It's grossly transparent Hyperspace is being used as the "buy pls" format and it has like... Very few interesting options. Don't get why so many factions have so few generic options like, come on I don't even LIKE running named pilots most of the time... Ugh. Names names names!

Come on. This sucks.

Told y’all so.

one day you were going to wake up and realize this is just a curated list of toys from that you’re allowed to play with and the toys you like won’t be on it. And that they were of course going to hype up things that they want you to buy a lot of.

also the balance is totally artificial

Hyperspace has been that since day one. It's an awful format.

I think it still looks like a kinda fun, kinda nifty format. Imperials with almost exclusively generic pilots is really interesting to me.

However, I feel like this change kinda puts the nail in the coffin of Hyperspace as a * competitive * format or a * beginner * format. I don't think it really works for those this iteration.

It's a * meme * format now.

16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

It's a * meme * format now.

I dunno. Other collectable games do similarly huge mixups for competitive 'seasons' but they also dress it up narratively.

Like if HS was rotated faster and had names and little lore writeups for the nature of the 'operation' or whatever that was going on (Ex: Saying that the current HS roster for Empire is due to it being a purely imperial naval operation or whatever) it might work better. As is its kinda the worst of all worlds: The metas stagnate too quickly for people who like doing meta exploration and the cut off options are very frustrating to play with for that length of time for people who like the ships they like.

Its trying to be a curated format but it feels like it wants to be more like set rotation from a card game. "For 3 months lets do tournaments where X is true."

I kinda like this season actually. It's a heck of a good challenge to try and wrap your head around. I think we're in for a serious awakening in more than a few fronts. Going to be a few sleeper hits too I reckon as the season progresses. I'm really excited to have to deal with possible threats that I'm not familiar with.

Mostly I'm excited to take some skills I developed over my MTG career in card evaluation and set assessment and test them out here since this season will be the most unique by far. They've done me good in other games with limited formats, so I have high confidence they'll help again.

I agree with Dez that a narrative twist would help drive it, but I'm up to let the narrative be emergent.

But, my lord... this is what you wanted.

For real, though, people have been complaining about too much generic efficiency, now we have somebody complaining about having to take named pilots. There really is no winning.

The advantage to having the rotating Hyperspace format is that it keeps the meta fresh.

2 hours ago, Old Sarge said:

The advantage to having the rotating Hyperspace format is that it keeps the meta fresh.

Yeah. I think this is the virtue of HS, especially in a game with a relatively slow release schedule. I think HS should just be unafraid to be a bit more E X P E R I M E N T A L but also 'faster' as a result. Really weird metas that don't wear out their welcome.

I considered trying to make my own 'wacky' hyperspace to play with my friensd that changed more rules, sort of a 'labs' or 'challenge' mode. One thing X-wing is not super great at is scratching that 'deckbuilder/listbuilder' itch that other games get with bi-monthly or tri-monthly meta shakeups. One thing I would personally like to see is a modewhere points get mucked with to create different environments, or artificial list building restrictions exist. Creating a 'self contained' environment that has different core assumptions than 'real' X-wing.

The allure of HS is that restrictions breed creativity, but the problem is most content in X-wing isn't really used not because other stuff is forcing it out of the meta, but because its just plain bad, so the ability for just a 'legality' list to do much is rough unless it gets crazy extreme, which I don't mind but I am sure a lot of people do.

2 hours ago, Matanui3 said:

For real, though, people have been complaining about too much generic efficiency, now we have somebody complaining about having to take named pilots. There really is no winning.

Well no, but that will happen for any issue. You can't please everyone on everything. The question really is 'how many people are upset, is this the best implementation of meta shakeups, and is this meta shakeup going to be good?'

The answer is probably 'more than if generic efficiency was just nerfed and the power level overall in the game brought lower, probably not, and I think so but who knows?'

It helps that my dumb Pro-com brain tends to think of how to maximize positive reception to the same event by changing its context.

5 hours ago, Matanui3 said:

But, my lord... this is what you wanted.

For real, though, people have been complaining about too much generic efficiency, now we have somebody complaining about having to take named pilots. There really is no winning.

I guess that's the problem with a continuously evolving and changing format - you're going to see changes that a section of players don't like or agree with. What's good and fun for one player is going to annoy the heck out of another. What one player complains about is going to be another's cup of tea.

It's probably important to remember that ships and pilots rotating out of Hyperspace is the entire point of the format - not to reach some mythical perfect balance point where everything is viable, but to regularly change up what players are using and promote experimentation. Is part of that going to be about getting players to try the new ships on the block, of course it is.

I mean personally I've always preferred the "everything goes" nature of Extended, where the only thing that changes is the points value.

Am I grumpy that I can't take take generic T-70s into the top 4 of XVT? Yes. (Merl+4X is fun!)

Do I still think Hyperspace is the superior format? Yes.

But, I will say that extended should be the most fun it's ever been. Until somebody figures out the optimal list that flings munitions all over the place.

8 hours ago, dezzmont said:

I dunno. Other collectable games do similarly huge mixups for competitive 'seasons' but they also dress it up narratively.

Like if HS was rotated faster and had names and little lore writeups for the nature of the 'operation' or whatever that was going on (Ex: Saying that the current HS roster for Empire is due to it being a purely imperial naval operation or whatever) it might work better. As is its kinda the worst of all worlds: The metas stagnate too quickly for people who like doing meta exploration and the cut off options are very frustrating to play with for that length of time for people who like the ships they like.

Well, maybe "meme" is an extreme term, but "a mix-up for experienced players" seems like it'd fit better with Meme than Competitive or Beginner .

There's a strangeness and arbitrariness to it--don't get me wrong, I think it looks like fun--that move it out of being a great entry format, since list building is so non-obvious now.

Meanwhile, the choices made to curate the format don't really seem like ones that are designed to create a top-tier-competitive-balance format. The previous HS rounds seem like they did a lot to limit access to aces across the various factions, so that only a few options existed there, but always with a few options. It's spicy, it's interesting, it doesn't seem like something designed for pure balance or limited BS or such.

9 hours ago, dezzmont said:

Its trying to be a curated format but it feels like it wants to be more like set rotation from a card game. "For 3 months lets do tournaments where X is true."

I guess my point is... isn't that kinda a meme?

I’ve never been a huge fan of hyperspace. I made do, and had some fun with it along the way, softening my extremism on the subject. I still prefer extended but won’t hard refuse to go to hyper events.

For those upset now but have been a hyper advocate: you are getting what you asked for with a rotating format. It’s variety, even if some seasons aren’t the variety you want. Complain about something enough, poof it’s gone now. Good luck.

Ironically, my store champ list from pre pandemic survived the hyper cut so I can keep playing with the same thing unless I need to change to the conditions.

It is difficult to look at the hyperspace legality stuff and not think that they're being a little contemptuous of the player-base and covering that with a passive-aggressive, "What? This is what you asked for isn't it?"

There is something really cynical about the whole thing. It isn't arbitrary while at the same time it seems they've thrown out the guidelines.

I've been a big proponent of hyperspace, and I contend this might be the most interesting hyperspace season yet. Why?

Listbuilding is completely unintuitive now, at least to me. Every chassis I normally would go to for generics doesn't have access to them anymore. Every chassis I would go to for aces doesn't have access to them anymore. In Empire, no Vader or Academy Pilot. In First Order, no Epsilon Cadets (so now I don't know what to do with the Xi, which also is limited only). In CIS, generic trifighters only, no Trade Union Bombers, no generic Nantex. Scum feels less defined by the chassis than the upgrades - no Boba crew ( EDIT- Boba not in HS anyway! ), most Fangs have mod slots, CC is less obviously stapled on, tractor beam up and generic Fangs out.

Also, the limited upgrade selection feels pretty good to me, because now everything feels like an intentional choice. No upgrades feel mandatory, and lists feel so different that it's hard to say what's good. Like, is the following bad? I don't know, but I'll try it out!

Saber Squadron Ace (35)
Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Saber Squadron Ace (35)
Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Baron of the Empire (28)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

Baron of the Empire (28)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

Black Squadron Scout (33)
Thermal Detonators (3)

Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Planetary Sentinel (31)
Thermal Detonators (3)

Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZhZ200Z181XWWY181XWWY172XWW332Y172XWW332Y212XWW339WY213XW339W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

As a side note, for newer players, I don't see the restrictions as a bad thing in any way. It lets them play with what they have already and keeps them from over investing by filling all the upgrade slots. This is really common among new players, from what I've seen, so keeping the focus on the ships themselves seems constructive to me. Your mileage may vary, though.

8 hours ago, Matanui3 said:

But, my lord... this is what you wanted.

For real, though, people have been complaining about too much generic efficiency, now we have somebody complaining about having to take named pilots. There really is no winning.

Listen, I've always preferred running beefy generics because running THE HEROES does about as much for me as... Well think of something vulgar that isn't good, I guess.

idk man, Hyperspace can be cool and good but I like having good generic choices, dammit.

10 hours ago, dezzmont said:

Its trying to be a curated format but it feels like it wants to be more like set rotation from a card game. "For 3 months lets do tournaments where X is true."

Limited environments for card games like M:TG ARE curated; remember, the folks who design things like Magic are working two years in advance of when we see things. That's why they have Play Design teams. It's just that the curation occurs before the environment is actually accessible to the players.

Besides, for X-Wing particularly, I had always expected Hyperspace to be something like your above - a "rotating" format where different things come to the surface at different times, more like something being boiled than turned. I. for one, am happy to see the different directions that the format's being taken in as it becomes more "curated". I don't know what it's going to look like with X-Wing being shipped over to AMG, but hopefully it'll be something similar.

If X-Wing as we know it wasn't over and there wasn't, y'know, a pandemic going on, I would probably be a lot more interested in this.

Hyperspace is cool because it's accessible to new players and it challenges existing players by limiting their options and forcing them to get creative. Extended is an eternal trash fire because the card pool is too large and too full of cancerous 1.0 holdover. Hyperspace is the only option for a fun game.

And believe me, you are the only person who likes generics. The community has been burning over generics daring to be playable.

4 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

And believe me, you are the only person who likes generics...

...pardon?

I like it, I like it a lot. But I don't have narrow, or static, tastes so it's nice to have peculiar list build dynamics forced onto others.

6 hours ago, dezzmont said:

The allure of HS is that restrictions breed creativity

This. As @PaulRuddSays said, list building in Hyperspace this time around is actually going to require some intuition because the default choices have been removed. Scum isn't Boba+X. Imps aren't Aces. CIS lost Discords. FO lost FO swarms. Resistance lost Adv. Optics. Republic are probably an faction again. Rebels, admittedly, are kind of samey.

But now people actually have to scratch their heads and say "what works here?" and builds something that works.

26 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

And believe me, you are the only person who likes generics. The community has been burning over generics daring to be playable.

While I am definitely not a generic player and am happy to see a dip in generic play, this claim rings incredibly hollow. Plenty o' folks like playing generics.

18 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...pardon?

Sure man, whatever. You're very special, one of dozens of people who don't screech and moan at the prospect of filthy generics and devil numbers daring to win games.

3 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

Sure man, whatever. You're very special, one of dozens of people who don't screech and moan at the prospect of filthy generics and devil numbers daring to win games.

"There are dozens of us. DOZENS!"

Just now, Chumbalaya said:

Sure man, whatever. You're very special, one of dozens of people who don't screech and moan at the prospect of filthy generics and devil numbers daring to win games.

Oh, now I get it. You're prone to excessive bouts of hyperbole supported by an unearned sense of self-importance.

Everything totally makes sense now, thanks! 🙂