53 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

This is the point of confusion. Many here don't see a difference between unique and Ace. Myself included. To be completely fair you haven't provided a definition for it either. In one post you only say that unique are not aces, but in the next you even add that there isn't a definition of ace...sooooo... If there's no definitions for ace, then why are you saying that uniques are not aces? See where I'm getting lost now?

I mean.... There is a definition for unique in the game, but none for ace. Ace is entirely community-made and notoriously ill-defined. You could complain about anything that's not officially defined in the game:

Many here don't see a difference between unique and gwragbls. You haven't defined gwragbls either. In one post you say gwragbls are not uniques, but in the next you say gwragbls are not defined. If there is no definition for gwragbls why do you say uniques are not gwragbls?

That's nonsensical. Of course using the official generic - unique (or in the actual terms limited/nonlimited) split makes no comment on aces, arcdodgers, gwragbls, or anything out side of unique-generic. You and @Black_Rabbit_Inle read that into it on your own.

As for your question, I already answered that. E: I can walk you through it a bit more if you want

@GreenDragoon I was just trying to go back and clear up some confusion on terms that we had, then get one data point confirmed for understanding. But it looks like this is not the most healthy of exchanges, so let's just call it here.

I appreciate your last edit at least though. So thanks for that retraction.

Cheers.

Zoom!

RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 40
•Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (32)
Predator (2)
Starbird Slash (1)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

Total: 192

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

48 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Zoom!

RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 40
•Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (32)
Predator (2)
Starbird Slash (1)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

Total: 192

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

The time of the Resistance 5A is ended, the time of Rebel 5A has begun.

7 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

The time of the Resistance 5A is ended, now comes the time of Rebel 5A.

this is a timeline i can live with!

8 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

The time of the Resistance 5A is ended, the time of Rebel 5A has begun.

That time ended a long time ago.

19 minutes ago, gennataos said:

That time ended a long time ago.

True but people are still bitter about it!

19 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Probably needs a disclaimer by now... I like generics. My favourite list type is ace + gang.... I prefer 4+ ships personally. But facts don't care about my feelings.

I do, Dragoon. And given that my existence is thus far, indeed, a fact , your prevalent sense of lonely vantage is not destined to be eternal. I want you to know your feelings will always be nurtured and respected like the valiant emotional data-points that they deserve to be remembered as.

Say it with me, my friends.... so he knows he'll never be alone in that void of isolation and algorithmic uncertainty....

ACE+GANG!

ACE+GANG!

ACE+GANG!

now... and forever .

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Zoom!

RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 40
•Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (32)
Predator (2)
Starbird Slash (1)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 38
Green Squadron Pilot - (30)
Starbird Slash (1)
Predator (2)
Proton Rockets (5)

Total: 192

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

No love for Jake? Being able to double mod up to two of those rockets a turn seems good

4 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

No love for Jake? Being able to double mod up to two of those rockets a turn seems good

Jake if yah want. I personally enjoy matched inits, this being a RotJ Green Squadron list is just fun gravy.

8 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

fun gravy

Sounds like my first date

6 hours ago, dsul413 said:

Can we just try it and see if its fun!? Like actually play an event or two? My goodness.

Is someone planning a big hyperspace event?

6 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

No! My favorite ship/pilot is gone and I am mad. Thinking is hard and you can't make me do it if I don't wanna.

I’m not sure why that’s something to laugh at. People play the game, even the competitive game, for different reasons.

7 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

No! My favorite ship/pilot is gone and I am mad. <snip ad hominem bull ****>

Looking at the table and realizing, "I'm flying ships that I don't enjoy flying. I'm actually not having fun right now" is a legit reason to dislike playing the Hyperspace format.

4 hours ago, kris40k said:

Looking at the table and realizing, "I'm flying ships that I don't enjoy flying. I'm actually not having fun right now" is a legit reason to dislike playing the extended format.

Statement is still true with this change. To play a viable or competitive list in extended I've very often had to play stuff I didn't want to or didn't have fun with. Can't tell you how many folk I've seen cross my path that were bummed their favorite heros or ships weren't viable options even though they were legal.

*Eyes YT-2400 longingly 😗

@ForceSensitive Sure, and if you enjoy the Hyperspace format more than Extended, more power to ya.

There is just no reason for insulting players who don't prefer a particular format, or that are upset that they can no longer play the ships or pilots that they enjoy in it, as the particular poster I was responding to was. I'm personally glad that Hyperspace exists, and that its a space for those that enjoy the building constraints with limited lists and shaking up the meta periodically. I just personally enjoy Extended more. I'm also against the occasional statement made by some on the forums that FFG should favor Hyperspace over Extended when it comes to design decisions, balancing, and events.

@kris40k was just expanding on your point. I'm glad that extended exists for players who want a more static environment.

I do think Hyperspace is the better format though for competition, for a number of reasons. I've never seen it suggested that design should focus on it, which I agree would be a weird thing. Balancing is of course going to have to be split evenly between the two.

59 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Statement is still true with this change.

Is it? In Extended, you can fly whatever ship is your favorite. Will it win or even be competitive? Well, that's a different story. But you *CAN* play it. In Hyperspace, that choice can be made for you. If you're flying ships you don't have fun with in Extended, well, you picked the list.

5 hours ago, kris40k said:

Looking at the table and realizing, "I'm flying ships that I don't enjoy flying. I'm actually not having fun right now" is a legit reason to dislike playing the Hyperspace format.

This rings truer to me than it ever has.

47 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I'm also against the occasional statement made by some on the forums that FFG should favor Hyperspace over Extended when it comes to design decisions, balancing, and events.

Prior to this round of HS, I was inclined to think Hyperspace should be the main competitive format, and Extended ought to be the just-for-fun format .

That just flipped.

Again, I think this HS round looks fun to me. It's OK for folks to like different things. Of course, I'll probably never actually play it in person, but that's just how it goes these days.

But I don't think Hyperspace could be seen as a serious format. (Not serious anymore? Was it ever serious?) Anyhow, now clearly Hyperspace is a spice -things-up format . If that's what some folks want to keep excited about X-Wing, then great! I'm all for it. For folks who like it, I think that's great. But it's a significantly harder ask for folks who don't like it. Overall, I can't really justify my older view that FFG ought to go to lengths to promote it as the main competitive format. It's too strange for that now, too skewed.

6 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Sounds like my first date

I met about half of her family that lived in the area on mine. So about 20 of my future inlaws were there. Been a good 22 years since then.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Is it? In Extended, you can fly whatever ship is your favorite. Will it win or even be competitive? Well, that's a different story. But you *CAN* play it. In Hyperspace, that choice can be made for you. If you're flying ships you don't have fun with in Extended, well, you picked the list.

This rings truer to me than it ever has.

Prior to this round of HS, I was inclined to think Hyperspace should be the main competitive format, and Extended ought to be the just-for-fun format .

That just flipped.

Again, I think this HS round looks fun to me. It's OK for folks to like different things. Of course, I'll probably never actually play it in person, but that's just how it goes these days.

But I don't think Hyperspace could be seen as a serious format. (Not serious anymore? Was it ever serious?) Anyhow, now clearly Hyperspace is a spice -things-up format . If that's what some folks want to keep excited about X-Wing, then great! I'm all for it. For folks who like it, I think that's great. But it's a significantly harder ask for folks who don't like it. Overall, I can't really justify my older view that FFG ought to go to lengths to promote it as the main competitive format. It's too strange for that now, too skewed.

I’d agreed with hyperspace being the superior competitive format since its inception...until now. I’m glad the format exists. It is cool to have a format which forces choices. To suggested it’s currently a well-balanced competitive format seems fairly disingenuous.

I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t think that’ll happen. Many vocal proponents of the Hyperspace format basically summarily dismissed GSP extended data for various reasons, so I’m not sure how Hyperspace data could end up being any more relevant.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Is it? In Extended, you can fly whatever ship is your favorite. Will it win or even be competitive? Well, that's a different story. But you *CAN* play it. In Hyperspace, that choice can be made for you. If you're flying ships you don't have fun with in Extended, well, you picked the list.

A big part of the point Kris was making was "...I'm not having fun right now." So yes, it's a true statement. There are two conditions to it. One, play what you want, and two, have fun playing whatever that is. Losing a large portion of the time isn't going to be fun. Sure I could put any ship on the table in extended, doesn't matter if I'm not having fun with it because it's not viable at all.

That's like letting me drive a lambo. But only letting me drive it inside a shipping container. Sure I'm in it, it's working, but in the end I'm just going to be mad I couldn't take it for a real spin, and die to CO poisoning 🤣

What are we supposed to do, tell people not to play X-wing at all just because the ship they like might not have actually been made for the game yet? Lol 😂 oh darn, guess you can't fly your favorite ship in extended either, so now that format sucks too, sucks to suck 🤣

47 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

That's like letting me drive a lambo. But only letting me drive it inside a shipping container. Sure I'm in it, it's working, but in the end I'm just going to be mad I couldn't take it for a real spin, and die to CO poisoning

Really bad analogy. It's more like letting you drive the lambo, but other drivers competing with you around the track are in F1 cars.

Honestly for the past year+ Hyperspace has been a format that is strictly played among friends and used for occasional one off events. That is enough to keep me happy at least. I am genuinely thankful that FFG continues to support it and make it officially available to those who like it. An actually restrictive format like we are getting for arguably the first time is a risk for FFG and I am sure they were aware of the reaction it could get. They actually banned Boba and Vader! That took guts and is awesome. For me the format continues to distill down the gameplay to a more digestible state and keeps me interested in playing, learning, and testing. Who knows how this cycle will turn out. That is part of the fun.

I also don't think Hyperspace will ever be a core competitive format, especially since officially organized competitive play does not exist now and likely won't for the foreseeable future. Hyperspace never really was used outside of trials and a handful of system opens. All a distant irrelevant memory at this stage. Maybe it is possible that an Atomic variant of a restricted format could be used for events in 2022 or 2023. That is a complete unknown though and a very long way off.

End of the day Play What You Want Man (PWYWM). If that means Extended, play Extended.

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

Really bad analogy. It's more like letting you drive the lambo, but other drivers competing with you around the track are in F1 cars.

And then you get run off the track, crash and burn, and get told you should've git gud and been also driving an F1 anyway 😂

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I also don't think Hyperspace will ever be a core competitive format, especially since officially organized competitive play does not exist now and likely won't for the foreseeable future. Hyperspace never really was used outside of trials and a handful of system opens . All a distant irrelevant memory at this stage. Maybe it is possible that an Atomic variant of a restricted format could be used for events in 2022 or 2023. That is a complete unknown though and a very long way off.

Sad lockdown noises.

My experience jars hard with the bolded.

Our season ran thusly- Every week, one of several relatively local stores would run a tourney, periodically there will be a trial, then we'll get an Open. All of this was HS. Once or twice a week, I'll get together with some folks and play, obviously testing HS lists.

Occasionally, some larger random event will come along, this might be Extended. And there will be a few Nationals, Extended.

We had a brief period where nearly normal service was resumed. There were 3 or 4 local tourneys I could have gone to, all were HS.

So basically, I barely play anything but Hyperspace when it comes to OP.

There are some round here that complain about that.

Current timeline of X Wing only happening on TTS and being all Extended is something of an anomaly.

11 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Sure I could put any ship on the table in extended, doesn't matter if I'm not having fun with it because it's not viable at all.

That's a balance issue, however, not a Hyperspace vs Extended issue.

Banning everything good against the lists you might want to play is an incredibly unfair ask for just about everyone else.

Previous Hyperspace editions had been well-rounded enough within the factions that it wasn't that hard, IMHO, to ask for at least equal Hyperspace time. I can't say anything like that anymore. I'm glad it exists, I think it's kinda neat. But it's not really designed to be a well-rounded format that shaves off the most broken stuff (was it ever really that?), it's instead just an interesting and thought-provoking format.

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I also don't think Hyperspace will ever be a core competitive format, especially since officially organized competitive play does not exist now and likely won't for the foreseeable future. Hyperspace never really was used outside of trials and a handful of system opens. All a distant irrelevant memory at this stage. Maybe it is possible that an Atomic variant of a restricted format could be used for events in 2022 or 2023. That is a complete unknown though and a very long way off.

In THE BEFORE TIMES, where I lived, we pretty much only had small-kit tourneys, and we'd fairly regularly swap off HS/Extended. Both seemed fine. But that's just a local experience.

There was a window where maybe it seemed like it *could* and probably *should* have become the core competitive format, but that window has closed.

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Honestly for the past year+ Hyperspace has been a format that is strictly played among friends and used for occasional one off events. That is enough to keep me happy at least. I am genuinely thankful that FFG continues to support it and make it officially available to those who like it. An actually restrictive format like we are getting for arguably the first time is a risk for FFG and I am sure they were aware of the reaction it could get. They actually banned Boba and Vader! That took guts and is awesome. For me the format continues to distill down the gameplay to a more digestible state and keeps me interested in playing, learning, and testing. Who knows how this cycle will turn out. That is part of the fun.


End of the day Play What You Want Man (PWYWM). If that means Extended, play Extended.

Fort Hyperspace is dead.

Long Live Resort Hyperspace.

It's not for everyone. It's barely any shelter from a hurricane. It's a place to party.