3 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

It's more of a way to call these people autistic.

Which is staggeringly ableist, of course.

But I am sure it's fine because they "don't mean it that way" or "it's just memes".

SIGH

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

I do have to say that if Advanced Sensors and Supernatural Reflexes went away, I expect giant bids would be quite a bit reduced. Those cards magnify the advantage of moving last in a big way. They allow carriers of those cards to out perform equivalent points of efficiency because of the extreme responsiveness enabled. Consequently, ships that have those cards care less about low initiative ships and care a lot more about ships with matching initiative, hence the big bids.

Would anyone be opposed to these upgrades scaling in cost according to init? Like, they are easily 10-20 points more valuable at init 6 than init 1.

16 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Most of the STL bid stuff is basically that, not really on purpose. Boba/Guri, Boba/Fenn doesn’t need a lot of stuff. Vader and 4 academies (for SE format) builds itself to 185, etc.

So those situations are somewhat easier to solve because they are fairly indisputably cases where those ships should just cost more then. If you can be competitive with lists that cost 15+ points less regardless of initiative order, they're simply too cheap.

Of course there's some amount of covariance in list building so it's not always that simple, but there's no particularly dominant synergies in the 2 ship builds we've seen so far.

8 minutes ago, punkUser said:

So those situations are somewhat easier to solve because they are fairly indisputably cases where those ships should just cost more then. If you can be competitive with lists that cost 15+ points less regardless of initiative order, they're simply too cheap.

Of course there's some amount of covariance in list building so it's not always that simple, but there's no particularly dominant synergies in the 2 ship builds we've seen so far.

At this early stage its probably more related to what most of the rest of the field has decided to bring to the first few 2.0 tournaments. The lists are all over the place.

3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

At this early stage its probably more related to what most of the rest of the field has decided to bring to the first few 2.0 tournaments. The lists are all over the place.

Of course, and "everyone is bad". But that just puts large error bars on any conclusions we might feel like drawing really... Definitely worth keeping in mind, but there's probably enough data points of people doing very well with large bids to start to point at a few outliers. Certainly not at the freak out guaranteed things need changes level at this point, but interesting to discuss none-the-less if people can keep things in perspective.

3 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Of course, and "everyone is bad". But that just puts large error bars on any conclusions we might feel like drawing really... Definitely worth keeping in mind, but there's probably enough data points of people doing very well with large bids to start to point at a few outliers.

Thats fair. Most of this will start to make sense around December/Jan I imagine. But then we switch to Hyperspace format and never think about Extended again.

13 minutes ago, punkUser said:

So those situations are somewhat easier to solve because they are fairly indisputably cases where those ships should just cost more then. If you can be competitive with lists that cost 15+ points less regardless of initiative order, they're simply too cheap.

I'm not sure about that. A 20 point bid has 90% of the stuff that a 0 point bid does. It doesn't take that many things to go right for a squad to be 10% more effective than another squad. One would expect a bit of an advantage over time for having 10% more stuff, but not a massive one.

11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm not sure about that. A 20 point bid has 90% of the stuff that a 0 point bid does. It doesn't take that many things to go right for a squad to be 10% more effective than another squad. One would expect a bit of an advantage over time for having 10% more stuff, but not a massive one.

I still maintain that 180-190 pts isnt necessarily a crazy bid for 2.0.

If we regularly see lists performing well in the 170-180 then yea there might be a problem...

What did people think would happen when VI and Adaptability was removed?

3 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

It's more of a way to call these people autistic.

21 minutes ago, Aaron Foss said:

Which is staggeringly ableist, of course.

But I am sure it's fine because they "don't mean it that way" or "it's just memes".

SIGH

Wait, what? I never inferred it like that. I just saw it as poking at people who did or didn't like something and would go on a diatribe about it.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Wait, what? I never inferred it like that. I just saw it as poking at people who did or didn't like something and would go on a diatribe about it.

That's literally the origin of the "reeee" thing. Jerks on 4chan or whatever other worthless slime-pit of the internet calling each other "autistic" as an insult.

The use of "reeeee" replaced "(autistic screeching)" in their parlance.

29 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Would anyone be opposed to these upgrades scaling in cost according to init? Like, they are easily 10-20 points more valuable at init 6 than init 1.

when they said variable cost upgrades, scaling cost by initiative was how i thought they were going to do it. I think it's a step in the right direction. The problem is that something like advS on a ship that can reposition (which most ships have now) doesn't need to be on I5-6 ships to be broken, just on the highest init ship on the board. Sabine is a monster if all she's facing is I1-2 ships. Even on I1 ships, if I make you go first then my I1 is pretty much I6 against your I1s.

Just now, Aaron Foss said:

That's literally the origin of the "reeee" thing. Jerks on 4chan or whatever other worthless slime-pit of the internet calling each other "autistic" as an insult.

If everyone refrained from saying anything that 4-chan has made awful at some point I'm not sure what's left...

okay what on earth are we mad about now?

17 minutes ago, Makaze said:

If everyone refrained from saying anything that 4-chan has made awful at some point I'm not sure what's left...

Nobody is reclaiming a term or idiom here - the literal origin of the usage is about being insulting and ableist. Nice slippery slope though.

18 minutes ago, Makaze said:

If everyone refrained from saying anything that 4-chan has made awful at some point I'm not sure what's left...

There's a difference between something being made awful and something starting out as awful in the first place.

I swear @Aaron Foss isn't my alt...

1 hour ago, Aaron Foss said:

That's literally the origin of the "reeee" thing. Jerks on 4chan or whatever other worthless slime-pit of the internet calling each other "autistic" as an insult.

The use of "reeeee" replaced "(autistic screeching)" in their parlance.

Btw, that makes the Screeee from Mynocks slightly uncomfortable to me. It is 100% clear that this is a similar sound by accident, but the similarity is there.

edit: I wouldn't be a patreon if I thought scrreee and reee had a common origin. I think it's an unfortunate coincidence

4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Btw, that makes the Screeee from Mynocks slightly uncomfortable to me. It is 100% clear that this is a similar sound by accident, but the similarity is there.

I get that. Knowing it 100% has a very clear non-jerk origin prevents me from having the same reaction, but I definitely understand the association feeling icky.

3 minutes ago, Aaron Foss said:

Nobody is reclaiming a term or idiom here - the literal origin of the usage is about being insulting and ableist. Nice slippery slope though.

Which until this conversation and subsequent googling I had no idea about only having heard it in context. To me it's always just been the sound of someone overcome with incoherent and impotent rage after being triggered by something either inconsequential or that they don't fully understand. Plus a healthy does of play on the Mynock's sound since for a while there certain portions of their fanbase seemed rather resembling of the former remarks

So my point was more that I guess I'm not sure I really care how or why 4-chan uses it, especially given their already heavily alternate definition of autism

52 minutes ago, Aaron Foss said:

That's literally the origin of the "reeee" thing. Jerks on 4chan or whatever other worthless slime-pit of the internet calling each other "autistic" as an insult.

The use of "reeeee" replaced "(autistic screeching)" in their parlance.

Huh. Despite being actively engaged in online communication since the days of 300 baud modems and BBSs, I’ve actively avoided 4chan and most of Reddit. I never knew this.

I’m not going to infer too much from anyone else’s use of it, and I’m not sure if I’ve used it, but I certainly won’t going forward.

36 minutes ago, Aaron Foss said:

That's literally the origin of the "reeee" thing. Jerks on 4chan or whatever other worthless slime-pit of the internet calling each other "autistic" as an insult.

The use of "reeeee" replaced "(autistic screeching)" in their parlance.

So it's a similar source as all of the stupid Chad jokes? Those never bothered me because they're mocking/subverting a group of entitled brats. This would be punching down at the same people being mocked by 4chan though. Hmmm.

I'll admit that I am a bit touchy in the subject being involved in the special needs community and I am biased on the subject.

1 hour ago, punkUser said:

So those situations are somewhat easier to solve because they are fairly indisputably cases where those ships should just cost more then. If you can be competitive with lists that cost 15+ points less regardless of initiative order, they're simply too cheap.

Of course there's some amount of covariance in list building so it's not always that simple, but there's no particularly dominant synergies in the 2 ship builds we've seen so far.

I'm so glad we have points balancing now, the number of good solutions for lists being able to take a large bid with no consequences were fairly lacking in 1.0

4 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

I'm so glad we have points balancing now, the number of good solutions for lists being able to take a large bid with no consequences were fairly lacking in 1.0

No, unavoidable bombs moving after you was clearly a fun solution.

36 minutes ago, Brunas said:

No, unavoidable bombs moving after you was clearly a fun solution.

Have you heard the tragedy of Boba with a Prox Mine?