Curious what people think about the ETA's initial prices.

Particularly Obi-Wan: https://strawpoll.com/5v1ub1awq

Kylo: 76
Fenn: 68
Vader: 66
Ani CLT: 66
Guri: 64
Poe: 62
Luke: 61
Whisper: 60
Old T: 56
Ani ETA: 56
Vonreg: 55
Soontir: 54
Obi CLT: 53
Holo: 53
Grand Inq: 52
Aayla ETA: 51
Plo CLT: 49
Obi ETA: 49
Talonbane: 48
Ric: 45
Maarek: 45
Duchess: 45

Updating with some way to early reactions:

Limited # of games all hyperspace only. Played a couple test games of the following, more with the second list than the first:

• Ani Obi Aayla with 3x copies of Patience Predator Hull for 189
• Ani Obi + VVV with 2x copies of Patience for 190
• Ani Pred + Obi Pred + V + V Besh Thermal + V Besh Thermal 200

Initial impression are basically this:

• Predator makes their offense super reliable.
  • Definitely getting multiple 3-4 dice shots a game from each individual ETA.
  • Makes Evade the default action unless I am not defending or repositioning out of arc
  • Gives you "full" offensive mods while bonked
  • Reduces the need to ever Purple Lock
  • I feel like they offer similar offensive threat to Fang Fighters but more flexibility
  • Dangerous from various ranges with far better time on target and less predictable movement
    
• Patience makes force management pretty easy
  • Getting to Range 1 bullseye and Depleting for 3 dice is pretty normal and advisable
  • Even depleting down to 2 dice at R`1 outside of bullseye is a reasonable thing to do
  • The fact it is not range dependent is incredible
    
• Hull upgrade is gravy
  • Adding this makes the ETA feel like a hybrid between Whisper and Fang Fighter
  • Similar and often better offensive fire power, improved defense and mobility
  • Every one of these ships feels like Whisper in terms of offensive output with better mobility and defense
    
• Purple Talon Rolls
  • Again with Patience you worry less about using this and should have the force to use it
  • The boost into talon lets you go a bunch of different places.
  • Being able to roll or boost or action after the Talon is massively useful
    
• Purple Target Locks
  • Setting up target locks is possible since these recycle flank well and have the opportunity to regularly
  • Predator sort of replaces this out right and makes it a Lock if you can, ignore it otherwise type deal
  • You rarely "need" to target lock with these things
    
• System Phase Repositions
  • Should be familiar territory for everyone.
  • Can't emphasize enough how much this keeps your dial open turn to turn
  • I find the availability of Predator and low cost of Patience make me use this much more aggressively than I probably would otherwise
  • Building flanks is largely trivial since you can pretty easily modify your positioning/distance/angle leading up to engagements
  • Escaping via Double Reposition is slightly more difficult but its still a single repo ship with boost or roll. These absolutely arc dodge.
  • Engagements play out the way they normally do for Whisper.
  • Multiple ETAs can move like Phantoms + the added boost making it simple to create recycled kill boxes.
  • The 2 bank instead of 1 bank brings them closer to the fight but thats ok and can work around it with boost instead of roll and hard 1 turns
  • More or less ETAs are really good at leaving open a bunch of options open round to round and escape routes (though you can still get trapped kinda)
  • During the planning phase opponents definitely have to choose to "threaten" pretty wide areas and process a bunch of possible options
    
• Ani and Obi can likely handle a bunch of matchups
  • Need to do more testing but 4 hull Pred Patience Ani and Obi are strong enough to manage a variety of 2v4 matchups.
  • Its early but the pair definitely felt like more than 109-127 points on the table
  • Both of their abilities are strong with Ani tossing locks, stress, deplete, strain out the airlock and Obi tossing clutch focus tokens
  • Dedicated i3 Vs seem like their friend if points/bid allow
  • Running the pair in lists up to 200 points seems like it gives a ton of options for dealing with hyper swarm matchups (though 200 pts probably isn't necessary).
    
• Aayla's ability is incredible
  • Seriously spikes durability converting blanks to eyes given all the force charges available
  • Durable on her own and still a serious offensive threat with Pred + i5 + 4 dice shots + 2 force etc.
  • Thanks to patience she can work around having 1 less charge than the Ani/Obi
    
• I don't know what the correct list will be because I don't know what the matchups will be
  • However Patience/Predator/Hull feels like the correct upgrade combo unless your making room for more ships
  • Way to early to say what the matchups look like against various other Hyperspace things

So yea overall I am not surprised by the price given how cheap CLT Athers already were. I am surprised that the ETA has both a Talent and a Mod slot. Seems to mitigate a bunch of the constraints that I enjoyed playing around during pre-points proxy testing. Next Hyperspace ETA list I think I will try is Pred Ani + Pred Obi + Pred Shaak + Ric for 200. I am guessing that is not optimal though and that there are ETA lists that can afford to bid without risking to much in terms of matchups.

TLDR: I need to do more matchup testing from both sides of the table but it seems good in Hyperspace.

I feel overall that they were lower then I was expecting, but they are in a fine place. Obi-wan could probably go up like 1-2 points, buy beyond that, I feel like the ship is in a very healthy place. Obi is a weaker version of Soontir (has only a 2 dice full gun while being an initiative lower) in a faction that also has more limited options to go with such an ace. Aayla could probably go down 1 point, but I haven't really tested her out all that much. Ani might be a hare cheap, but again, only by 1-2 points. But I feel the ship as a whole is in a healthy spot.

Actis just have every tool imaginable.

• T-Rolls without stress.
• System Phase Reposition Actions.
• I wasn't expecting Cannons (unpreventable crit Autoblasters) and Talents (Predator makes the Purple Lock irrelevant) on top of everything.
• I know they're down a shield, but the flexibility of the chassis is really high, and ETA seem a bit cheap in reference to CLT.

//

But it's early; really early. Folks might figure out how to beat them. I mean, they're just TIE Fighters, kinda. Famous last words.

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, they're just TIE Fighters, kinda. Famous last words.

I feel they are more Tie Interceptor then Tie Fighter. Sure no double repos, but it is still a knife fighter through and through.

I'm liking HLC's on these, for four attack dice whenever you catch them in your bullseye arc.

Ani with marksmanship, autoblasters, A7-R7, and extreme maneuvers clocks in at 67, and is a very capable ace that can shoot double unpreventable crits...

44 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Actis just have every tool imaginable.

• T-Rolls without stress.
• System Phase Reposition Actions.
• I wasn't expecting Cannons (unpreventable crit Autoblasters) and Talents (Predator makes the Purple Lock irrelevant) on top of everything.
• I know they're down a shield, but the flexibility of the chassis is really high, and ETA seem a bit cheap in reference to CLT.

//

But it's early; really early.

This. Thanks Fig.

But also, plus Sense. Which is b***sh**.

I think the points are fine for the eta. If it ends up being too good I think removing the cannon and/or mod slot will fix it more effectively than any point change.

I guess I am just bad at x-wing because they are hot garbage in my hands.

I firmly believe that an Eta should be at least 5 points cheaper than a similar CLT Delta, except Anakin and the General. Anakin at 56 is still too expensive , and I always assumed the General would be about where it is: At low I, the ship ability is fantastic for blocking.

1 hour ago, reqent said:

I think the points are fine for the eta. If it ends up being too good I think removing the cannon and/or mod slot will fix it more effectively than any point change.

I'm really suprised this thing has a mod slot, both for lore and balance.

1 hour ago, freakyg3 said:

I guess I am just bad at x-wing because they are hot garbage in my hands.

This is the reason points get really contentious on this type of ship. Look at Soontir, if you play high level competition you can't fathom how he is so cheap and then you play an intermediate player and it seems expensive.

I play very aggressively so I burn through force with these guys so I need to make an adjustment.

Anakin with autoblasters could be an issue.

So far, my opinion is that they are just right in price, but that is with very minimal play. Sense might make them stupid good, but I have yet to use it or have it used against me. As much as this ship has going for it, the (mostly) 2-die primary and 3 hull really dials it back in.

The chassis is powerful, but... Requires upgrades to get the best out of it. System Phase Reposition is good, very good. Especially paired up with Sense, its amazing. The Ani + Obi duo is also quite interesting. But... The ship is a 2(3) / 3 / 3 / 0, meaning any blank on defense hurts a lot. It eats all Crits immediately. That's a big problem. If the enemy reads you, you can lose a third of your list in a single shot. This is massive.

Ani with Extreme Maneuvers and Lone Wolf is amazing. Super agile, super sturdy. The fact he can take Hate is okay, but with just 3 Hull you ever really regain 2 Force.

Aayla is a super fun addition to an Ace list, helping mitigate the blanks on defence. But it requires her to be up close to the enemy, which can end in a very short lifespan for the Twi'Lek.

Obi is okay. The fact he can give himself a Focus is great. That he can give one to Ani is amazing. In my opinion the two are the best Aces Republic will have by a long shot, just because he can hand out Focuses and they can still Boost or Roll.

Yoda is an odd ball for me. The two Force Powers make me think of Sense + Battle Meditation with a flock of Jedi Masters. But... It seems like a lot of points on an I3 support Ship.

End of the day, it is a 2 Dice, 3 Hull ship with a good dial. On its own its at best good. But you gotta take those upgrades to make it excelent, but then its not that cheap anymore.

EDIT:

A "cheap" ace list takes each ETA to over 60 points. While it makes them mobile like mad, every blank will be a threat of straight out losing ships.

1 hour ago, All Shields Forward said:

I'm really suprised this thing has a mod slot, both for lore and balance.

Yeah me too. I thought the eta were supposed to be safer than the aethersprites.

Another thought on the eta.

Intuitive controls has some key advantages its easier to hug obstacles for cover and it gives you an opportunity avoid devices but there is a drawback.

It is a lot easier to get bulls eye arcs with fine tuned controls. So if your used to aethersprites the eta may feel more challenging.

Which is why as @Schanez noted sense can be so critical.

1 hour ago, Schanez said:

Yoda is an odd ball for me.

I see what you did there.

57 minutes ago, reqent said:

sense can be so critical.

Personally, I feel sense is overrated. On the Athersprites, especially with CLT, I put predictive shot. It can put down TIE defenders and is awesome. I still need to try the Actis, but I think other force powers may work better. Brilliant Evasion?

23 minutes ago, Bravo Null said:

Personally, I feel sense is overrated. On the Athersprites, especially with CLT, I put predictive shot. It can put down TIE defenders and is awesome. I still need to try the Actis, but I think other force powers may work better. Brilliant Evasion?

Brilliant evasion is great with stealth device, and if you add a white evade they can be really hard to hit (they remind me of whisper with 5th brother and stealth device).

I think sense is way better for etas than deltas because of when their ability triggers. It's ok for deltas but very good for the new chassis

33 minutes ago, Bravo Null said:

Brilliant Evasion?

There's a neat synergy between BE and Aayla in a list. Between her changing a blank and the reasonable chance of naturally rolling an eye, there's a decent shot to get two Evades for a single force.

6 hours ago, NoobMaster70 said:

I feel they are more Tie Interceptor then Tie Fighter. Sure no double repos, but it is still a knife fighter through and through.

TIE Interceptors are basically just TIE Fighters, too.

36 minutes ago, Bravo Null said:

Personally, I feel sense is overrated. On the Athersprites, especially with CLT, I put predictive shot. It can put down TIE defenders and is awesome. I still need to try the Actis, but I think other force powers may work better. Brilliant Evasion?

Brilliant Evasion is a good call, but Sense works incredibly well with the I ntuitive C ontrols. Use Sense to determine your opponents maneuver, use IC to either block their maneuver or arc-dodge them. Patience may be worth it when the Eta is taking a garbage shot at somebody. Extreme Maneuvers seems fun, but I haven't tried it on anything yet.

Predictive Shot always seems lackluster since the enemy needs to be in your bullseye, and you need to spend the force before you roll attack dice. Against a TIE Defender with Focus + Evade, if you only get 1 hit, they will take 0 damage 100% of the time. If you get 2 hits, they will take 0 damage 86% of the time. And if you get 3 hits, they get full agility, and you have wasted the force that you spent.

1 hour ago, Bravo Null said:

Personally, I feel sense is overrated. On the Athersprites, especially with CLT, I put predictive shot. It can put down TIE defenders and is awesome. I still need to try the Actis, but I think other force powers may work better. Brilliant Evasion?

I wasn't suggesting using sense on aethersprites. Their more traditional double repo works great for getting bullseyes.

It was more for people struggling to get bulls eye with the eta. I haven't actually ran sense myself.

I really like brilliant evasion on Aayla it works. Honestly I haven't used a lot of force powers yet. I've been experimenting with talents. Outmaneuver on a jedi is nasty.

4 minutes ago, reqent said:

I wasn't suggesting using sense on aethersprites. Their more traditional double repo works great for getting bullseyes.

It was more for people struggling to get bulls eye with the eta. I haven't actually ran sense myself.

I really like brilliant evasion on Aayla it works. Honestly I haven't used a lot of force powers yet. I've been experimenting with talents. Outmaneuver on a jedi is nasty.

Outmaneuver seems wasted on a 2 dice attack though.

Autocrit Anakin and Sense Obi seems pretty horrifying to me. It'll explode super fast, maybe, possibly, and maybe it isn't OP on a crowded table. But it's a horror. I know what you did last summer :stabbing intensifies:

Extended, I probably slap Blasters on a couple Generals and fill out from there. Plo, something with a lot of dice/HP.

44pt is a decent I4 Interceptor.

But I'm mostly thinking Hyperspace.

I currently like the idea of Shaak Ti with Patience and Deadeye, as a support piece. Fiddly play, but interesting and seems a good pay off. 47pt vs some of the similar CLT pilots. I'm fairly certain she'll explode instantly.

I love that Obi works with N-1akin. Theme. Meme. Anakin, focus! Makes me want to give him APT. But ProTorps are solid and happen twice.

Aayla will sub in for Shaak, in the Obi/N1ani show, if the latter doesn't cut it.

That's as far as I've got.

Well, apart from Baffle Procket Oddball 19. He banks a focus and he double mods or he dies.

But that's probably not sensible.

I'm just looking at them as cagey, CLT like things that will bung some synergy, run away, come back and finish up. Get the whole tag team thing going on.

I expect I'd end up at 2x I5 (Obi, Aayla) and 2x Y Wings again, if I could get to a table. And get hold of the ETA.

Just now, SavouryRain said:

Outmaneuver seems wasted on a 2 dice attack though.

Well I'm trying to get to 4 (range 1 and bullseye). Its pretty much an Anakin upgrade.