Don't get me wrong with RT. I love RT - it is a great line with a different feeling than DH.

BUT. Rules-wise, it has a big overlap (if you subtract the voidship rules), and it only thins out the existing lines if you create more and more. And you avoid redundancy (or worse, inconsistancies)

If you add just a handful of things, you could easily merge it:

> Voidship components and requisition of these ships/parts (take existing lists from RT and add some Askellon flavour to it)

> Voiship combat (could be taken nearly 1:1 out of RT, if too lazy to rework it )

> A Commander role

> A Navigator role or Elite class (IF you keep Navigators at all...to be honest I never really understood why such precious assets risk their lives outside of a ship EVER; and Navigator-only-action tends to bore the other players)

> a handful sanctioned Xenos classes for those who like it (esp. Kroot Mercenary, Ork Freebooter, and maybe a Dark Eldar, Eldar Ranger and/or a Tau)

This would easily allow to play RT with the DH rules, and it would even provide cool stuff from DH for your RT campaign.

And it very well should be possible to put it into a book of around 150 pages, if you keep the fluff at bay.

Lets sign a petition ;D

I'd be very much up for the next Rogue Trader to be part of DH2's system (hell, with the character creator in DH2 and some of the Master Level NPCs as inspirations such as the Rogue Trader, all we need is a decent ship combat system and we'd be done). I also think the Askellon Sector and the Pandemonium make for a great setting of Rogue Trader adventures.

For FFG, I think it would mean less effort than yet another separate 40k RPG to produce for which would be pleasing for them...God forbid they drag people away from their Star Wars lines...

And of course your DH party could use the cool RT equipment too.

If you add roles like "commander", they could even be eaisily used in a DH campaign as well.

And with voidship combat at hand, your acolytes could also take over the command of an Imperial Navy vessel with their Influence

Just an FYI for y'all, Enemies Beyond is available for preorder on Amazon!

Won't be sent out until the 24th but still better to get it earlier before it sells out.

Just an FYI for y'all, Enemies Beyond is available for preorder on Amazon!

Won't be sent out until the 24th but still better to get it earlier before it sells out.

I only buy digital copies.

If they run out then someone has seriously screwed up.

Just an FYI for y'all, Enemies Beyond is available for preorder on Amazon!

Won't be sent out until the 24th but still better to get it earlier before it sells out.

I only buy digital copies.

If they run out then someone has seriously screwed up.

True, can't beat the convience of the PDFs. I prefer them myself but me and my group are far too impatient to wait the month or so for it to release.

In related news, Enemies Beyond is already sold out on Amazon! That speaks well for the line as a whole, I'd say.

In related news, Enemies Beyond is already sold out on Amazon! That speaks well for the line as a whole, I'd say.

Selling out doesn't tell you anything unless you know how many copies were available in the first place. If it's only 10 copies, selling out over a day or two is rather weak. If it's 10 million, that's impressive. The real number is probably somewhere in between.

The actual sales numbers are irrelevant to the main point that selling out in less than a day means that Enemies Beyond is exceeding beyond (kek) initial sales expectations. Which is a positive thing no matter the inventory moved.

Call me a dinosaur (I'm not even that old haha), but whilst I acknowledge the convenience of a pdf, I much prefer the physical book in my hand. I guess this time around I have to wait for the next printing

I go only PDF, so this means waiting 6 weeks for the book. Sigh.

Call me a dinosaur (I'm not even that old haha), but whilst I acknowledge the convenience of a pdf, I much prefer the physical book in my hand. I guess this time around I have to wait for the next printing

I like having both. The books I use all the time during games, but the PDF's are a Godsend when writing new stuff (saves having to flip back and forth through physical books!).

BYE

Don't get me wrong with RT. I love RT - it is a great line with a different feeling than DH.

BUT. Rules-wise, it has a big overlap (if you subtract the voidship rules), and it only thins out the existing lines if you create more and more. And you avoid redundancy (or worse, inconsistancies)

If you add just a handful of things, you could easily merge it:

> Voidship components and requisition of these ships/parts (take existing lists from RT and add some Askellon flavour to it)

> Voiship combat (could be taken nearly 1:1 out of RT, if too lazy to rework it )

> A Commander role

> A Navigator role or Elite class (IF you keep Navigators at all...to be honest I never really understood why such precious assets risk their lives outside of a ship EVER; and Navigator-only-action tends to bore the other players)

> a handful sanctioned Xenos classes for those who like it (esp. Kroot Mercenary, Ork Freebooter, and maybe a Dark Eldar, Eldar Ranger and/or a Tau)

This would easily allow to play RT with the DH rules, and it would even provide cool stuff from DH for your RT campaign.

And it very well should be possible to put it into a book of around 150 pages, if you keep the fluff at bay.

Lets sign a petition ;D

Haven't seen you in awhile Gaunt! Welcome back!

I believe you could have almost all the Roles in RT be available as "Elite advances". After all, The original RT states that the power lvl in RT is "Roughly" equal to a DH character with 5000 xp. A beginning RT has approximately the same Influence as a new Inquisitor so there's also some Parity there for purposes of Pre-requisites. Also FYI: Only war: Hammer of the Imperium already has a "Commander" elite advance that would work fine as a template for a Rogue trader.

While on the subject of OW; I believe that RT2 could and should also allow characters to "Elite advance" into a RT game. This would easily explain a Lord Captain recruiting people from the military to fill his ranks.

As to Navigators; I'm inclined to agree with Gaunt but I have had players play them and enjoy them so I wouldn't want to deny them the option. I have always allowed my groups to hire a dedicated Navigator NPC though even if only to act as a backup! They too would fit into the category of an "Elite advance" which would represent their mutation coming to maturity. They would likely be "Noble born" homeworld and with some sort of Space-farer background.

In the realm of Starships I would like to see much of that rewritten. The current RT game makes starships at least twice as big as they were in the original Battlefleet Gothic and does not give them appropriate capabilities for their size. I would like to see that fixed! Starship combat could also do with a significant update!

Finally: I would keep some version of the ""Origin paths" for players who wish to generate RT characters from the get go!

That brings me to the one point of disagreement I have: I believe that RT2 SHOULD have it's own game rewrite! With just the amount of information I listed above, plus the focus on exploration rather than investigation, this would only seem to make sense! I also believe it would make business sense since the RT forums seem like they are the only "Old system" forum other than DH that's commonly active!

Don't get me wrong! I would buy RT2 if it was written as a supplement to DH2! It's just semantics to me either way! Following that logic though: Perhaps FFG should consider folding Deathwatch 2 into OW and thus revitalize that line as well!

What do you guys think?

I have been busy in the recent months, but trying to be here more often now ;D

I indeed really love RT, so I'd be the last one to argue against an own line for it in general.

Just from a business point of view, and from the fear that the lines are getting more and more thin and/or redundant...I'd personally decide to merge the 2 lines due to their similar power level and compatability.

You are right about the more business orientation, so maybe if it would be made a RT expansion for DH, it should have a larger scope than 150 pages. I remember some of the earlier publications of DH1 having also larger size (about ~250 pages ?), so maybe that could be sufficient to bring the most important rules and topics for RT into line with the DH2 franchise.

Rules-wise you already could take the Hierophant class as a substitute for Commander, just not fluff-wise.

But as things go currently, I'd be happy just to see ANY further expansuion made for DH2.

According to the Upcoming, Enemies Beyond are Shipping Now for over a week. I implore any early buyers for the lists of new character options and any other interesting tidbits.

According to the Upcoming, Enemies Beyond are Shipping Now for over a week. I implore any early buyers for the lists of new character options and any other interesting tidbits.

According to Amazon, it ships out to me tonight and will be arriving at my house on Wednesday. If this is to be believed, expect a full review by Wednesday night!

Hoping my FLGS gets it soon, I can't wait!

I've got a copy reserved at my local store.

http://i.imgur.com/cEbw3avh.jpg

Guess what finally came in?

I'll have my overview/review up in a few hours.

Please mention if there are any (non-elite advance) Talents that use the Leadership aptitude, and possibly stats for a Valkyrie (not too hopeful there ).

No, no valkyries unfortunately. But there is one talent that does use leadership, so there's that!

http://i.imgur.com/cEbw3avh.jpg

Guess what finally came in?

I'll have my overview/review up in a few hours.

Could you do me a massive favor and tell me a bit about the Astropath options? Currently waiting until I get my next paycheck and the book comes to my FLGS to finally get my hands on it.

Any information would be very welcome...

Especially new char creation options, talents and weapons...

http://i.imgur.com/cEbw3avh.jpg

Guess what finally came in?

I'll have my overview/review up in a few hours.

Could you do me a massive favor and tell me a bit about the Astropath options? Currently waiting until I get my next paycheck and the book comes to my FLGS to finally get my hands on it.

The astropath options operate as an elite advance, so you get about 5 unique talents and 4 new powers, all of which focus on sending/retrieving/shielding the mind for/against messages. Only thing they're missing is rules for sending messages out of system ala Rogue Trader but I assume they expect GM's to fiat that themselves.

Any information would be very welcome...

Especially new char creation options, talents and weapons...

Weapons/items are too numerous to list, but I can give a brief rundown of the new options

You get 3 new homeworlds:

Daemon

Penal

Quarantine

One new role:

Crusader

One new background:

Excorcised

Talent-wise there's 15 new ones, most of which are Daemon/Fear related.

Seriously, this thing's got a load of content. I'd say 50% or so is stuff retooled from various 1E sources to be consistent with the new rules changes of 2E. It's no doubt the most content heavy of the three ordos books so far.

My only honest complaint is the same thing I had with Enemies Without: the bestiary. If you've played BC or even 1E, the book present a variety of demons (with nice artwork at least) that you've encountered before. Nothing new or original on that end. I sincerely hope they release a bestiary book after this one with new xenos, daemons, and the like specific to the Askellon sector.

One last thing, there was discussion in this thread about making Rogue Trader a supplement to DH2E rather than its own line. There's a line towards the end of the lore section that hints at this, I think. Without giving too much away, it discusses an area of space that is uncharted beyond the Askellon sector and states that "Entire campaigns could consist of journeys into the worlds beyond Tuchulcha, with acolytes returning as dark masters at the helms of mighty fleets, ready to carve out their own empires".

Can you tell me the random roll chance for the new homeworlds? Also how does coming from a Daemon world even work?

Thank you a Lot! That Sounds good indeed.

Are there New specific worlds described (incl. CharGen details)?

Is Astropath the only Elite Package?