I think too many TIE variants really dilutes the theme of the Imperial forces

That's essentially what the Gunboat does.

TIEs ARE the theme of Imperial starfighter forces. Adding a bunch of ships that aren't TIEs are what causes dilution of that theme.

But the Lambda Shuttle is also inherently imperial, as is the Star Destroyer, and the Death Star, and the stormtroopers, and the AT-AT walkers, etc. And none of them look at all like a TIE. You need to expand the design space, or soon it becomes overused. Can you say with a straight face that the TIE style has not been overused?

Would you have really preferred that the Battle of Hoth had been fought against these things?

I mean, once you start perverting the geniality of the original design, it becomes silly. Would you prefer all of these designs rather than anything that isn't a TIE?

Some of them are just hilarious. Some of them could be called TIE Pokemon, TIE Ewok Glider, or TIE Dildo. Look at the TIE Raptor!

The TIE Lone Scout looks like a TIE Travelling Pet Box. And the TIE Starcruiser is just sad.

One thing I hate with the E-Wing and the Z95 is precisely how similar they are to the X-Wing. I understand the Z95 was a Ralph McQuarrie early concept of the X-Wing, and so the EU writers reused it when they had to come with an earlier model of a rebel starfighter. But the E-Wing is just lazy. It's the X-Wing with two wings off.

"Rebel starfighter" must mean something else than "cosmetic variation of the starfighters we already know".

The design of the A-Wing or the B-Wing were nothing at all like the X-Wing or Y-Wing. They brought fresh new ideas when ROTJ came out.

In the same way, Imperial starfighter doesn't have to mean "TIE variant" when it is well established that the Empire used several manufacturers.

I dunno, the Z-95 to X-wing to E-wing follow a likely upgrade procession. They wouldn't look vastly different from their predecessor.

Kind of like the F-4 Phantom to F-15 to F-22.

I dunno, the Z-95 to X-wing to E-wing follow a likely upgrade procession. They wouldn't look vastly different from their predecessor.

Kind of like the F-4 Phantom to F-15 to F-22.

Which is fair enough - it shows a progression from the Clone Wars to the New Republic, from basic starfighter to advanced (if expensive and underpowered ) superfighter.

But not all the ships in the faction follow those same aesthetic principles. Y-Wings, B-Wings, A-Wings, the K-Wing... OK, so the Rebels are known for using pretty much whatever they can get their hands on and (like Scum) aesthetic diversity amongst their fleet is common, but that doesn't mean there's no room for aesthetic diversity in the Imperial Navy as well.

Seinar Fleet Systems. Kuat Drive Yards. Cygnus Spaceworks. The Empire had many contractors, and many suppliers. It's perfectly fair for the Imperial Navy's forces to be dominated by the TIE series, but it's also perfectly fair that other ships and aesthetic styles are represented as well. I can't think of anything more lazy and uninspiring than FFG simply checking off boxes on the picture Azrapse kindly posted above.

Quick! Somebody name another Imperial starfighter that can take off from and land at rough and unprepared advance airfield sites.

A. Probably all of them?

B. We have a lot of rough, unprepared advanced airfield sites in this space combat game?

A- How do you land a TIE Interceptor? How do you dismount it? How do you mount it? TIEs pretty much require specialized equipment to recover and launch them. Equipment that is bulky and difficult to transport in the field. Equipment that is only needed at a minimum to support a fighter like the X-Wing, A-Wing, StarWing, &c.

B- It's called flavor or fluff. Without which there is no game.

To be fair, in the new Rebels cartoon, the TIE Fighters are usually parked on their side panels just on the floor. However, it must be a nightmare to refuel and repair those TIEs without proper cranes and equipment.

If I don't remember wrong, the TIEs seem to have some kind of minielevator. At least the TIE Phantom showed one in the Rebel Assault 2 cutscenes. It is more like a retractile platform.
You can see it around 33:30 in this video.
https://youtu.be/zrnuGT5KxnU?t=33m39s
It makes sense, however, that in a Star Destroyer TIEs (and also the Gunboats) were parked on a mobile rack for better storage and faster launching.

The TIE Phantom is really its own kind of thing. In many ways, it probably shouldn't have the acronym "TIE" attached to it and it is radically different from every other craft in the TIE series.

I find it difficult to imagine that the Empire wouldn't spend (from other threads, here, not my opinion) money on giving TIEs a hyperdrive, sensors, or lifesupport (because they make the fighter heavier and slower and less maneuverable - and more expensive)... but they'll give them a mini-elevator? They'll give them almost no armor but they'll reinforce the wings and panels to allow them to land directly on the panels (speculation on Wookieepedia is that the panels are shorter and stouter on the TIEs made on Lothal to allow them to land on the ground)?

I think too many TIE variants really dilutes the theme of the Imperial forces

That's essentially what the Gunboat does.

TIEs ARE the theme of Imperial starfighter forces. Adding a bunch of ships that aren't TIEs are what causes dilution of that theme.

Totally disagree. But as i've pointed out before - this is a matter of taste and what you grew up with. For me a veteran of the pre-prequel era of Jedi knight, Dark forces, and the X-wing series of games the Assault Gunboat is a beloved accessory that adds a level of specialty to Imperial forces. If you want an example of diluting, see the TIE Punisher. Or... you know, glue two tie bombers together. The Gunboat is clearly a different animal.

But the Lambda Shuttle is also inherently imperial, as is the Star Destroyer, and the Death Star, and the stormtroopers, and the AT-AT walkers, etc.

Yes, but each of those is at a completely different scale than any of the rest.

The theme of Imperial starfighters is the balls with solar panel wings(Every TIE)

The theme of Imperial transports is foldy wing things(Lambda shuttles, Delta escort shuttles, Sentinel landing craft, YE-4 gunships, etc.)

The theme of Imperial capital ships is giant cheese wedges of doom(Imperial star destroyers, Victory star destroyers, Immobilizer interdictor cruisers, etc.)

There's no evidence that that would even be an issue.

Yes, and Interceptor would be leaning forward when it lands. But if it's wings can support it(which one assumes that if the Fighter can, the Interceptor can) and it takes off by hovering, there's no reason any of that should cause it any problems.

For me a veteran of the pre-prequel era of Jedi knight, Dark forces, and the X-wing series of games the Assault Gunboat is a beloved accessory that adds a level of specialty to Imperial forces.

I'm as much of that era as you are, and even at the time when TIE Fighter was brand new, I felt the Gunboat was out of place in that game.

Been playing TIE-Fighter all day long on my XP machine that I keep maintained as well as possible just for THAT game.

And I absolutely love the Gunboat! It's such a cool craft. Got 6 of the from Mel in the meantime and couldnt be happier with my Tau, Nu and Rho Squadron Gunboats.

Quick! Get to ze cockpit!

Oh, wait, you can't. You need a really tall ladder to get into it. You need more ladders to refuel it. Scaffolding to perform basic pre-flight checks. The gunboat (and most other snubfighters) can be clambered over by a pilot and ground crew without needing any ladders or scaffolds - although step ladders can help...

Sorry, couldn't help it...

The theme of Imperial starfighters is the balls with solar panel wings(Every TIE)

Only as a very general rule. The Empire made extensive use of Frigates, Cruisers, Dreadnaughts and other large-scale carriers. While the Nebulon B Frigate was prominently featured in the films as a Rebel medical craft, it has existed in the franchise for almost 20 years as a ship specifically designed for and used by the Imperial Navy...

But the Lambda Shuttle is also inherently imperial, as is the Star Destroyer, and the Death Star, and the stormtroopers, and the AT-AT walkers, etc.

Yes, but each of those is at a completely different scale than any of the rest.

The theme of Imperial starfighters is the balls with solar panel wings(Every TIE)

The theme of Imperial transports is foldy wing things(Lambda shuttles, Delta escort shuttles, Sentinel landing craft, YE-4 gunships, etc.)

The theme of Imperial capital ships is giant cheese wedges of doom(Imperial star destroyers, Victory star destroyers, Immobilizer interdictor cruisers, etc.)

You need a really tall ladder to get into it.

So...like every modern jet fighter.

unbalanced designs that don't lend themselves well to resting on their panels (like the Interceptor)....

There's no evidence that that would even be an issue.

Yes, and Interceptor would be leaning forward when it lands. But if it's wings can support it(which one assumes that if the Fighter can, the Interceptor can) and it takes off by hovering, there's no reason any of that should cause it any problems.

Thing 1: Then you have the VT-49. And the Firespray. Neither of which fit the Imperial aesthetic.

Thing Bravo: And then you have the A/V-8B and the F-35B. Aircraft that are intended to be used from advance air fields.

Thing Gamma: Why wouldn't it be an issue? Just because a modern fighter looks like it might make a pretty mean boat doesn't mean that you can land it on the water.

Only as a very general rule.

I didn't say there weren't exceptions. Just that that is the "theme". And that the idea that "too many TIEs" spoils the theme, while a ship that is completely outside of that aesthetic somehow enhances it is ridiculous.

The Firespray should never have been an Imperial ship in this game.

Why WOULD it be? The Interceptor is a science fiction ship that clearly gives zero **** about such issues as aerodynamics and structural integrity. Why would you assume any other real world issues would apply to how it functions?

TIEs take off with anti-gravity-who-gives-a-**** power. Why would the fact that the nose is pointed slightly down make it's made up fantasy propulsion not work?

It's true, TIE's do use repulsors, and I think we can all agree the firespray should have never been Imperial. Also too many ties absolutely spoils the theme. The entire point of TIE's is that they are bare bones, utilitarian and cheap. Military gray with solar panels Oh sure the advanced, phantom and Defender are the snazzy models but the rest are mass produced. Additionally these are all ships made by Seinar Fleet Systems. Say the Empire gave a contract for a long range assault fighter to say... I dunno, Cygnus spaceworks rather than Seinar, and they wanted to spend money on it. Well lo, different aesthetic, can still be military grey but it clearly fulfills the task it was built for.

Removing the XG-1 is as much as a crime as removing Imperial Nebulon B frigates, and Imperial corvettes. They are a part of established canon, and I get it, simplifying Star Wars would remove all of these nuances. But really, who wants a simplified star wars? Let's make Neb B's cool by them being stolen Imperial patrol ships, let's have Corvettes being readily purchased modular multi role ships, and for the love of the force let's have our long range recon workhorse ships. Give me my bloody XG-1. I'd rather have one of those than a dozen egg cartons.

The Empire is a galaxy spanning superpower, with a diverse range of peoples and equipment. Saying they all arbitrarily have TIE's, cheesewedges and foldy shuttles is nothing short of oversimplified stupidity.

ALSO On the subject of foldy shuttles, my DX-9 Stormtrooper transport wants a quiet word.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/134089-alpha-1-this-is-sigma-1-docking-operation-complete/ (can't remember where I hosted the original image).

But the Lambda Shuttle is also inherently imperial, as is the Star Destroyer, and the Death Star, and the stormtroopers, and the AT-AT walkers, etc.

Yes, but each of those is at a completely different scale than any of the rest.

The theme of Imperial starfighters is the balls with solar panel wings(Every TIE)

The theme of Imperial transports is foldy wing things(Lambda shuttles, Delta escort shuttles, Sentinel landing craft, YE-4 gunships, etc.)

The theme of Imperial capital ships is giant cheese wedges of doom(Imperial star destroyers, Victory star destroyers, Immobilizer interdictor cruisers, etc.)

You need a really tall ladder to get into it.

So...like every modern jet fighter.

unbalanced designs that don't lend themselves well to resting on their panels (like the Interceptor)....

There's no evidence that that would even be an issue.

Yes, and Interceptor would be leaning forward when it lands. But if it's wings can support it(which one assumes that if the Fighter can, the Interceptor can) and it takes off by hovering, there's no reason any of that should cause it any problems.

It's perfectly fair for the Imperial Navy's forces to be dominated by the TIE series, but it's also perfectly fair that other ships and aesthetic styles are represented as well.

I'm not saying the Gunboat and Missile Boat shouldn't be in the game. I think everything that's flyable in the X-Wing series, the Rogue Squadron series or SWG should be in the game eventually.

I just like the TIEs better, and want to see them sooner. Specifically, the Aggressor, Oppressor, Avenger and Hunter.

For me a veteran of the pre-prequel era of Jedi knight, Dark forces, and the X-wing series of games the Assault Gunboat is a beloved accessory that adds a level of specialty to Imperial forces.

I'm as much of that era as you are, and even at the time when TIE Fighter was brand new, I felt the Gunboat was out of place in that game.

I'm sorry, but I really have to address this post...

First, the Imperial Shuttle and AT-AT are the same scale.

The TIEgt, TIE Bomber, TIE Shuttle, and TIE Avenger are not based on spherical cockpits (tubes and ovoids, actually).

Delta-class escort shuttles do not possess folding wings, and neither do YE-4 Gunships.

The Imperial Bulk Cruiser, Nebulon-B, Nebulon-B2, Dreadnaught, Kiltirin-class, Lictor-class, Trenchant-class, X-Q1 patrol ship, X-Q2 System Patrol Craft, Tartan Patrol Ship, Bayonet-class, Carrack-class, IPV/h, Lancer-class, StarGalleon, Escort Carrier, Strike-class Cruiser, Class 1000 Cruiser, Moduler Taskforce Carrier, Adz Patrol Destroyer, Vibre Assault Cruiser, and Broadsword-class Troop Transport don't resemble "cheese wedges" at all.

The ladder is an issue for the TIE Fighter when the ship lands far from a base, specifically when it's an emergency landing such as loss of engine power, fuel depletion, sensor loss, navigation computer loss, etc. There are no handholds for a TIE pilot to grasp going up the wings, and I wouldn't want to trust myself balancing on the tubular pylons as I crossed them to get to the cockpit.

It would be stupid for a TIE Interceptor to land directly on its wings, precisely because the wings are bent. The amount of strain on a regular TIE Fighter's solar radiators is negligible since they are straight panels and their geometry alone would keep them from crumpling easily. But a TIE Interceptor's wings are bent . The amount of torque on the bend in the wing would be t=rFsin(theta), where r is the radius, F is the force, and theta is the angle.

r = ~1.8m

Theta = ~55 degrees

F = unknown, but we can assume probably a couple of tons at least, which translates to about 20k newtons

This translates to about 36,000 newtons of torque on the wings, or 3.6 tons. And this is assuming the body is ridiculously light at 4-5 tons. a more realistic weight based on the volume of the sphere and the wing pylons would be more along the lines of 8-10 tons, which would result in torque values of nearly 9 tons on each wing joint. Needless to say, this kind of force acting on the wings would probably snap them at the joints if you so much as spit on them. They're thin and constructed from lightweight materials to enable them to be as maneuverable as possible. It's highly unlikely they're made from anything that can withstand that much force.

So, to people with even a small amount of technical schooling, the TIE Interceptor landing on its wings makes us shudder.

I didn't say there weren't exceptions.

However, you did say earlier in the thread that it wre up to you, you'd get rid of the exceptions. Which would make for an awfully bland and uninteresting Star Wars universe, in my opinion.

And that the idea that "too many TIEs" spoils the theme, while a ship that is completely outside of that aesthetic somehow enhances it is ridiculous.

As further evidenced here. Utter narrow mindedness - especially when you consider that while the ships in question may be outside of the TIE Series aesthetic, they're still sat perfectly within the overall Imperial Navy aesthetic due to their relationship with the Lambda-class Shuttle.

I'll reiterate: the TIE Oppressor and Hunter are both ugly, unaesthetic designs that are even more fanboyish than the K-wing; I hope they never see the light of day. The Assault Gunboat has shields, hyperdrive, and heavy weapons, but it also looks the part and has a sleek appearance that sells the idea.

Let's be honest here, the Clawcraft and TIE/droid are the only two remaining variants that have panel designs non-ugly enough to warrant consideration.

Let's be honest here, the Clawcraft and TIE/droid are the only two remaining variants that have panel designs non-ugly enough to warrant consideration.

You forgot the TIE Avenger, which looks better than both.

Categorically false. It's a squint panel with fuglier cutouts and some taper fudging that's pretty ugly compared to the squint due to being more blunt.

The ladder is an issue for the TIE Fighter when the ship lands far from a base, specifically when it's an emergency landing such as loss of engine power, fuel depletion, sensor loss, navigation computer loss, etc. There are no handholds for a TIE pilot to grasp going up the wings, and I wouldn't want to trust myself balancing on the tubular pylons as I crossed them to get to the cockpit.

It would be stupid for a TIE Interceptor to land directly on its wings, precisely because the wings are bent. The amount of strain on a regular TIE Fighter's solar radiators is negligible since they are straight panels and their geometry alone would keep them from crumpling easily. But a TIE Interceptor's wings are bent . The amount of torque on the bend in the wing would be t=rFsin(theta), where r is the radius, F is the force, and theta is the angle.

r = ~1.8m

Theta = ~55 degrees

F = unknown, but we can assume probably a couple of tons at least, which translates to about 20k newtons

This translates to about 36,000 newtons of torque on the wings, or 3.6 tons. And this is assuming the body is ridiculously light at 4-5 tons. a more realistic weight based on the volume of the sphere and the wing pylons would be more along the lines of 8-10 tons, which would result in torque values of nearly 9 tons on each wing joint. Needless to say, this kind of force acting on the wings would probably snap them at the joints if you so much as spit on them. They're thin and constructed from lightweight materials to enable them to be as maneuverable as possible. It's highly unlikely they're made from anything that can withstand that much force.

So, to people with even a small amount of technical schooling, the TIE Interceptor landing on its wings makes us shudder.

That sounds like modern Earth science and we're talking ancient alien tech. They could be using transparent aluminum painted blue/grey, or some super strong composite that laughs at Earth physics and weight estimates.

Removing the XG-1 is as much as a crime as removing Imperial Nebulon B frigates, and Imperial corvettes. They are a part of established canon, and I get it, simplifying Star Wars would remove all of these nuances.

Has the XG-1 been used in the new canon? If they were going to use it, they would have by now.

It would be stupid for a TIE Interceptor to land directly on its wings, precisely because the wings are bent. The amount of strain on a regular TIE Fighter's solar radiators is negligible since they are straight panels and their geometry alone would keep them from crumpling easily. But a TIE Interceptor's wings are bent . The amount of torque on the bend in the wing would be t=rFsin(theta), where r is the radius, F is the force, and theta is the angle.

r = ~1.8m

Theta = ~55 degrees

F = unknown, but we can assume probably a couple of tons at least, which translates to about 20k newtons

This translates to about 36,000 newtons of torque on the wings, or 3.6 tons. And this is assuming the body is ridiculously light at 4-5 tons. a more realistic weight based on the volume of the sphere and the wing pylons would be more along the lines of 8-10 tons, which would result in torque values of nearly 9 tons on each wing joint. Needless to say, this kind of force acting on the wings would probably snap them at the joints if you so much as spit on them. They're thin and constructed from lightweight materials to enable them to be as maneuverable as possible. It's highly unlikely they're made from anything that can withstand that much force.

So, to people with even a small amount of technical schooling, the TIE Interceptor landing on its wings makes us shudder.

Now take all of that math you just did, and throw it out the window, because the TIE Interceptor is made of a science-fiction space metal you have no idea of stress limits of. Yes, it's lightweight, but only compared to OTHER spaceships ALSO made of science-fiction space metals.

You should already know that whatever it's made of is far stronger than anything we use, otherwise, just flying through the atmosphere being shaped like it is should tear it's wings off.

Stop trying to apply real physics to a fake ****ing made up spaceship.

I-7 Howlrunner and A-9 Vigilance

Only if it's the real I-7 and not the truncated toolbox version.

Now take all of that math you just did, and throw it out the window, because the TIE Interceptor is made of a science-fiction space metal you have no idea of stress limits of. Yes, it's lightweight, but only compared to OTHER spaceships ALSO made of science-fiction space metals.

You should already know that whatever it's made of is far stronger than anything we use, otherwise, just flying through the atmosphere being shaped like it is should tear it's wings off.

Stop trying to apply real physics to a fake ****ing made up spaceship.

Look, we get it, you think creative control of this game sis your Sheev-given right.

Problem is, you're living in a made-up world that only exists and will ever only exist inside the echoing confines of your head.

That's not healthy and I think the forum is tired of having to watch it, like having a monkey glued to the insides of their eyelids.

*fart sound*

Categorically false. It's a squint panel with fuglier cutouts and some taper fudging that's pretty ugly compared to the squint due to being more blunt.

Silence infidel! I will hear no more of your devilspun lies!

I have a compromise between the Gunboat and Tie factions

Keep the Gunboat design, but make the 5 wings patterned like solar panels. Size it like the K wing. Keep the shuttle nose, and let the lore on the generic pilots explain that Cygnus got to make something slightly smaller and more nimble than the shuttle.

patterning the wings would turn the gunboat from appealing to ugly in a split second, though, they're just not shaped right to be wearing that texture