable to letting them use superior repositioning the avoid combat all game.

Even if the bid was given to the opponent the first time any ship gave up half points, you would very much change the bidding game.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

What if the bid was immediately added to the points destroyed? Meaning a list with a bid can never win 200-0?

i'd been thinking on this note as well, initially just thinking "Instead of Final Salvo, whomever chose first player (so bigger bid) loses"

I know every now and again when I've won a game the other person objects when I say XX-200, saying "My list was only 196" and I have to explain that it doesn't work that way: I typically give the example squad of Soontir and a bid as a squad that would be unironically good if it worked that way.

Why not just go fully in that direction? Lose your bid when the first ship goes to half/at Start of game?