19 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Is there a better metric using the available dates, is a more interesting question to me. 

I'm open for ideas!

OVER 900

2 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Which would involve some sort of world wide ranking system.

Which would require list fortress to import that finality functionality

Both of which require additional data/effort.

Didn't say it was likely, or even feasible. Just noting that they are variables impacting the data.

6 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Didn't say it was likely, or even feasible. Just noting that they are variables impacting the data.

First one is a it complicated

Second one was a feature that juggler had. it was nice, but honestly the sample sizes on matchups were so low it was hard to draw conclusions from it.

Happy Monday!

7 minutes ago, jagsba said:

First one is a it complicated

Second one was a feature that juggler had. it was nice, but honestly the sample sizes on matchups were so low it was hard to draw conclusions from it.

But by far not for every tournament! However, the vassal league did and that was an amazing treasure trove, I loved digging through that.

@GreenDragoon I've put in everything I can for Milwaukee. Two lists don't have names on them.

Sorry for the time, but as this squad sheet from The Zack Mathews illustrates I was working with hot garbage.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

The 'best imperials' is if course wrong, the salad is the SECOND best as the whole list is lead by the tie swarm!

TIE swarm will never pick up, because no one wants to play it.

But somehow, rebel tie swarm (e.g. all the rebel 1-forward beef) is fun.


*shrug*

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

TIE swarm will never pick up, because no one wants to play it.

But somehow, rebel tie swarm (e.g. all the rebel 1-forward beef) is fun.


*shrug*

Ahem. 1 fwd *AND* one bank, sir.

4 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

@GreenDragoon I've put in everything I can for Milwaukee. Two lists don't have names on them.

Sorry for the time, but as this squad sheet from The Zack Mathews illustrates I was working with hot garbage.

Thanks a lot! I'll include it asap. Seriously though, I was happy for an opportunity to take a friendly jab at Zack's forgotten and then forbidden promise to give the definition of an ace. I didn't want to put on any pressure on you or him to enter the lists!

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

TIE swarm will never pick up, because no one wants to play it.

But somehow, rebel tie swarm (e.g. all the rebel 1-forward beef) is fun.


*shrug*

I'm increasingly confused. You are sarcastic, right? The TIE swarm is the most frequent and most successful imperial list.
The reason I ask is because I initially had written that the TIE salad is the best imperial list when I should have written second best.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Thanks a lot! I'll include it asap. Seriously though, I was happy for an opportunity to take a friendly jab at Zack's forgotten and then forbidden promise to give the definition of an ace. I didn't want to put on any pressure on you or him to enter the lists!

I also couldn't resist taking a friendly jab at that abomination of a squad list!

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Thanks a lot! I'll include it asap. Seriously though, I was happy for an opportunity to take a friendly jab at Zack's forgotten and then forbidden promise to give the definition of an ace. I didn't want to put on any pressure on you or him to enter the lists!

I'm increasingly confused. You are sarcastic, right? The TIE swarm is the most frequent and most successful imperial list.
The reason I ask is because I initially had written that the TIE salad is the best imperial list when I should have written second best.

I'm partially sarcastic.

So, in our data, we're excluding some tournaments with really large missing data.

Given that - TIE swarms are approximately 8.6% of swiss (43% of empire lists)

Rebels are 34% of swiss.

And the rebel lists are almost all just "TIE swarms" - rebel HP 4-or-5 ship lists that jousts. No real tricks other than defender impressions every 3 turns.


So... yeah, TIE swarms aren't actually that common, but they are good (caveat: 8% of a single type of list is noticeable).

10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

TIE swarm will never pick up, because no one wants to play it.

But somehow, rebel tie swarm (e.g. all the rebel 1-forward beef) is fun.


*shrug*

Tons of people playing quad phantoms too, and I'm pretty sure they only have the 1 straight, 1 bank, 1 hard, and 2 straight templates in their box.

Wow the XXAA Resistance5s is bad by now! Just 1 in 19 lists made cut?! Is that a mistake?

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Wow the XXAA Resistance5s is bad by now! Just 1 in 19 lists made cut?! Is that a mistake?

The secret is that it doesn't joust as well as Rebels and most players don't know how to not joust. I know I'm terrible at it.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Wow the XXAA Resistance5s is bad by now! Just 1 in 19 lists made cut?! Is that a mistake?

I mean...Resistance 5s was effectively an attempt at flying 4 "aces" given that much of the meta was i5 and under. With the addition of several i6s and a trend towards more low initiative spam with the new factions, being i5 seems way less important than a few weeks ago.

19 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I'm partially sarcastic.

So, in our data, we're excluding some tournaments with really large missing data.

Given that - TIE swarms are approximately 8.6% of swiss (43% of empire lists)

Rebels are 34% of swiss.

And the rebel lists are almost all just "TIE swarms" - rebel HP 4-or-5 ship lists that jousts. No real tricks other than defender impressions every 3 turns.


So... yeah, TIE swarms aren't actually that common, but they are good (caveat: 8% of a single type of list is noticeable).

Years of mynocks talking up Dallas's ability like it's a preternatural skill, combined with an inability to count above 5, the aversion to 2 die attacks, and the lack of an ace to make you feel special.

Lord you get free wins when you get past that though.

13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Wow the XXAA Resistance5s is bad by now! Just 1 in 19 lists made cut?! Is that a mistake?

How do the 5As look now? I was one of the ones in Milwaukee, and I saw there were 3 there.

My opinion is severely biased but I don't think they are a problem.

2 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Years of mynocks talking up Dallas's ability like it's a preternatural skill, combined with an inability to count above 5, the aversion to 2 die attacks, and the lack of an ace to make you feel special.

Lord you get free wins when you get past that though.

All of that and also it is actually physicslly hard, especially with the more mixed init squads that are popular. Bending over and being dexterous for your range 1 formation is kind of a pain. One of the advtanages of rebel beef is you're not married to formation at all and with the U wing you're ususally kinda just throwing your stuff out there.

3 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Years of mynocks talking up Dallas's ability like it's a preternatural skill, combined with an inability to count above 5, the aversion to 2 die attacks, and the lack of an ace to make you feel special.

Lord you get free wins when you get past that though.

This... kinda?

Most players are actually lazy when it comes to calculating multiple moves and how their ships interact with each other and the board, much less the possibilities of the opposing squad. Swarms makes one really think to be effective. That is simply anti-lazy, and anti-beer, which are both anti-free-time; therefore, anti-loved by most.

...I need more tea.

1 minute ago, clanofwolves said:

This... kinda?

Most players are actually lazy when it comes to calculating multiple moves and how their ships interact with each other and the board, much less the possibilities of the opposing squad. Swarms makes one really think to be effective. That is simply anti-lazy, and anti-beer, which are both anti-free-time; therefore, anti-loved by most.

...I need more tea.

I nearly (should have) ran a TIE Swarm without any practice at all except for figuring general movement with help from friends. With gas clouds, it is not a hard list to fly.

6 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Lord you get free wins when you get past that though.

I can vouch for this...the inability of our collective community to NOT joust is basically free wins if you can set a single dial and make reasonable decisions. I guarantee it wasn't my skill that got me wins...

4 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Most players are actually lazy when it comes to calculating multiple moves and how their ships interact with each other and the board, much less the possibilities of the opposing squad.

Most players don't like playing the game. Gotcha.

26 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Wow the XXAA Resistance5s is bad by now! Just 1 in 19 lists made cut?! Is that a mistake?

It maybe the amount of people that have seen it have success (specifically Poe/Bastian as the XX part) from Mikhail Jenkins and Andrew Cox. They might just try to pick it up and find out it's not as easy as Rebel flying. I think that as much as we believe Resistance might be a bit ahead of the power curve, at least with the RZ2 lower cost for easier list building, they still take a good pilot to perform at a consistently high level. That is likely true for not only XXAA, but 5As.

3 minutes ago, RStan said:

I think that as much as we believe Resistance might be a bit ahead of the power curve, at least with the RZ2 lower cost, they still take a good pilot to perform at a consistently high level.

Can vouch, cuz I'm not and I haven't.

24 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Wow the XXAA Resistance5s is bad by now! Just 1 in 19 lists made cut?! Is that a mistake?

I've been saying it for a while now t70s are heavily overrated, especially in the UK meta.

They have usually good matchup against empire but they are terrible against any decent rebel beef and since wedge leia + 2 is usually the archetype you need to beat I'm not surprised to see it doing bad.

XXAA is a list that want to manouver to force an optimal engage but critically lacks the gear to properly achieve that against a competent player