This?

New Squadron

(36) Nodin Chavdri [Resistance Transport]
(2) R4 Astromech
(6) Ion Cannon
(6) Korr Sella
Points: 50

(51) Jessika Pava [T-70 X-wing]
(7) M9-G8
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 58

(47) Lieutenant Bastian [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 47

(40) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 45

Total points: 200

Or .

New Squadron

(36) Nodin Chavdri [Resistance Transport]
(2) R4 Astromech
(6) Ion Cannon
(6) Korr Sella
Points: 50

(51) Jessika Pava [T-70 X-wing]
(7) M9-G8
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 58

(47) Lieutenant Bastian [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 47

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

Total points: 200

Something crossing my mind:

• Jess Pava (R5 Astromech) 55
  • Extended could take BB Astromech +1 bid, if preferred.
• Bastian (--) 47
• Red Expert (Heroic, Advanced Optics) 49
• Red Expert (Heroic, Advanced Optics) 49

Heroic/Optics isn't exactly double mods, but it's a good deal better than just plain Focus. 2.571 hits expected, 61.8% chance of 3 hits. That's about 0.3 more than a plain Focus, about 0.1 less than a single reroll like M9-G8.

13 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Something crossing my mind:

• Jess Pava (R5 Astromech) 55
  • Extended could take BB Astromech +1 bid, if preferred.
• Bastian (--) 47
• Red Expert (Heroic, Advanced Optics) 49
• Red Expert (Heroic, Advanced Optics) 49

Heroic/Optics isn't exactly double mods, but it's a good deal better than just plain Focus. 2.571 hits expected, 61.8% chance of 3 hits. That's about 0.3 more than a plain Focus, about 0.1 less than a single reroll like M9-G8.

Think Bastian being the sole i2 in the list is worth having him?

27 minutes ago, arctic_rogue said:

Think Bastian being the sole i2 in the list is worth having him?

Maybe, maybe not. I often don't like flying mixed Init squads that like to stay clustered.

However, he's cheaper than a Red Expert (allowing Jess to bring an Astromech with charges, if she needs to reroll on defense), and he'll hit harder than a Red Expert, if you can get a damage dealt to something.

Overall, I think he's worth it, but I don't think he's completely mandatory, if you really hate split Init.

Currently thinking along these lines, got it on the table today and it feels good. I'm also considering 3 Black Squadron Aces w/Heroic, but passing up Jess & Bastian's passive mods is hard.

Cova Nell (38)
Heroic (1)
Jamming Beam (0)
Leia Organa (Resistance) (17)
Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 4

Jessika Pava (51)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Jamming Beam (0)
Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Lieutenant Bastian (47)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Jamming Beam (0)
Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 4

Red Squadron Expert (44)
Heroic (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Jamming Beam (0)
Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 4

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z351X172WW12WW244WWWY296XWW175WWW12Y254XWW175WWW12Y257X172WWW175WWW12&sn=CovaLeia Jess Bastian X&obs=

I hadn't realized that M9 is not hyperspace legal.

8 hours ago, Mistborn_Jedi said:

I'm also considering 3 Black Squadron Aces w/Heroic, but passing up Jess & Bastian's passive mods is hard.

They fit with 2 Heroic Blacks, R3 on Bastian (why not..) and Blackone on Jess. I don't think it's that good though

Day 1 of LVO update. There were only about 10 Resistance players in the almost-132-field. Separatists and FO similarly light. Fewer ace lists than in past tournaments though they are still performing well (first overall for the day was Vader/Whisper/Grand Quis). Tons of Scum, Imps and Rebels.

I flew Cova (Leia, Heroic), Jess, Bastian & Red Squadron Expert (Heroic). Finished 4-2 with mediocre MOV, 31st overall and made the cut to day 2. CovaLeia is just so good, totally worth the points. Hits hard, unpredictable, and survives (lost in her 2 of 6 games). Quick-ish recap:

R1 - Close W vs Republic beef. 3 ARCS and 2 Torrents...so much hull. I traded Bastian for Jag in the opening fight, which wasn’t great. Kept the pressure on the Sinker and the other ARC, ultimately got more damage through than he did and killed them both. Everything was on fire by the end (lost Bastian and Red, half Cova and Jess). Tough and close!

R2 - 200-0 L vs Guri Fenn. One of my worst losses ever. The combination of a player super familiar with his dodgy ships and hot Greens made this one an exercise in futility for me. I got some solid shots early but couldn’t push any damage through so he never had to break off and give me breathing room. Well deserved win by my opponent.

R3 - Tough W vs Emon (with Electroproton Bomb) and 2 StarVipers. You know when you travel far from home and end up playing one of the regulars from your store? That was this one. Fortunately I knew what to expect from the shenanigans, and my buddy made a crucial mistake that resulted in Emon Ion moving so close to the board edge that he couldn’t save him. Still rough recovering from the effect of that stupid bomb and taking out the resilient Vipers, but I got the job done.

(LOOOONG delay due to technical problems with Best Coast Pairings...what a disappointing product. Apparently the 40K guys had it even worse.)

R4 - Close L to Serissu and 3 StarVipers. Yes, that’s 3 games in a row against bendy barrel rolls. Hard fought game that was back and forth the whole time. He got Jess, Red & half of Cova. I got Serrissu and 1 Assassin. I needed to kill another Assassin in the last 2 turns but guessed wrong about where they’d go (of course...they double reposition in crazy ways) and didn’t get it done.

R5 - Big W versus Sear & 7 TF drones. I felt bad for my gracious opponent at how poorly this went for him. He was tired coming off a mirror match and had worse-than-average Greens. I got range control right on the opening, killing a droid and maybe losing 1 shield. Killed 2 droids the next turn and 2 the turn after that, losing Bastian. Full Cova/Jess/Red vs Sear and 2 droids was just mop up.

R6 - Solid W vs Kylo, 2 SFs, 2 FOs. I setup in the middle-ish of the board, Kylo was on left and the TIEs to the right. I immediately went all in on Kylo and pinned him against the edge of the board by turn 3, stripping his shields. He broke off and I wasn’t really in position to chase effectively, so took targets of opportunity in the TIEs. Cova was MVP here, stopping with a debris guarding her back for several turns in a row and dealing out punishment while the Xs did their thing. After I popped 2 TIEs he had to get aggressive, so he brought a limping Kylo into a R1 face off with Cova. He got her to half, but died in the process. Bastian was dead, Jess and Cova on half, he had 1 full TIE and 1 injured one. Killed the injured one while Jess and Cova setup to run to protect MVP. Full health Red was behind the other TIE and closed things out by himself.

Congrats on day 2, @Mistborn_Jedi !

54 minutes ago, Mistborn_Jedi said:

Finished 4-2 with mediocre MOV, 31st overall and made the cut to day 2.

Awesome, congratulations!

1 hour ago, Mistborn_Jedi said:

There were only about 10 Resistance players in the almost-132-field

By the way, 5 made cut! That would be an amazing cut rate!

Yeah I was about to write about Zizi. 3 more games on league night. First lose with Zizi. I have to admit its funny. At the same time it's super obvious Zizi is insanely point efficient and clearly the best ship in the list yet its not working.

Cova/Leia, Bastian/Pava + really feels like it needs a 4th beefy ship. I now played 6 games with Zizi, 6 games with Heroic Red. And every Zizi game feels like I'm not beefy enough and yet Zizi is performing massively.

I'm not sure. Leaning towards Heroic Red for the uniformity of the list.

3 hours ago, Flurpy said:

Yeah I was about to write about Zizi. 3 more games on league night. First lose with Zizi. I have to admit its funny. At the same time it's super obvious Zizi is insanely point efficient and clearly the best ship in the list yet its not working.

Cova/Leia, Bastian/Pava + really feels like it needs a 4th beefy ship. I now played 6 games with Zizi, 6 games with Heroic Red. And every Zizi game feels like I'm not beefy enough and yet Zizi is performing massively.

I'm not sure. Leaning towards Heroic Red for the uniformity of the list.

I’ve been slotting Zizi in, in place of one of my rookies, and it doesn’t quite feel right there, either.

10 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I’ve been slotting Zizi in, in place of one of my rookies, and it doesn’t quite feel right there, either.

I believe that is because Awings are such different ships. The movement due to the rear arc; the death by paper cuts vs 3/4 dice burst attacks; the constant fear of a blank out vs 7hp behind respectable 2 greens.

All together means that they - for me - have to dominate a list to be worthwhile. I think they do in XAAA. Lulo is an exception anyway. But the others are not simply fillers.

Thank you to the experts for confirming my suspicions

Back to XXX Cova it is.

Well I wasn't going to attend UK system open because of other plans but they just got freed up and I live in Milton Keynes how can I not attend. However now I'm desperstely looking for a solid list for hyper space.

I think I'm learning towards this.

Rosy Baby blues

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils Points: 42

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils Points: 42

(26) Rose Tico [Resistance Transport Pod] Points: 26

Total points: 200

Using Rose at the back to strip tokens with her consistent dice and then hammer home with the 4 X-wings. Using either of the Blues as a blocker also helps. Then Rose serves as a good blocker at the back to prevent any jousty 4k's.

My alternative is...

Jess's Rosy Reds

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(26) Rose Tico [Resistance Transport Pod] (3) Intimidation Points: 29

(26) Colossus Station Mechanic [Fireball] Points: 26 (51)

Jessika Pava [T-70 X-wing] (4) R5 Astromech (0) Integrated S-foils Points: 55

Total points: 200

Specifically using the CSM as my blocker and now getting Jess on the table for more consistent dice. Plus everything is a I3, save the CSM.

Only issue here is not knowing if the fireball will be legal or available for the tournament and not having any time on table with it.

21 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Well I wasn't going to attend UK system open because of other plans but they just got freed up and I live in Milton Keynes how can I not attend. However now I'm desperstely looking for a solid list for hyper space.

I think I'm learning towards this.

Rosy Baby blues

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils Points: 42

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils Points: 42

(26) Rose Tico [Resistance Transport Pod] Points: 26

Total points: 200

Using Rose at the back to strip tokens with her consistent dice and then hammer home with the 4 X-wings. Using either of the Blues as a blocker also helps. Then Rose serves as a good blocker at the back to prevent any jousty 4k's.

My alternative is...

Jess's Rosy Reds

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing] (0) Integrated S-foils (1) Heroic Points: 45

(26) Rose Tico [Resistance Transport Pod] (3) Intimidation Points: 29

(26) Colossus Station Mechanic [Fireball] Points: 26 (51)

Jessika Pava [T-70 X-wing] (4) R5 Astromech (0) Integrated S-foils Points: 55

Total points: 200

Specifically using the CSM as my blocker and now getting Jess on the table for more consistent dice. Plus everything is a I3, save the CSM.

Only issue here is not knowing if the fireball will be legal or available for the tournament and not having any time on table with it.

Fireball will be legal, it's the question of will it be available to buy

As for the lists, I am always weary of low intative generics without some kind of twist.

If you take Sear Swarm for example. Its not the fact that there are 8 ships thats the problem, its Sear, his Tactical Relay and Network Calculations.

I have a reputation as a lucky player, which I admit I am, but one of the reason I get labeled that is because I build lists that try to squeeze as much dice modding as possible in.

If I had to choose between 5 generic Rebel X Wings or 4 Named ones with some kind of reliability I choose 4 every time.

But its very possible I am wrong here, but I see lists that will suffer to dice variance and don't have that opscene amount of beef where it doesn't matter.

18 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

Fireball will be legal, it's the question of will it be available to buy

As for the lists, I am always weary of low intative generics without some kind of twist.

If you take Sear Swarm for example. Its not the fact that there are 8 ships thats the problem, its Sear, his Tactical Relay and Network Calculations.

I have a reputation as a lucky player, which I admit I am, but one of the reason I get labeled that is because I build lists that try to squeeze as much dice modding as possible in.

If I had to choose between 5 generic Rebel X Wings or 4 Named ones with some kind of reliability I choose 4 every time.

But its very possible I am wrong here, but I see lists that will suffer to dice variance and don't have that opscene amount of beef where it doesn't matter.

I'm absolutely aware dice variance is gonna be a thing on these lists and it does have me worried. 5A's is the only obvious choice as it appears.

The T-70's don't have alot of options for double modding in Hyperspace, nor do they have anything to support them. Bastian, Jess and Poe are the only ships that can get double mods.

I don't like flying Poe. He becomes target number 1 for your opponent. If you run him light then he has no tricks to get him out of trouble, so you spend a lot of the game holding him back. You run him heavy and he's to many points on the table.

Bastian and Jess will work in the list but aren't late gamers.

So my thinking is Beef over consistentancy. Not sure if it's the right choice.

Played the first list agains a Wolfe, Broadside, Ashoka and Obi list this week, and I won very considerable.

I may switch to 5A's.

Anyone got a current 5a list they prefer at them moment?

For all your 5A needs.

And I agree they are solid lists, I just have a hunch they will end up the same place where me and my lists end up. Perpetually playing 3-3/4-2/ getting slapped around in the pre-cut tournaments

I'm going to ramble here for a bit, feel free to ignore, I just need to think out loud.

Lets ignore the fact that the original idea of this thread is no longer legal, and let's pretend for a second 5A is not better than anything I come up with.

If we start with the base of Bastian, Pava and Heroic Leia Cova we are left with 46 points for a fourth ship. Also ignore that 4X is probably better as well, but they have their own thread so lets discuss options here. No combination of cheap filler is cheap enough to fit in two more ships so we are limited to one ship. Furthermore lets limit ourselves to Hyperspace, primarily because I am selfish and still picking a list for UK.

What does 46 points get us? So far two ideas emerged:

Heroic Advanced Optics Zizi
Heroic Red Squadron Expert

Zizi was a failed experiment, and confirmed a bad idea by other people here. This eliminates the A Wing as the fourth ship. Heroic Red Squadron Expert version was already flown to great results by other people here, so let's assume it is the correct choice for now. Now is there something we can do better for 45 points.

The way I see it the Red version brings in a fourth ship with decent initiative, decent stats, decent survivability and decent offense. Its decent, reliable and allows formulation flying and straight up jousting most lists.

The negative side of the Red is that target priority is obvious in that version, at least Red is obviously the last thing you target unless there is an opportunity too good to pass up. So for a ship to improve this list it has to:

Match the offense of a Red
Match the survivability of a Red
Match the Initiative of a Red and be able to carry Heroic
Have a dial that can keep up with the list
And finally add something to be better than a Red

So what are the ships. The Pod, unless it is Finn, cannot match a Red, and Finn is Hyperspace illegal. The Transport unless it is Cova, cannot match a Red and we already have Cova. The only other X-Wing is a Recruit and that's a straight up downgrade. So what's left? Well this stupid idea:

Kaz
R5 Astromech
Heroic

And yes use it as a jouster. Yes I know its stupid. BUT let's go through the points.

Offense. Both have 3 red dice with Heroic, until Kaz gets damaged enough to drop to two dice. The breakpoint depends on the other players initiative. Against aces Kaz doesn't reach it until he dies, against swarm its almost immediate.

Survivability. According to X-Wing Probability Calculator if an ace rolls 3 hit results against a Red it will kill it in 7.11 attacks, if it rolls 3 hit results against Zaz he will die in 7.2 attacks. Both were calculated without Heroic but since both have it evens out, and I assumed the scenario where Kaz triggers R5 in the first round to be a 3/3/6/0 ship. Of course Kaz is much more vulnerable to crits but I am not sure how to simulate it. On the other hand Kaz has a regen charge left and the ability to fix Ship crits so that mitigates the difference. What I am trying to get at is that the survivability is not dramatically different.

Initiative. Straight up upgrade from I3 to I4, which might be a huge difference in the Hyperspace meta, the list at 199 means Kaz is moving after 4 Skull Fangs for example.

Dial. Trades a white Hard 3 to get a White Hard 1. Even without the SLAM a straight upgrade.

The Improvement. Well the biggest problem with Red is that nobody cares about it. So I see two possibilities. Either people target Kaz, and roughly need the same amount of effort to kill it as a Red, suddenly making it more possible that my other ships will reach the mid game, or they ignore Kaz and let him reach the end game with a full 3/3 profile. And between a Red and Kaz for an end game I am heavily leaning towards Kaz.

So there. That's the idea. Replace Red with Kaz, change nothing else in how you fly the list. If they kill Kaz, again roughly spending the same number of shots as for a Red, you lost exactly the same amount of points as Red, and I can't remember the last time someone targeted Red in a list like this. They choose to ignore Kaz, well then Kaz still contributes exactly the same offense as Red and is a much better end game piece.

The biggest drawback of this idea is seeing how fast Kaz drops below the threshold for his ability. Since this list historically has problems with Aces and less with swarm, this also means the inclusion of Kaz makes it better against problematic lists, and worse against easier lists. Against other mid initiative efficiency lists by the time they bring Kaz below the threshold he has already done his job as a distraction.

This feels like its not stupid? Tell me how it's stupid.

3 hours ago, Flurpy said:

I'm going to ramble here for a bit, feel free to ignore, I just need to think out loud.

[Kaz]

This feels like its not stupid? Tell me how it's stupid.

It might not be. R5 Kaz to be a 3/3/6 might be fine. That's a reasonable statline. But it's also just a single action ship with nothing to improve the odds of those 3 dice. There is another weakness, however. Not all squad are pure ace, and generics will find it easy to finish off Kaz once he's a little wounded and drops to 2 green dice.

However, there is one other X-Wing option for 46 points: Advanced Optics Blue. That's probably the only realistically damage-forward ship to add. Optics on a 3-red ship is pretty solid--particularly when it's likely to get ignored in favor of higher value targets. Mathematically, it'll hit about as hard as an Outmaneuver X-Wing would.

Downside, however, is shooting after Bastian kinda stinks. Or is it... maybe LTB can nap a 2nd lock to set up for next turn?

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

It might not be. R5 Kaz to be a 3/3/6 might be fine. That's a reasonable statline. But it's also just a single action ship with nothing to improve the odds of those 3 dice. There is another weakness, however. Not all squad are pure ace, and generics will find it easy to finish off Kaz once he's a little wounded and drops to 2 green dice.

However, there is one other X-Wing option for 46 points: Advanced Optics Blue. That's probably the only realistically damage-forward ship to add. Optics on a 3-red ship is pretty solid--particularly when it's likely to get ignored in favor of higher value targets. Mathematically, it'll hit about as hard as an Outmaneuver X-Wing would.

Downside, however, is shooting after Bastian kinda stinks. Or is it... maybe LTB can nap a 2nd lock to set up for next turn?

Yeah the things you mentioned are the things that worry me as well. But

1) Pretty much whatever you add will be an unmodded 3 dice attack so thats not necessary a drawback of Kaz specifically.

2) No one is happier than me if the opponent splits fire to first bring down Kaz to the break-point and then shoots something else. The games I lose with this list come from people who pick their targets wisely, and I cant remember the last time I lost if I had multiple damaged ships at the same time, nothing pleases this list more than the opponent spreading damage around.

3) I really love the one point bid, 200 means you are always moving as the opponent picks, 199 was a huge difference maker for me in many games.

5 hours ago, Flurpy said:

Zizi was a failed experiment, and confirmed a bad idea by other people here. This eliminates the A Wing as the fourth ship.

Why is Zizi a failed experiment?

I like Kaz, but I think there's too much low-init stuff that will be out there for him to be better, generally, than another T-70.

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Why is Zizi a failed experiment?

I like Kaz, but I think there's too much low-init stuff that will be out there for him to be better, generally, than another T-70.

Failed experiment in the context of 3 beefy ships + Zizi. Zizi on her own is still S tier, just doesn't slot in into this list.

7 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Why is Zizi a failed experiment?

I like Kaz, but I think there's too much low-init stuff that will be out there for him to be better, generally, than another T-70.

1 minute ago, Flurpy said:

Failed experiment in the context of 3 beefy ships + Zizi. Zizi on her own is still S tier, just doesn't slot in into this list.

I personally agree that Zizi doesn't fit well with the way I played the list! But keep in mind that early versions of XXXx a year ago were quick to replace Lulo with Greer or Tallie and did well. It's not easy to keep inherent problems of list harmonies and player specific problems apart. It might be the second and I just wish it was the first

2 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

Failed experiment in the context of 3 beefy ships + Zizi. Zizi on her own is still S tier, just doesn't slot in into this list.

I think I'm landing on the same conclusion. I'm not giving up on her, though, because it seems like there's end-game potential in her that a fourth beefy ship can't bring.