2 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

It’s a Long-shot to be sure but Kamino as a possible destination for Moff Gideon is still in play.

Kamino is the closest planet of Rishi. No long-shot at all.

8 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

It’s a Long-shot to be sure but Kamino as a possible destination for Moff Gideon is still in play.

Or... Gideon has a mobile factory ship, maybe called the Arc Hammer, and he just uses his Argh Kittens! for missions. It is a remote possibility.

22 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

You didn’t think the weathered and worn look was more OT ?

A paintjob doesn't really dictate OT to me, but everything being weathered being OT is such a worn down aesthetic point of the OT that it's lost all meaning.

5 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Or... Gideon has a mobile factory ship, maybe called the Arc Hammer, and he just uses his Argh Kittens! for missions. It is a remote possibility.

If true Gideon's forces are larger and much more dangerous than what many of us, and those in the Mandalorian, think they are. Or perhaps?

On one planet the Empire had a Gozanti filled with officers and Stormtroopers getting supplies. On Navarro we had the initial pocket forces we see early on, who even get killed by Gideon's larger force which consisted of some Deathtroopers, Storm Troopers, a transport, speeder bikes, and Gideon's Tie. And later they had a decently manned outpost with a bit of equipment. And from the latest episode this group had Juggernauts, Ties, Shores and Storms, and some officers, some even involved in Operation Cinder. Oh and Gideon's Arquitens.

Crap, the forces Gideon has might be larger than what I had thought. Mando or Cara might have to call in the New Republic for some support. Guve them a tip of Imperial forces.

Disney Gallery: Making of Season 2 starts streaming Christmas Day !

😂 some adult language

Called it.

Dank Farrik !!!

So... tinfoil hat time:

1. I still hold to the idea that Dark Troopers are just Clankers.

2. When you-know-who showed up, and started walking through the hallways, if they used this theme... dang that would have been perfect. https://youtu.be/ZHb9T6WvvW0?t=134

3. That Fennec Shand Blue Whiskey swagger.

Is that a Lancer -class pursuit craft standing left next to the Slave 1 and Gauntlet?

HOLLY COW!

So the Mandalorian wasn't actually the Boba Fett show that Jon Favreau really wanted to make with the serial numbers filed off, it was actually the extended backdoor pilot to the Boba Fett show that Jon Favreau really wanted to make all along.

Well, I didn't see that coming.

Also, could they really not have just borrowed Sebastian Stan off the set of Falcon and Winter Soldier for a day? This CGI de-aging stuff still isn't quite there yet and I find it too distracting.

Cameo destroying the dark troopers should have been Kyle Katarn. Change my mind.

The Mandalorians still have the dumbest rules, no matter which sect you're in.

Gideon's hiding spot just being his same old Arquitens in deep space was lame, but given the budget already spent on this episode alone, I'll take it.

Imperial pilot #1: "Do you know how many millions died aboard [the Death Stars?]"

Also Imperial pilot #1: murders his co-pilot in cold blood.

This actually seems to be a real problem with current writers trying to make (former) Imperials sympathetic. Mayfield in the previous episode was just as bad. "Oh, I'm real mad at you for getting all the soldiers I served with who were just people doing their jobs killed. Now excuse me while I blow up this entire base of people just doing their jobs even though I've already successfully escaped." I guess they weren't actually trying to make the pilot sympathetic, just giving him a realistic point of view and reason to hate Cara. Still bugs me. Arguably this goes all the way back to Finn, too. I've always thought his reason for helping Poe was not being cool with the massacre of civilians rather than seeing his buds die, but even then going from the shot of him cradling a dying trooper to cheering as he blows them up is a bit jarring.

8 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Cameo destroying the dark troopers should have been Kyle Katarn. Change my mind.

Hey I love Katarn as well... but he had trouble dealing with one phase 3 darktrooper, back in the day. It was an end boss.

Also, you have to establish the character - now while, if The Mandalorian is the very first Star Wars you have ever seen, this doesn't hold weight, but since you know Kyle Katarn, that point is moot. As a story point it doesn't make sense. Besides, maybe he was off destroying the Arc Hammer?

9 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

The Mandalorians still have the dumbest rules, no matter which sect you're in.

How is it any different to pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth? Or the whole concept of right to rule based on bloodline?

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

Mayfield in the previous episode was just as bad. "Oh, I'm real mad at you for getting all the soldiers I served with who were just people doing their jobs killed. Now excuse me while I blow up this entire base of people just doing their jobs even though I've already successfully escaped."

I viewed that more as Mayfield was mad that he had to take part in Operation Cinder. Imperials breaking under the weight of the atrocities they're forced to commit is a classic. Kallus is a great example (David Oyelowo is fantastic, plus all the great quiet scenes in Rebels of alienation and emptiness). Heck, in a lot of ways, that's Vader. It's what Hux should have been in IX, as well as Jannah and the Stormtrooper revolt. Finn inspiring something real and consequential against Kylo would have been excellent. A heck of a lot more interesting than the drivel we did get in PoS RoS.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

This actually seems to be a real problem with current writers trying to make (former) Imperials sympathetic.

It was pretty early in the morning when I watched, but I didn't get that from the scene at all.

What stuck with me was him saying the galaxy cheered when Alderaan was wiped out as a blow against "terrorism." It was an unrepentant, unsympathetic piece of utter trash bragging about the greatest war crime to date in Star Wars.

I saw it as showing that most of these folks still in the Empire in ABY9 are still worthy of getting blasted on sight.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

Cameo destroying the dark troopers should have been Kyle Katarn. Change my mind.

Kyle would have been terrible there.

1. This was the Corridor Scene from Rogue One, but for Luke. Dude as a fully realized Jedi, kicking tail, is part of the bridge taking us from RotJ to TLJ. From a guy who gets winged by a guard at Jabba's palace to someone who can face down the whole First Order with a Laser Sword. You want to take that away from Luke? Really?
2. Kyle who? Like, a few of us onhere know the old EU, but "Big Reveal! Niche video game character from 25 years ago!" is just going to baffle folks. One big thing that The Mandalorian has done is expand SW Fandom, as opposed to contract it. It isn't just looking back at old stories for a few diehards, and that's VERY IMPORTANT.
3. Best to let as much as possible of the old EU remain there. I mean, folks can still go play Dark Forces, or reread the Thrawn novels. No one is breaking into your house to erase them. Telling new stories is just better.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

This CGI de-aging stuff still isn't quite there yet and I find it too distracting.

I think it looked pretty good, as far as it goes, but... kind of lifeless? There's none of Mark Hamill's charisma. Handing over precious puppet Grogu to a cold-eyed monk... eh, maybe not as heartwarming as it should be. Thank the Maker for R2-D2 to bring some actual soul.

Y'all are CRAZY with this Kyle Katarn angle.

You finally got to see Luke Skywalker at the height of his power and you aren't happy? ****.

18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I viewed that more as Mayfield was mad that he had to take part in Operation Cinder. Imperials breaking under the weight of the atrocities they're forced to commit is a classic. Kallus is a great example (David Oyelowo is fantastic, plus all the great quiet scenes in Rebels of alienation and emptiness). Heck, in a lot of ways, that's Vader. It's what Hux should have been in IX, as well as Jannah and the Stormtrooper revolt. Finn inspiring something real and consequential against Kylo would have been excellent. A heck of a lot more interesting than the drivel we did get in PoS RoS.

So I guess you can read it both ways. Mayfield talks about the civilians, sure. But he also places a lot of emphasis on the guys he served with. He specifically calls out losing a whole division.

Yeah, being burned on Imperial atrocities is one thing. But there's still a very specific callout that the grunts serving there didn't deserve to be massacred.

And he still answers that by massacring an entire base of grunts.

It's just an awkward contradiction to me. All these people who walk away from the Empire and then slaughter troops with zero remorse. Like, shouldn't it bug them even a little bit that each one of those soldiers could have come to the same conclusions they did, given the right prompts?

26 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

It was pretty early in the morning when I watched, but I didn't get that from the scene at all.

2 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

I guess they weren't actually trying to make the pilot sympathetic, just giving him a realistic point of view and reason to hate Cara.

Yeah, I literally said that.

The scene just made me think about how defectors are currently being written, that's all. And whether it applies fully here or not, there is a growing trend to adopt common fan viewpoints about the Imperials seeing the Rebels as evil and make it into explicit dialogue. While I don't think the attempt was to make the pilot seem sympathetic, it was an attempt to make him a little bit more 2D, as far as nameless mooks go. I just find it odd that these moments are always accompanied by an action that's pretty ruthless to their own teammates. Could he not have had that dialogue without murdering his partner in cold blood?

30 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

This was the Corridor Scene from Rogue One, but for Luke.

Yeah? And?

Why does that make it good?

30 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

You want to take that away from Luke? Really?

This argument doesn't make sense. You're only saying that because you saw the version where it was Luke.

If it had been filmed not as Luke, then there would have been nothing to take away from Luke.

Also, if Luke really needs his own version of the Daredevil corridor fight, then that could happen at any other time in any other show.

You know, you're actually more right than you intended. This really is the corridor fight from Rogue One, down to it being a wordless slaughter of mooks by a character that doesn't really have any place in the plot themselves.

I guess I have to put the usual disclaimers here. I love Rogue One. I loved this episode.

But here we have this show about the Mandalorian, Grogu and their allies and the plot comes to a standstill for five minutes while we watch a legacy movie character who has had zero involvement in the rest of the plot suddenly turn up and go ham. Mando, BY, Bo Katan et al literally stand stock still the whole time and just watch on a monitor, doing and saying nothing.

I really didn't hate Luke showing up at all. It was, at least, better telegraphed than Vader in Rogue One. But beloved movie characters showing up for a cool action scene doesn't necessarily enhance another story simply by being included.

35 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Kyle who? Like, a few of us onhere know the old EU, but "Big Reveal! Niche video game character from 25 years ago!" is just going to baffle folks. One big thing that The Mandalorian has done is expand SW Fandom, as opposed to contract it. It isn't just looking back at old stories for a few diehards, and that's VERY IMPORTANT.

Mando who? Fennec who? Bo Katan who? Ahsoka who? Dark Troopers, what?

You can say this about any new character. Or any character borrowed from another piece of media. Thanos showing his big ugly mug in the stinger for Avengers meant nothing to the new audience, but everything to people who read the comics. There are people out there who have never seen Clone Wars, and yet Ahsoka gets name dropped and then 'Big Revealed'.

Also, how is using Luke ****ing Skywalker instead a good example of the show expanding the fandom instead of contracting it? Is that not.... literally looking back at old stories?

39 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Best to let as much as possible of the old EU remain there. I mean, folks can still go play Dark Forces, or reread the Thrawn novels. No one is breaking into your house to erase them. Telling new stories is just better.

Sure.

So using the Dark Troopers was a bad move then, right?

Because that's old EU. They should have just left the Dark Troopers there. Folks can still go play Dark Forces if they want to see Dark Troopers.

They can go re-read the Thrawn novels if they want Thrawn too, right? Or have we already forgotten that he got name dropped in this very series too?

I guess what I'm getting it as I would prefer a bit more of an MCU take on this. I don't mind stories being changed and altered and updated, with characters composited and streamlined. But I'd like at least the bones to fit together the right way.

I would rather they either left entire stories back in Legends, or adapted them. I don't reeeeally like robbing individual elements of them and using them in totally different contexts.

If you're going to introduce Dark Troopers, I want to see Kyle Katarn involved somewhere. Having Luke show up is, to me, the equivalent of Thor showing up to defeat Red Skull. Or maybe more accurately, it's the Avengers fighting Sentinels. Like, okay fine there's a valid story case you can make for it. But everyone really wants to see the X-Men being the ones beating up the Sentinels.

44 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think it looked pretty good, as far as it goes, but... kind of lifeless? There's none of Mark Hamill's charisma. Handing over precious puppet Grogu to a cold-eyed monk... eh, maybe not as heartwarming as it should be. Thank the Maker for R2-D2 to bring some actual soul.

Totally.

It just kinda kills any acting. Again, I didn't hate it. I'll take any love for green lightsaber badass Luke we can get. It's just.... not quite there for me yet in terms of being convincing.

2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Hey I love Katarn as well... but he had trouble dealing with one phase 3 darktrooper, back in the day. It was an end boss.

Well you can't compare that. They've completely flipped things on their head in the translation from Legends to canon. In Dark Forces, the Phase 1 and 2s were the droids, and Phase 3 was the guy (Rohm Mohc) in a suit. Also, the Dark Forces Phase 3 was waaaaay bigger and badder than what we saw here.

Also also, that was pre-RotJ, pre-Jedi Kyle. This is a post-RotJ and therefore presumably Jedi Kyle we'd have been talking about here.

2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

if The Mandalorian is the very first Star Wars you have ever seen, this doesn't hold weight,

If the Mandalorian is the very first Star Wars you have ever seen, then Ahsoka, Bo-Katan and the Thrawn name drop at the very least don't hold weight.

2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

How is it any different to pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth?

Can you point to even one person who actually pledges allegiance to a piece of cloth?

2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Or the whole concept of right to rule based on bloodline?

I mean, that's pretty stupid too. I never said it wasn't.

Why do people always do this? Why is criticism of one thing in fiction somehow taken as acceptance of a thing in real life.

Also, I think you've misunderstood my point. I don't have any problem with the notion of Mandalorians accepting as leaders anyone who kills the current leader and takes the Darksaber, because they respect strength as power and it proves your strength. I do have a problem with the notion that a random dude can accidentally take the Darksaber and then not be able to cede power to an obviously better candidate . Like, a few episodes ago they were moaning about how Mando was a weird cultist. That very episode they mocked him for being 'just' a bounty hunter. And now you're telling me they have to follow him on a technicality? Lol.

Also also, it doesn't even track with the previously established continuity. Sabine Wren handed over the Darksaber to Bo Katan and made her leader already. And she accepted. I don't remember Bo Katan having to fight and defeat Sabine for that.

39 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Y'all are CRAZY with this Kyle Katarn angle.

You finally got to see Luke Skywalker at the height of his power and you aren't happy? ****.

Who said I wasn't happy?

It was a great episode. Seeing Luke swinging that green saber again was amazing.

But if you're gonna throw Dark Troopers at me and have a saber wielding bad*** take them down, I want that to be Kyle. That's all it is.

Could totally have fit, and then Kyle could have said he'd take BY to Luke.

Aaaand extra special uber bonus, they could have cast an actual actor and not needed a mushy CGI mask.

CGI Luke was a bit jarring.

Bo Katan definitely having to fight for the Dark Saber after being just casually handed it by Sabine. Din- FFS, seriously?

Everything else was the absolute best.

Dubstep Troopers is a short video mash up I need to see.

Gideon was top notch. Always.

Luke's arrival was the best. Robots get rekt.

Slave 1 vs Lambda was also the best. Looming up in the window like space Jaws was straight up horror movie. Ion Cannon, check. Rear arc check.

Dark Saber vs Beskar spear. Also best.

Boba vs Mando woman bar fight. Keeping it even. Very nice.

Bo Katans Boba disdain. Perfect. I've heard your voice a thousand times. That whole exchange was so good.

Grogu becoming a mini Ren Knight. Kinda want.

Fennec Shand actually cool AF at last.

How has it taken me this long to realise Cara's beauty spot is a tiny Rebel symbol? She's very pouty, but I can deal with it.

That nasty Lambda pilots exchange with Cara was on point. Big feels. She acted that real nice.

Fat Bib Fortuna. Omg.

Boba at the end. MOOD . The Greatest Thing Ever.

TL:DR. I liked it.

2 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Bo Katan definitely having to fight for the Dark Saber after being just casually handed it by Sabine. Din- FFS, seriously?

Context is that Sabine never really won it in combat herself (hrm... well... maybe Saxon counts, but Ursa put him down ultimately...), and Bo-Katan obviously had it taken from her by the Empire.

Regardless of the technical rules, what matters is how things would be seen by the rest of the Mandos. This would have been a circumstance that'd have made Bo-Katan look weak, and she wouldn't be able to use the Darksaber as a symbol to rule.

28 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Mando who? Fennec who? Bo Katan who? Ahsoka who? Dark Troopers, what?

For anything actually important, it took a show of 16 episodes to get here, or a tonne of appearances in Dave Filloni's last few shows (decades newer than Kyle!).

If Fennec Shand was just helping in the last episode without any of the build up, it'd have been as dumb as Kyle Katarn would have been in Luke's place.

30 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

So using the Dark Troopers was a bad move then, right?

I mean, I've been clear that I think they've just been a bunch of dumb clankers. If they'd have been called Death Troopers, maybe that'd have been better. But did Death Troopers ever actually get named on screen anyhow?

They had a cool theme song, tho.

One difference, however, is that Dark Troopers could be, like whatever. It's a nasty droid trooper, OK. That's all the info it needs. Kyle wouldn't have been like that.

The only place where I'm in favor of bringing back the old EU is where it doesn't matter. Droids and generic ships, pretty much. Mandalorian is better for having a newly minted Moff Gideon, than a rehashed Ysanne Isard.

The only real reason I like Rebels Thrawn is that it massively de-mystified him. He's just a brutal psychopath. A bit more clever than a standard Imperial, but not that much. He's just more willing to kill civilians than other imps, and like most Imperials, his own hubris is his downfall time and time again.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Y'all are CRAZY with this Kyle Katarn angle.

You finally got to see Luke Skywalker at the height of his power and you aren't happy? ****.

QFT.

I just wish the soundtrack used was The Spark.

49 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

.Also also, it doesn't even track with the previously established continuity. Sabine Wren handed over the Darksaber to Bo Katan and made her leader already. And she accepted. I don't remember Bo Katan having to fight and defeat Sabine for that.

The vibe I got was that it’s all a matter of image. Bo has been set up as leader twice before, and lost it both times. Receiving the Darksaber from Sabine was fine before as she still had support. This time around, not only did she lose Mandalor, she lost the Dark Saber itself.

(We still don’t know exactly how it went from her to Gideon, so the manner that happened could cast more shame/dishonor on her. We’ll have to see.)

So this time in trying to lay claim to the throne, Bo might not be able to gain support if she is given the role again. She has to earn it. She has to take it. And maybe it’s not just other Mandalorians she needs to win back respect from. Maybe she needs to take back her right to rule the “right way” for herself as well.

This is all supposition. We’ll have to see how the writers develop this going forward. But that’s what I got from the situation.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

But if you're gonna throw Dark Troopers at me and have a saber wielding bad*** take them down, I want that to be Kyle. That's all it is.

Could totally have fit, and then Kyle could have said he'd take BY to Luke.

Aaaand extra special uber bonus, they could have cast an actual actor and not needed a mushy CGI mask.

😕

Y'all hold onto legends way too hard, and Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight is my second favorite Star Wars game, The Moldy Crow my favorite ship. Think on that.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

W hat stuck with me was him saying the galaxy cheered when Alderaan was wiped out as a blow against "terrorism." It was an unrepentant, unsympathetic piece of utter trash bragging about the greatest war crime to date in Star Wars.

I saw it as showing that most of these folks still in the Empire in ABY9 are still worthy of getting blasted on sight.

This.

But also, this struck me as another tongue in cheek nod to the fans. The Rebels being terrorists who murdered millions on the Death Stars has been a meme for a long time. Here we get it acknowledged and rebuffed.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

T his was the Corridor Scene from Rogue One, but for Luke.

Yep. That's clearly the inspiration, and why not? That Darth Vader scene from Rogue One is easily the most amazing Star Wars moment Disney have produced so far.

And yes, it had to be Luke. And I absolutely love seeing Luke get that in-hos-prime moment.

Unfortunately, it just didn't quite hit for me. Partly the CGI (which sadly didn't even match Leia/Tarkin standards from R1), partly because it went a bit too long, but mostly the music.

I understand that the Mandalorian has it's own score, and it's distanced it self quite a bit from the films in that regard, but I just found the composition that played throughout that sequence up to the end of the episode, well... bad. Distractingly bad.

I'm nitpicking again. I still enjoyed it - and it's what I wanted to see - but it just didn't quite land like it could have.

The duel between Mando and Gideon was great. But Boba was the real highlight of the episode for me. The bickering with Bo-Katan and the post credits scene. Thicc Fortuna and Boba sitting on Jabba's throne like Ahnold at the end of Conan the Barbarian. Glorious.

I really liked the episode. True, Luke was a big...... emotionless. But just the fact to bring Luke and R2 were worth all the episode.

Dark troopers ? I would have liked to see a little more fight againt the mandalorians, to see their real strength. Obviouly, Luke was going to crush them.

My best moment ? The after-credits scene. Because we clearly see where Boba was going all the season with this episode, and it reminds me A LOT of Boba in the Clone Wars, playing with Dengar, Aurra Sing and Bossk. A real SCUMMY guy who has the armor because he it was deserved (by his father), but does not care at all about Mandalore. His armor was so important so he followed Mando until Mando got the child, and then he leaves for his own business.

Late to the party it seems. I came in *just* to also say I liked the Rhymes of the final scene in Mando and Rogue One. That was brilliant. Really shows how the writers took that George philosophy to heart.

On 12/4/2020 at 1:25 PM, theBitterFig said:

Reaching back an episode, thoughts clarified from a conversation with my brother...

• Ahsoka not training Grogu because of his attachment, while it makes sense given her experiences with Anakin, still doesn't feel right.
• Having Anakin's *attachment* be the cause of his turn to the dark side... just wrong. Kind of all George Lucas' stuff where it's kinda loving too much which leads to the Dark Side has always been nonsense.
• I mean, how does Luke win in RotJ? Because he finds love for Anakin , and is able to choose peace over violence. Which is what he does with Ben Solo at the training temple. Tempted by the Dark Side, presented with the choice of easy violence to rid the galaxy of evil, he rejects it. And it's a continual process, not a one-time thing.
• The way that George Lucas went in the Prequels--where loving too hard turns you evil--is a poison to the franchise, and drives a lot of writing into some seriously messed up places.

Luke willing to train Grogu, while Ashoka is still worried about "attachments," feels right to me. Luke hasn't spent a lifetime learning the wrong lessons about how someone turns to the Dark Side, and knows how Anakin was saved better than how he fell.