winddrake said:

Magic heavy Riku Aggro was the dominant deck after set 2. I think it was still strong after set 3, but I wasn't really following the game well until 4 came out.

New member here so greetings everyone,

Upon reading the recent replies on this thread and other threads, I've noticed a lot of discussion about Roxas decks(I have a Roxas deck as well ^^; such as: being strong with Samurai as a 12 support friend and not being able to use magic/friends and what not.

I've noticed that Stealth Sneak is mentioned quite a few times. I would like to direct people's attention to that card instead.

Currently, the Stealth Sneak has the following stats:
Level 4, Pow 1, "All damage done to this card is reduced to 0."
I've looked up the text of the Japanese card game for Stealth sneak, and its effect text says this(for those of you who can read Japanese):
Level 4, Pow 1, "??????????????????” Which roughly translates to "All attacks and magics do not affect this card."
I'm guessing here that the Japanese effect is trying to say, you cannot defeat this card during battle or with magic cards without the aid of cards that negate effects of dark cards such as Peter Pan.

The Stealth Sneak card, was a rare in Set 3 of the Japanese Card Game with the number 42/54(Which is for most part, a chunk of Set 2 for the English card game). Later in Set 4 for the Japanese card game, the Creeper Plant card(which is included in Set 3 for the English card game) was created with the effect of dealing 1 damage to a dark(dark/nobody if you prefer) on the field.

I find it weird how it only deals 1 damage to 1 dark card on the field because 1 damage isn't exactly much help in a lot of scenarios. But looking back on Stealth Sneak who has exactly 1 Pow, it got me to think that whether or not it was a card created mainly for the purpose of getting rid of Stealth Sneaks in the Japanese card game. As people have discussed previously, the Creeper Plant card in English does not get rid of Stealth Sneak because the Stealth Sneak card in English says "All damage done to this card is reduced to 0."

Personally, I think that Stealth Sneaks although can be easily dealt with for Player/Light decks, it makes the Player/Dark decks and Player/XIII decks result to either go for an aggressive beat down style or auto-escape from the world Stealth Sneak is placed upon.

What I'm trying to propose here is simply an errata on the Stealth Sneak card so that cards such as Creeper Plant and Chakrams(or Rings if you prefer) are able to deal damage to Stealth Sneaks, providing another solution for Dark and XIII decks other than escape.

Anyways, thats my idea ^^;; so yea....

Sorry, didn't seem to find an edit button ^^;;.
The Japanese text doesn't seem to be showing up properly, so here is the text of the Japanese card for Stealth Sneak in Romaji-form:"Kore ni ha subete no kougeki, mahou ga kikanai."

stealth sneak doesn't need errata....why would it need errata?

Highjack said:

RockmanEXE said:

I believe this sums it up.

Also, I agree with RockmanEXE. The wordin on Stealth Sneak was changed drastically. I'd rather it be like the original text instead of what we have now. Makes the gameplay so much more simple 'n better to play with, certainly.

This will be looked into...for the longest time I always looked at Creeper Plant and thought "What good is that? It really seems like this was made so Dark Decks can kill a Sneak..."

What I don't get is why it was changed from the original Japanese wording...it wouldn't have been that big of a deal, FFG just made it more powerful for some reason. I'm guessing they thought they were making it weaker...

I'd agree with RockmanEXE there for the reasons Choitz stated...I believe that a card that forces an auto escape just doesn't seem fair.

WayToTheDawn said:

Dawn, shall we sort out a time both of us can be online to discuss card rulings and edits? Just the two of us ;] And Nate if he's online/interested.

I agree it doesn't seem fair, but I had stealth sneaks/gargoyles played against me at gencon, I ran away and then proceeded to win the game. My point is it doesn't impair dark/XIII decks that much. Errata should be a last ditch effort, if stealth sneak made for an auto-loss and not just an annoyance I could see the point.

I'm not gonna lie... I wouldn't take this years gencon (from what I've heard of it) as the be all end all of this meta game and I don't think it even scratched the surface on issues of what cards are broken/annoyances.... from all my experience against a "good" aggro 1 escape lots of the time means the game.

the funny this is that for about the first 2 months of set 3 I was playing where creeper could kill the sneak... lol I looked at the card in my first read through and thought that must be what that card is for and never really realised the exact wording of it for a while .

I think it should be changed, if nothing else it makes the card not 100% useless, and more varity is always a good thing (especially when it's at no cost to theme or balance). honestly I still think there are way better darks than stealth sneak anyway and if dark decks start packing a bunch of these it'll just make their decks weaker and give them more trouble against the better dark cards that exist.

Highjack said:

Yes, yes it does. It horridly impares Dark WR. It impares it so much that the deck isn't even considered for open play. Now to me, that cries out for "ERRATA" when one card completely kills the possibility of a whole deck type. If you don't believe this to be true, playtest it. I have, and if a Dark WR is playing a deck with even one Stealth in it, you have a verticle battle on your hands.

Tho I'm not sure I would support an errata on Stealth as much as one on Creeper. Just sayin

so, just to be clear, your conention is that stealth sneak is the only thing standing in the way of dark WR and victory? Not Monstro or any other cards?

Of all the friend cards, world cards, magic cards, attack cards, dark cards, 'n nobody cards, Americanized Stealth Sneak is the only one that a World Runnin Dark 'n Org. Decks have the most impossible time with, aside from runnin from the world.

Every other card has a potential way of bein defeated, even under certain standpoints. Americanized Stealth Sneak is too powerful for a Dark 'n Org. Deck to defeat, as of right now.

im sorry to say this but dark wr and nobody wr are going to suffer no matter what . i mean around me if someone runs aggro they probably run phil and becasue stealth sneak is a little harder to come by most people run gargoyles and invisibles. the gargoyls will be the same thing and then instead of aggro running stealth sneak it will probably switch to gargoyles because the only way to get around that is to retreat. im just saying that errating(?) stealth sneak wont do that much good in the long run. you can make it so creeper plant can kill it but then it will be pointless. also, saying that the american cards are translated poorly or badly is pointless. FFG can do whatever they want with the cards they dont have to translate it to be exacxtly the same. look at 100 acre wood im pretty sure the japanese one says "no challenges can take place" and FFG has made that card 2 times each with completly different wording. did they just mess up big time? no. idk sorry to rant but point being chainging stealth sneak is pointless we should all just yell at ffg until they print a nobody/heartless equivialnt to peter pan

I like the idea of changing the stealth sneak since then axel and his chakrams could take it out too if I have my facts correct from this thread. As for still being difficult to kill and invisibles and gargoyles, you can always run a Minnie Mouse to clear a world. Sure you fry your hand, but with a fairy godmother and a kairi and selphie in play, you can easily get cards back. There is also technique damage now, is there not. Another way to get around damage preventers. Or you could use one of the techniques that remove Darks from the world. Even though there are tough cards to get rid of, and stealth sneak is hard to kill, (well, there is dumbo too) there are still a many of ways to get rid of them. Mostly for Lights though.

Highjack said:

Monstro can be dealt with against a Dark WR. Stealth, cannot.

I'm not saying there are cards out there that hinder Dark WR, I'm saying Stealth Sneak is the only card in this game that a Dark WR absolutly cannot prepare for. As GTrogi stated, a single escape is a huge blow to any deck. So if you have a card that makes this almost mandatory, something needs to be changed.

I don't know, maybe we just design decks/play differently, but I've never felt escaping was that harmful. I'm curious though, how can the deck deal with monstro?

hes probably referring to white mushroom-right?- lvl 1 card that takes away all the text of the world card it is placed on. if you drop it on monstro you can try and spam your friend zone. or the aerora/ga to get rid of monstro period but those require high lvl magic and phil stops you there so dark is still screwed. idc if you do errata stealth sneak im just saying that its proably not going to be effective in the long run. dark and nobody cards need a peter pan. as for the person who commented on me earlier i know there are techniques and dumbo etc for light players i was talking about dark and nobody decks.

EDIT: i should also include roxas decks in the same spot as dark/nobody cards

this is going to get shot down and critized but w/e its an idea. turn heartless/ nobody cards into peter panish cards ex. solder lvl 1 now eliminates dark/heartless card texts idk howd you do nobody cards seeing as each one has an effect. i personally think its a horrrible idea but if it will get people to stop complainign about stealth sneak then awesome.

capncrunch said:

Right...Let me establish one fact: We are not re-writing this game. We are here to fix bad rulings and card texts.

Giving a card an effect which it didn't have in the first place isn't what we're here to do. If FFG want to commision me to re-write this whole game for them, I'll happily do that, but they haven't yet.

i know that is a horrible idea im just saying if your going to change stealth sneak to say he can be damaged people will stop running that and switch to something else and then your back to square one. im sorry to say but people might just have to deal with stealth sneak being an auto escape. it ruins 3 decks but its something that might just be the best for rulings.

capncrunch said:

Here's the thing, what else is there that screws decks over that badly? Stealth Sneak is the only card where 3 decks HAVE to escape if they want to continue to play Worlds. The closest thing that Dark decks have to getting round it is CoWG.

most aggro decks-that ive seen- run phil and multiple copies of it as well. if you change around stealth sneak fine but then what happens when aggro starts to switch the stealth for a gargoyle, with phil out a gargoyle will force an auto escape. it will be the same situation.

Yes, because before Phil existed nobody ever thought up Wizard+Gargoyle.

EVER.

Phil/Wizard + Gargoyle is easier to clear than bloody Stealth Sneak.

Trothael said:

Totally on, yet off topic (or the topic we've been off of for a while)..

I just noted this as I was scannin though.

When did Roxas turn to the LIGHT SIDE???

before phil there was peter pan and no dark/nobody decks. phils an uncommon-easier to get than wizard- and a lvl 1 to drop in the friend zone- easier to play than wizard- and i never said that wizard/gargoyle wasnt effective.im not saying wizard is useless. its just that nobody decks will ahve a really hard time trying to get around phil+gargoyle darks will have it a bit easier but its still really hard. im thinking to cage it then magic the gargoyle. that still going to hard becasue aggro generally doesnt go too high into the world count and darks have to play the cage as a friend which still isnt a walk into the park. i suppose thats easier than not being able to kill stealth sneak but its still a giant pain in the butt. im still saying that ffg needs to make dark/nobody cards that have peter pans effect

Highjack said:

Escaping isn't as harmful when you're going from 1-4. It's pretty bad when you are trying to go from 1-6 which is the case unless you have EotW lvl2 as your previous world. And no matter what WR archetype you're playing, one of the basic things you try to do is get out (and keep) your worlds. If your opponent can have 2 or 3 100% sure-fire ways of taking away 2 turns worth of headway, that insta-kills your game. And I don't believe you can say losing up to 6 turns of World-playing isn't going to spell doom for any WR