5 minutes ago, Bucknife said:I've thought about this a good deal.
Leaning towards Han+Poe over Rey Poe for that exact reason.
Rey Gunner ability shifts to mobile arc instead of front arc.
You lose a force unless you throw Leia crew on as well, but then you're probably losing Torps on Poe, but yeah, you get the picture.
Han+ReyGunner+Poe.
I don't think I have faith in Han, but worth a shot.
Just so we are clear. I think Poe is overcosted and bad. Currently. But I never truly understood how to fly him and I need to learn. In addition to that I have like 7 different Poe alts because more often than not any tournament giving out factions prizes gives out Poe for Resistance.
I'm mainly using Poe/Ray as a learning mechanism since I think I hit a wall ability wise and I won't improve unless it's a struggle. It's similar to what my friend does who is a religious Empire ace player. When practicing he strips down aces to almost nothing and regularly flies 160/170 points lists with the idea being if he can learn that then upgrades are just a bonus.
33 minutes ago, Flurpy said:Just so we are clear. I think Poe is overcosted and bad. Currently. But I never truly understood how to fly him and I need to learn. In addition to that I have like 7 different Poe alts because more often than not any tournament giving out factions prizes gives out Poe for Resistance.
I'm mainly using Poe/Ray as a learning mechanism since I think I hit a wall ability wise and I won't improve unless it's a struggle. It's similar to what my friend does who is a religious Empire ace player. When practicing he strips down aces to almost nothing and regularly flies 160/170 points lists with the idea being if he can learn that then upgrades are just a bonus.
Honestly? I don't think this is the type of list to learn to play Poe. I agree he's over-costed, but only "bad" in the "yes, there are better I6's" sense. In this list, Poe would shouldn't be the primary target. That means Poe would, more often than not, get free reign to do as he pleases (within reason) until Rey dies. Then he'll (probably) get bullied and run and/or die. If they go for Poe first, man...he just ducks out and Rey one-shots stuff for a while.
I think if you want to learn Poe, he has to be the obvious primary target of a list. Only then can you start learning what's a good trade for him, etc. It'll also help you learn what are good wingmates for him, which can allow for him to be traded and still pull out the game.
36 minutes ago, gennataos said:I don't think I have faith in Han, but worth a shot.
I like the thought of Han as essentially Wedge. Somewhat affordable Init 6 that's best kept cheap. Fit him into some sort of 4-ship list, and I dunno. Might work. But that's for some other thread.
//
For Han/Poe, Hrm. I said something earlier in the thread that Han with Rey gunner is probably the best the Scavenged YT gets at being a traditional kiting turret, but it's still a kinda bad ship for being a traditional kiting turret. Rey with Finn Gunner does something probably a lot stronger, but it's a really different kind of thing. Maybe Han is a better fit for a Lone Wolf Poe, but that easily still not be good enough, since if Poe is kinda bad, and Han is kinda bad, well...
Anyhow, Poe comes out to 90 points with Lone Wolf, R4, B1, Proton Torpedoes. Han with Rey gunner is 79, leaving 31 more points.
I played lots of Han Poe games, and though aces were not a problem, lists with many ships or really beefy ones were a real struggle. Also regen Jedi were a pain, but I guess that’s a bit less of a problem now...
That’s why I switched Han to Rey, to hit harder and kill faster and then clean up with Poe when she dies... but found Poe wasn’t punchy enough, so I took out Poe and put Han back in again... i need a lot more games under my belt to reach any conclusion...
Wow - lots of new ideas - seems brilliant
Remember points update is coming soon - be interesting to see what goes up and down in these Rey's lists!
In person X-Wing happening tonight for the first time since mid-March. Much excitement and Rey to be had.
Ended up playing three games with this, thinking “what of you trade Poe from PoeAAA for a slim Rey?” My opposition weren’t really optimized list, and I moved after everything, but it was fun and felt like I could make a not so great trade for board position and it would be okay. Rey presents the opposition with different problems than Poe. Like ReyAA, all of these ships at I5 is kind of magical.
ReyAAA
(70) Rey [Scavenged YT-1300]
(2) Rey's Millennium Falcon
Points: 72
(36) Tallissan Lintra [RZ-2 A-wing]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 40
(40) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 45
(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
Points: 43
Total points: 200
Edited by gennataosOn 6/17/2020 at 3:58 PM, mattcogg81 said:Wow - lots of new ideas - seems brilliant
Remember points update is coming soon - be interesting to see what goes up and down in these Rey's lists!
I’m wondering if maybe I should have waited until after pts change to play this lol. Now ffg will be like “well we were going to drop price on xyz, but not anymore” 😂
nah I doubt it. It rly isn’t game breaking, just good and fun
On 6/19/2020 at 11:34 PM, gennataos said:Ended up playing three games with this, thinking “what of you trade Poe from PoeAAA for a slim Rey?” My opposition weren’t really optimized list, and I moved after everything, but it was fun and felt like I could make a not so great trade for board position and it would be okay. Rey presents the opposition with different problems than Poe. Like ReyAA, all of these ships at I5 is kind of magical.
ReyAAA
(70) Rey [Scavenged YT-1300]
(2) Rey's Millennium Falcon
Points: 72(36) Tallissan Lintra [RZ-2 A-wing]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 40(40) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 45(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
Points: 43Total points: 200
I flew against a really light Rey at Space Jam Sydney, had Poe and something else can’t remember. I think it could have been optimized and I think I like this version better. I would maybe tweak it to get some crack shots or something, could switch out Tali for a pod. But looks fun
There was an old list, pre-points change that a few people did ok with - a naked Rey with An X-Wing and an A-Wing for support. I can't remember the exact load out, but the idea was that Rey just boosted around orbiting rather than jousting with double modded shots ... I think that 70 points for a single ship that can be so consistent is amazing value... and she can tank a lot of hurt too. End game, you can always flip that arc front/back and go full aggressive to catch people out too.
Points changes have massively changed what you can fly with her ... a fat Poe and an A-Wing ... or this little lot ...
Rey (70)
Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
L’ulo L’ampar (43)
Heroic (1)
Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200
I feel like title on Rey is more important than the Heroics on L’ulo and Tallie. Having sloops and boosts almost always available felt clutch to me.
13 minutes ago, gennataos said:I feel like title on Rey is more important than the Heroics on L’ulo and Tallie. Having sloops and boosts almost always available felt clutch to me.
to be fair, you could probably take optics off Tallie as she never wants to spend her focus anyways!
49 minutes ago, Rich P said:to be fair, you could probably take optics off Tallie as she never wants to spend her focus anyways!
People say that so often about her, but I sure get a lot of mileage out of her! In this list, I've been flying her as Rey's wingmate out of one corner, with Zizi in the middle and L'ulo on the opposite flank. If they go for Rey, I'll happily throw my least valuable ship at them, hopefully triggering her ability. If not, I'm not going to let them catch L'ulo out and the rest of the squad can get in on them in a turn or two.
I suppose the real question is....is Rey "better" than two Optics BSRs?
Having recovered from my covid experience, I finally felt comfortable getting out to the FLGS last night. I put Holdo-Rey down with Zizi and Tallie, versus Thanisson with Phasma and HLC, Ember with Concussion/Deuterium/Fanatical, and FOTP with AdvProTorp. Two games. And. Wow. I lost a total of four shields. Full disclosure: my dice were uncharacteristically hot, on top of all the mods available to the list, while his were staggeringly average.
Highlights included Tallie plinking a shield off the FOTP in the first round of combat, followed by Rey dropping five hits - and the FOTP blanked on defense, removed before he could drop his torpedo on Rey. Or Rey getting four evade results due to obstruction, Finn + force, Zizi "donating" an evade token, and Tallie having bullseye - I've never used Tallie's ability before last night. Swapping a lock token off Rey for an Evade from Zizi, who was out of arc of the attacker. In the second game, a tokenless Tallie tanked an AdvProTorp shot after my opponent rerolled blanks into blanks - that just feelsbad. Rey with an Engine Upgrade being able to boost while stressed was key at least twice - as was being able to pass stress to an A-wing once or twice.
I attempted to create a semi-dispersed obstacle band across the middle of the field; between the two of us we had four debris, one asteroid, and one cloud. My opponent seemed to be attempting to disperse the field even wider, but without cornering played into my plans a little too much. In each game, I set up with Rey on one side and the two A-Wings on the other, ready to collapse as necessary. In each game, my opponent put his Upsilon (at i1) in one corner, and his two Interceptor-y ships centered. This allowed me to slow-roll until I could see who he intended to target with Thanisson, then react. Thanisson did alter the way I flew just a little bit. Rey in the first game ended up with two tractor tokens, so I had to be a little careful. But due to out-initiativing his entire list, and given the hyper-mobility of my list, *and* my list's propensity to being stressed *all* the time, he never got to use Phasma or Ember's pilot ability. He'd basically teched for anti-swarm, and I didn't bring a swarm. In neither game did I fly specifically to chase the Holdo shenanigans - I didn't want to be that predictable. But that Range 2 bubble in a large-base ship was plenty, and having all pilots at i5 was money.
I did not discuss any strategy between games with my opponent - I wanted to see if he would pick up on anything on his own. After the second game, we did have some discussion on tactics and listbuilding. How an HLC on an Upsilon, for instance, is a difficult thing to use (unless you face a swarm). How the lack of an i5 or i6 was a dreadful hindrance to a three-ship list. How Rey *needed* to be his primary target, every time, forsaking all others no matter what else may be given up - this was the big one I expected to see in the second game, and it just didn't happen. A little Turn 0 strategy for a lumbering hulk with a massive gun. He's still a pretty new player and doesn't get to play very often, but he's picking this stuff up. In the meantime, I *loved* the mobility of this list, and the token-swapping shenanigans. This may be my go-to Resistance list for a very, very long time.
Edited by Kleeg005Ok I put Rey on the tables after a long while.
I played 3 games with Rey Zizi Kaz and 3 with Zizi and Lulo, so far all were wins but the level of my opponent wasn't stellar. Rey had finn rose cybernatic, title, korsella and hull because 193 or 190 didn't matter in my meta. I can't imagine Rey without Korsella, she actually make Rey almost manouvrable.
I ******* hate Kaz.
Seriously @Flurpy you need to tell me how you manage to have him being something better than a bloody Z95: I always end up taking a damage, usually a crit, on the first engagement while facing a plethora of ps 1 ships. In the rare occasion he gets unscathed, the lack of a linked manouver seriously hinder his efficiency.
Luckly Zizi was way behind expectation: with optics, crack shot and heroic (which seems the first thing I could cut if need arise) she was a perfect bait/flanker. I really enjoyed her.
On Lulo I'm not sure: he's definitely better than Kaz but it doesn't take much on my book. Further tests are needed. I'm also considering playing Bastian as a pseudo Biggs alongside Rey. Not sure how he will fare if the bluff isn't called thought.
5 hours ago, Sunitsa said:Ok I put Rey on the tables after a long while.
I played 3 games with Rey Zizi Kaz and 3 with Zizi and Lulo, so far all were wins but the level of my opponent wasn't stellar. Rey had finn rose cybernatic, title, korsella and hull because 193 or 190 didn't matter in my meta. I can't imagine Rey without Korsella, she actually make Rey almost manouvrable.
I ******* hate Kaz.
Seriously @Flurpy you need to tell me how you manage to have him being something better than a bloody Z95: I always end up taking a damage, usually a crit, on the first engagement while facing a plethora of ps 1 ships. In the rare occasion he gets unscathed, the lack of a linked manouver seriously hinder his efficiency.
Luckly Zizi was way behind expectation: with optics, crack shot and heroic (which seems the first thing I could cut if need arise) she was a perfect bait/flanker. I really enjoyed her.
On Lulo I'm not sure: he's definitely better than Kaz but it doesn't take much on my book. Further tests are needed. I'm also considering playing Bastian as a pseudo Biggs alongside Rey. Not sure how he will fare if the bluff isn't called thought.
I’m not @Flurpy , but I love Kaz and have had good results with him. Couple things I’ve tried:
1) Hang back. He’s a fast, interceptor-type ship, but you don’t HAVE to fly him like one. I’ve had some very decent output from him just lagging in the backfield a bit, providing cover fire against any enemy that tries to jump my front lines with a K-turn or Tallon Roll, and then (once the enemy has committed to another target), letting him off the leash as a sort of after-the-fact flanker.
2) Use him as a straight-up flanker, using an early SLAM or two to throw him into the back corner. Meanwhile the meat of your forces charges up the middle. If they turn to face Kaz, use more SLAMs to keep him as far out of reach as possible, which should allow the rest of your forces to catch your opponent in a bad spot. If they ignore him, well, you have a fast, maneuverable 3-die gun behind them. Either way, you’re winning.
It’s definitely not foolproof, but Kaz also doesn’t cost a ton; Advanced SLAM, Heroic, and Kaz’s Fireball brings him in at just 46 points. You can build him bigger, and you can strip him down a bit, but any way you cut it, he’ll typically earn his points.
I will say I have never flown him against a bunch of i1’s. That would cut his effectiveness a bit, but I think I’d try holding him back a bit and jumping in late to help clean up.
Edited by Cpt ObVus
I played a couple games with phat Rey + L’ulo & Zizi and one game with the ReyAAA list from last week. I’m pretty sure I like the ReyAAA list a whole lot better. Super Rey is awesome, but it’s always either a super easy win or a bit of a climb if the first couple engagements don’t play out well with variance.
I’m hoping the points update doesn’t torpedo ReyAAA. Zizi is likely to go up, but maybe L’ulo will come down...? We’ll see.
I will say this, I think people over corrected pretty hard on L’ulo after his points increase. I also think people who play Tallie, but don’t find room for optics, are largely playing her wrong.
Lastly, I think the RZ-2 A-Wing is my favorite ship in the game and it’s probably not even close.
Edited by gennataosHey all,
Sorry for the radio silence for abit I have been trying to get some games in! I've done 4 now with the same squad and got 2-2. All been great games - my main conclusion is Rey/Holdo and Zizi have to stay for me! Leia/Cova are brilliant but I think the points change will see this squad off. @Kleeg005 what was your exact build? Sounds very interesting!
With points change on Monday 29th June I think we will all have a better idea as everything shifts a bit. Zizi is surely going up - I think Poe will come down - not sure what else will change in Resistance faction tbh. I will reserve speculating any further until points come.
I am seeing more and more people playing Rey online now than ever and some really interesting builds - what a love about playing an almost mirror match is how other people fly a same list to me. I've seen some real aggressive Cova players which has been a real eye opener!
I think I will drift back to Rey/Holdo and 2A's in the meantime - unless I can fit a decent Leia carrier back into the build - I believe Cova's ability is just so good and it used all the time.
Time will tell - glad you all having fun and experimenting!
@mattcogg81 , for your perusal:
Rey (70)
Sense (5)
Amilyn Holdo (8)
Rose Tico (9)
Finn (10)
Engine Upgrade (7)
Rey's Millennium Falcon (2)
Ship total: 111 Half Points: 56 Threshold: 6
Zizi Tlo (40)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)
Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2
Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2
Total: 200
I completely forgot about Sense in both games - it's really just there for i6's and losing the i5 bid. The Mag-Pulse Warhead on Zizi was used to positive effect just once, so I might cut it. Although, there certainly are scenarios in which it could be much more useful, so maybe I'll keep it after all. Dunno. Tallie I kept cheap to use as a more or less throw-away pocket Ace, whereas Zizi is generally so survivable that I felt like loading him up as a mini points fortress. And apart from Sense, I *love* this version of Rey.
37 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:@mattcogg81 , for your perusal:
Rey (70)
Sense (5)
Amilyn Holdo (8)
Rose Tico (9)
Finn (10)
Engine Upgrade (7)
Rey's Millennium Falcon (2)
Ship total: 111 Half Points: 56 Threshold: 6
Zizi Tlo (40)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)
Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2
Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2
Total: 200
I completely forgot about Sense in both games - it's really just there for i6's and losing the i5 bid. The Mag-Pulse Warhead on Zizi was used to positive effect just once, so I might cut it. Although, there certainly are scenarios in which it could be much more useful, so maybe I'll keep it after all. Dunno. Tallie I kept cheap to use as a more or less throw-away pocket Ace, whereas Zizi is generally so survivable that I felt like loading him up as a mini points fortress. And apart from Sense, I *love* this version of Rey.
All looks great to me. I played a proton rocket Zizi yesterday and it was deadly - the great think about Tallie is she is just so cheap gives you a lot points to play with. My Cova/Leia obsession is clouding me too much at the moment - I need a good points change to force me to make a change I think.
2 hours ago, mattcogg81 said:All looks great to me. I played a proton rocket Zizi yesterday and it was deadly - the great think about Tallie is she is just so cheap gives you a lot points to play with. My Cova/Leia obsession is clouding me too much at the moment - I need a good points change to force me to make a change I think.
ProcketZizi sounds awesome, dunno why it never occurred to me. But yeah, I expect Zizi to get thrashed on Monday. Deservedly, I'm sure. But it will still hurt.
I don't think (hope) Zizi will go up. I really hope that FFG don't just nuke 'good' pieces.
It's not like Zizi has won anything right? Why attack a ship that basically has a slightly better force point?
On 6/27/2020 at 2:29 AM, Sunitsa said:Ok I put Rey on the tables after a long while.
I played 3 games with Rey Zizi Kaz and 3 with Zizi and Lulo, so far all were wins but the level of my opponent wasn't stellar. Rey had finn rose cybernatic, title, korsella and hull because 193 or 190 didn't matter in my meta. I can't imagine Rey without Korsella, she actually make Rey almost manouvrable.
I ******* hate Kaz.
Seriously @Flurpy you need to tell me how you manage to have him being something better than a bloody Z95: I always end up taking a damage, usually a crit, on the first engagement while facing a plethora of ps 1 ships. In the rare occasion he gets unscathed, the lack of a linked manouver seriously hinder his efficiency.
Luckly Zizi was way behind expectation: with optics, crack shot and heroic (which seems the first thing I could cut if need arise) she was a perfect bait/flanker. I really enjoyed her.
On Lulo I'm not sure: he's definitely better than Kaz but it doesn't take much on my book. Further tests are needed. I'm also considering playing Bastian as a pseudo Biggs alongside Rey. Not sure how he will fare if the bluff isn't called thought.
Unfortunately the answer is the worst I can give: "Because he fits me".
That is why I tend to shy away from giving specific advice to people, and generally tend to write about my own conclusions, observations and thoughts without trying to impose my ideas onto other people.
For Kaz, I was doing some soul searching in general for some other things, mostly work related, and realized something about myself. I "learned" how I wanted to play X-Wing much earlier than I knew what X-Wing was. When I was doing my Masters studies a couple of years ago I was two ECTS points short so I decided to take Chess as a subject, because I sucked at Chess and wanted to get better. I learned a couple of things playing Chess that might explain why I like Kaz:
1) I won against much better players just by being new and odd . There is this cool quote I like that reflects this:
“The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot.”
To me Kaz is an odd animal, something that does not fly like it "should", and I think both him and Lulu and to an extent Rey share this. They are not aces, they are not jousters, they are not beefy. They are this weird combination of a glass cannon knife fighter than can run away in a moment. So they are weird and weird fits me. I noticed that when watching my game on Stream in the UK. The commentators were calling my moves wrong, not because they were worse than me but because I was worse than them and not playing "right", and that not playing "right" takes people by surprise.
2) I liked trading pieces because it reduced the number of permutations.
I quickly realized that I can not out-think people with a full board because there are too many parts, but if I start reducing the number of figures on the board, I reduce the brain power needed to work it out. A knight and a rook against a knight and a rook are much simpler to handle, and there is only so much thinking one can do. So I reduced pieces by trading. And that is why Kaz is in the list, because its easier to think with Rey and Lulu against 5 Vultures than Rey Lulu and Kaz against 8 Vultures.
3) I reaaaally like aggressive playing.
I get bored easily so I like to rush. Most of my games do not go to time. What I noticed in Chess and in X-Wing is most people tend to think about their approach and plan it. I just run like an idiot at people. Tends to cause panic and bad moves on their part. Back to point 1 and just playing differently. SLAM Kaz is more than happy to just stupidly rush at people.
So yeah in summary: I wanted to play a weird different ship that is aggressive and doesn't care if it dies, in fact its part of the plan. If that doesn't describe Kaz nothing does. And a massive disclaimer. All of the above works against non top tier players. You can notice in my reports that I tend to win until I hit my first or at best second S tier player.
Guys Rey got cheaper, Zizi avoided the ban hammer. We are in business. Am drunk at a beach bar, more coherent thoughts tomorrow.
In short I think we benefit more from everyone else getting hit than us getting cheap.