Add boost to the action bar. Done.

Not that I actually think they're in need of fixing.

Overcosted relative to what?

I am close to publishing a massive update to my scripts and pilot costing method. Here is the snippet for X-wings.

TL;DR: Every X-wing with the possible exception of Biggs is almost certainly overcosted, including Wedge.

-------------------------------------- wave 1 ------------------------------------
-------------------------------------- X-wings -----------------------------------

Commentary

The generic X-wings are overcosted by about 2 points, and most of the named pilots also appear to be overcosted. This generally agrees with tournament results. Biggs is the exception, and his ability is virtually impossible to mathematically predict, but he clearly has a disruptive ability that is one of the best in the game.

Decreasing the cost of the Rookie Pilot to 20 or 19 would allow 5 of them in a list, which is almost certainly why they were initially priced at 21 points during wave 1. However, now that alternatives (B-wing, Z-95) are available, generic X-wings see almost no competitive use.

Cost | PS1 Jousting Efficiency |
Ship name actual|predict| PS1 | std | range | req eff
PS2 X-wing 21 | 18.4 | 20.2 | 88.3% | 86.3% - 90% | 135%
PS4 X-wing 23 | 19.8 | 20.4 | 87.1% | 85.1% - 88.7% | 159.1%
Tarn Mison² 23 | 21.1 | 19.2 | 92.6% | 90.5% - 94.3% | 159.1%
"Hobbie"¹ 25 | 21.6 | 20.4 | 87.2% | 85.2% - 88.8% | 185%
Biggs Darklighter³ 25 | 23.6 | 18.4 | 96.6% | 94.4% - 98.4% | 185%
Garven Dreis² 26 | 23.3 | 19.5 | 91.2% | 89.1% - 92.9% | 198.6%
Jek Porkins^0.5 26 | 23.3 | 19.6 | 90.7% | 88.6% - 92.4% | 198.6%
Luke Skywalker* 28 | 26 | 21 | 93.7% | 91.6% - 95.5% | 189.1%
Wes Janson² 29 | 25.5 | 19.8 | 90.1% | 88.1% - 91.8% | 241.6%
Wedge Antilles* 29 | 26.9 | 21.1 | 93.7% | 90.3% - 96.5% | 200%

*Luke (approximation): 20% more durability
*Wedge: as per ability

This is why we need the Rogue Squadron Expansion pack.

Thats generally the problem with any game that has the Iconic unit.

Its the first one released, sets the stat benchmark and is normally the 'in the middle' choice that all others are based on and deviate from.

In this case, the TIE Fighter ended up being the baseline, at least competitively.

A 27 point wedge would lead to a ton of bellyaching in my local group

Bear in mind that a pilot does not need to be exactly at his "ideal" point cost to be competitive. you have about a 5% window that you have to land within to be taken seriously as a pilot. Blue Squadron Pilots at 22 points are a good example of this, because if you cost them based on a TIE they would be 21 points, but they are pretty competitive at 22 anyway.

Yes, they need a nudge, but unlike some of the imperial ships the xwing is still competitive due to several named pilots and R3-A2.

Eh, aside from Biggs, you don't see many of them see much play in high level tournaments. And mathematically, you would have to value their abilities extremely highly to justify them not being overcosted.

• Biggs is good because his ability fundamentally changes the game.
• Wedge and Tarn are a half-step down; they are OK but not game-breakingly powerful for their cost.
• Luke is probably another half-step down from Wedge and Tarn in terms of efficiency.
• The rest are just too expensive for what they bring.

The Xwing was essentially the backbone of the rebel fleet and it's most effective fighter. While it was not the best at any one thing it was very good at just about everything.

This description does not match the Xwing in the game. Xwings should be the most common ship being run and they aren't.

Yes, and I think the X-wing's greatest strength should be at jousting, just like the TIE Fighter. A simple cost effectiveness fix is exactly what the doctor ordered. I'm already largely past analyzing the TIE Advanced and moving onto the X-wing.

I am inclined to believe that the reason for the cost of X-wings were at least initially to stop the inclusion of 5 in a 100 points squad. If that is indeed the case, what would happen IF we could take five of them? Would that be too powerful?

That is almost certainly the reason that they were at 21 points.

However I think that 5 X-wings, while good, would not blow the doors off the meta. BXXZZZ is actually a hair more powerful on paper. The X-wings gain the advantage of no obvious target priority, and a smaller ship count so your attacks are more focused.

Overcosted relative to what?

Sorry, this was just a snippet. More to follow in a large post later. Overcosted relative to the TIE Fighter. (edit: or basically a Z-95 as well, since those 2 are about identical).

Overcosted relative to what?

I am close to publishing a massive update to my scripts and pilot costing method. Here is the snippet for X-wings.

TL;DR: Every X-wing with the possible exception of Biggs is almost certainly overcosted, including Wedge.

-------------------------------------- wave 1 ------------------------------------

-------------------------------------- X-wings -----------------------------------

Commentary

The generic X-wings are overcosted by about 2 points, and most of the named pilots also appear to be overcosted. This generally agrees with tournament results. Biggs is the exception, and his ability is virtually impossible to mathematically predict, but he clearly has a disruptive ability that is one of the best in the game.

Decreasing the cost of the Rookie Pilot to 20 or 19 would allow 5 of them in a list, which is almost certainly why they were initially priced at 21 points during wave 1. However, now that alternatives (B-wing, Z-95) are available, generic X-wings see almost no competitive use.

Cost | PS1 Jousting Efficiency |

Ship name actual|predict| PS1 | std | range | req eff

PS2 X-wing 21 | 18.4 | 20.2 | 88.3% | 86.3% - 90% | 135%

PS4 X-wing 23 | 19.8 | 20.4 | 87.1% | 85.1% - 88.7% | 159.1%

Tarn Mison² 23 | 21.1 | 19.2 | 92.6% | 90.5% - 94.3% | 159.1%

"Hobbie"¹ 25 | 21.6 | 20.4 | 87.2% | 85.2% - 88.8% | 185%

Biggs Darklighter³ 25 | 23.6 | 18.4 | 96.6% | 94.4% - 98.4% | 185%

Garven Dreis² 26 | 23.3 | 19.5 | 91.2% | 89.1% - 92.9% | 198.6%

Jek Porkins^0.5 26 | 23.3 | 19.6 | 90.7% | 88.6% - 92.4% | 198.6%

Luke Skywalker* 28 | 26 | 21 | 93.7% | 91.6% - 95.5% | 189.1%

Wes Janson² 29 | 25.5 | 19.8 | 90.1% | 88.1% - 91.8% | 241.6%

Wedge Antilles* 29 | 26.9 | 21.1 | 93.7% | 90.3% - 96.5% | 200%

*Luke (approximation): 20% more durability

*Wedge: as per ability

To the cost efficiency of a tie fighter.

I don't think X-wings need to be better jousters. Rebels already have amazing joust-craft in the B-wing and Z-95.

Whatever improvement the staple rebel craft receives, I'm hoping it's towards a more unique capability possibly enabled by access to the rare Astromech upgrade slot (the stressbot being what I'd hold up as a good example).

It may or may not fit the fluff, but in game terms I don't think you can un-seat Ties, Zs, or Bs directly from their seats as efficient direct fighters without unhinging the game balance a little bit. Having them hit harder but more awkwardly, which makes sense given their over-all better quality but lesser speed to tie-fighters, or carry specialized utility is imo the way to go (might just be biased by Wedge, though).

It's a reason why my silly proposed astromech would give a free focus (action?) after a green maneuver whereas Ties/Zs have their amazing point cost and Bs have sensor upgrades that work regardless of bumping/stress

Could possibly introduce an Astromech, with a great effect but priced low to take into account the Overpricing already present, but can only be used on PS4 or lower. Promotes non named X-Wings and even the lower skilled E-Wings so we see something other than Corran.

Or pair that with some kind of communications astromech that enables all other astromech bearing ships to hit harder against or shoot before a targeted enemy ship. It would give a nice Squadron + Leader feel where even more selfish pilots such as Wedge could chip in.

Xwings could use a little boost. Generic astromech would be my favorite fix. R2-2 astro - xwing only- gain the barrel roll icon. 1 point. It would give a reason to have the higher PS pilots besides shooting first.

X-wings are mildly unpowered. A little tweak would be nice but I think you need to be careful about constant tweaking to try and put ships over the average-efficiency line- as soon as you move one ship up, something else drops below the line. You can't have every ship having above-average efficiency.

__________________________________________________________________________

They need to have an S-Foils specific action. Sacrifice firepower that turn for an extra green dice. In addition to R2 and Luke, such a nimble X-Wing would be... Incredible.

Ewww, no. No firepower for an extra green dice is not something I'd do. even if my X didn't have a target, you know how unreliable those little boogers are.

Now, a lock X-foils mod that increased its speed (ala free boost/roll action) alongside that extra green die is something I would consider giving up fire power for.

Yes, they need fixing. Their wings need a split at their tip, a sharper nose, slightly larger cockpit windows, and a blue paintjob....

YES THIS

well, the episode VII trailer does feature the X-wing 2.0

YES THIS

__________________________________________________________________________

They need to have an S-Foils specific action. Sacrifice firepower that turn for an extra green dice. In addition to R2 and Luke, such a nimble X-Wing would be... Incredible.

Having a ship that can for example, exchange its Agility for its Firepower (2/3-3/2) once per turn, or exchange the Target Lock for the Boost ability etc would be pretty cool but is it thematic? So far we've never seen X-Wings switching mode mid battle,

Yes, they need fixing. Their wings need a split at their tip, a sharper nose, slightly larger cockpit windows, and a blue paintjob....

YES THIS

well, the episode VII trailer does feature the X-wing 2.0

YES THIS

__________________________________________________________________________

They need to have an S-Foils specific action. Sacrifice firepower that turn for an extra green dice. In addition to R2 and Luke, such a nimble X-Wing would be... Incredible.

Having a ship that can for example, exchange its Agility for its Firepower (2/3-3/2) once per turn, or exchange the Target Lock for the Boost ability etc would be pretty cool but is it thematic? So far we've never seen X-Wings switching mode mid battle,

I think they had it in a few of the video games (at least X-wing versus Tie, the N64 one, and Empire At War)

X-wings had a key you could flip to shut off fire-power to go a fair bit faster

Exactly. Also when I said Sacrifice I didn't mean get rid of. X-Wings, at least in EaW could fire with their S-Foils closed, just slower and at significantly reduced power. Not that EaW is a solid yard-stick...

X-wings are mildly unpowered. A little tweak would be nice but I think you need to be careful about constant tweaking to try and put ships over the average-efficiency line- as soon as you move one ship up, something else drops below the line. You can't have every ship having above-average efficiency.

You can, however, reduce the variance between the ships, so you don't have strong negative outliers.

X-wings are mildly unpowered. A little tweak would be nice but I think you need to be careful about constant tweaking to try and put ships over the average-efficiency line- as soon as you move one ship up, something else drops below the line. You can't have every ship having above-average efficiency.

You can, however, reduce the variance between the ships, so you don't have strong negative outliers.

MJ. I don't feel like X-wings should be looked at as jousters either. I see their role as being more diversified because of their abilities and their slots: EPT and Astromech.

I would rather see them be even one in a list with powerful astromech upgrades to change the way the game is played rather than making them simply cost effective. Though, I would not mind a -1 decrease too. I have noted that while they are okay in my games, they are generally a little outclassed.

Note that the B wing has generally taken the role of the heavy fighter. The X is more middle and has different and very effective customization. It can fit many roles at a very mild cost. (COUGH something the imperials cant do. COUGH, tie advanced. )

Here's many different variants I would like to see from the X-wing:

Rookie R2D2

Rookie R3-A2

Tarn R7

Red R2D6 DTF / Wingman / PTL / Opportunist

Hobbie R3A2

Garven (at reduced cost)

Luke Lone Wolf R2D2 (Are you really sure this isnt going to be very effective in the new meta at PS8?)

--

Wedge and Wes for me have performed very well. Wedge is one of the most powerful and useful options imo. Capable of taking down Phantoms PS9 and really hurting many other threats. I have found he is best kept at range, even one turn away on the first turn and then slowly pick off things. Adding defensive upgrades to him is hilarious. With Engine he becomes decently maneuverable.

Wedge PTL R2D2 EU

or even cheaper, just pick any of those single options. Throw in him a list with some other ships, blam. Instant gratification.

Wes VI

Wes R7-T1 Hull

There are so many good combinations. At the middle point cost they also interact very nicely in putting them into lists. They can be support or extra firepower and can be considered one of the best design choices in terms of variation.

Agreed, I think maybe a -1 point cost would not be bad.

Or a title like Wraith Squadron initiate or something.

---

EDIT: Because of the uniques having decent abilities (although the ships themselves may be overcosted), there are actually four literal slots of customization on an X-wing. Ability, EPT and Astromech and Mod. I do not count torpedo usually, though, that is possible. Its just usually not that big of a consideration.

In contrast, the Tie Advanced has maybe about 1.5 slots of customization: Mod. (Missile, ish) and Darth Vader as the only really useable ability. ALSO, that ship has not enough damage potential anyway.

Also MJ, your previous house rules had you give Jan a -1 or -2 cost... considering now how decently successful Jan + Falcon and Jan + Dash are, would you think that it might have been a little early for such decreases?

Also, in wave 3, Roark would have also been considered for a point decrease. now we know the meta has changed and thats no longer the case. (at least currently, maybe with wave 5 and 6 that will become a case again).

I'm perfectly fine with the Uniques being the go to versions of the X-wing. And you can't reduce the cost.

I would like to see some X-wing title cards like Red Leader, Red 5, or Rogue Leader. Would be a neat thematic way to give them a bump.

EDIT: Because of the uniques having decent abilities (although the ships themselves may be overcosted), there are actually four literal slots of customization on an X-wing. Ability, EPT and Astromech and Mod. I do not count torpedo usually, though, that is possible. Its just usually not that big of a consideration.

In contrast, the Tie Advanced has maybe about 1.5 slots of customization: Mod. (Missile, ish) and Darth Vader as the only really useable ability. ALSO, that ship has not enough damage potential anyway.

I would like to see some X-wing title cards like Red Leader, Red 5, or Rogue Leader. Would be a neat thematic way to give them a bump.

I really like that idea. Would be so cool. RED LEADER STANDING BY

This way you could actually make it a unique point decrease for -2 points. You still cant quite take 5 xwings in a list, but now if you take one it costs two less!

and maybe the Rogue leader does something else, not a point decrease.

X-wings are mildly unpowered. A little tweak would be nice but I think you need to be careful about constant tweaking to try and put ships over the average-efficiency line- as soon as you move one ship up, something else drops below the line. You can't have every ship having above-average efficiency.

You can, however, reduce the variance between the ships, so you don't have strong negative outliers.

MJ. I don't feel like X-wings should be looked at as jousters either. I see their role as being more diversified because of their abilities and their slots: EPT and Astromech.

I would rather see them be even one in a list with powerful astromech upgrades to change the way the game is played rather than making them simply cost effective. Though, I would not mind a -1 decrease too. I have noted that while they are okay in my games, they are generally a little outclassed.

Yeah, I would not necessarily want to reduce their cost outright by 2 points, because it's better to err on the safe side and make them just a hair worse than TIE Fighters point for point, at least at simply rolling dice at each other. So 20 points for the generic would be fair. An alternative is to give an X-wing only +1 hull upgrade for whatever would end up being the balanced cost.

Also MJ, your previous house rules had you give Jan a -1 or -2 cost... considering now how decently successful Jan + Falcon and Jan + Dash are, would you think that it might have been a little early for such decreases?

Also, in wave 3, Roark would have also been considered for a point decrease. now we know the meta has changed and thats no longer the case. (at least currently, maybe with wave 5 and 6 that will become a case again).

Possibly - but Jan being suddenly semi-popular is a side effect of the 2-ship builds being the new and temporary hotness. I'm thinking that come wave 6, the meta will reset somewhat. Jan + Han/Dash still hasn't made it deep enough into a tournament that I'm not yet that worried about dropping her cost. HWK's are, of course, extremely difficult to calculate cost for.

I have personally never called for Roark to be point adjusted down. I always thought he had one of the better abilities in the game; he is like a super-swarm tactics.

X-wings are mildly unpowered. A little tweak would be nice but I think you need to be careful about constant tweaking to try and put ships over the average-efficiency line- as soon as you move one ship up, something else drops below the line. You can't have every ship having above-average efficiency.

You can, however, reduce the variance between the ships, so you don't have strong negative outliers.

MJ. I don't feel like X-wings should be looked at as jousters either. I see their role as being more diversified because of their abilities and their slots: EPT and Astromech.

I would rather see them be even one in a list with powerful astromech upgrades to change the way the game is played rather than making them simply cost effective. Though, I would not mind a -1 decrease too. I have noted that while they are okay in my games, they are generally a little outclassed.

Yeah, I would not necessarily want to reduce their cost outright by 2 points, because it's better to err on the safe side and make them just a hair worse than TIE Fighters point for point, at least at simply rolling dice at each other. So 20 points for the generic would be fair. An alternative is to give an X-wing only +1 hull upgrade for whatever would end up being the balanced cost.

Also MJ, your previous house rules had you give Jan a -1 or -2 cost... considering now how decently successful Jan + Falcon and Jan + Dash are, would you think that it might have been a little early for such decreases?

Also, in wave 3, Roark would have also been considered for a point decrease. now we know the meta has changed and thats no longer the case. (at least currently, maybe with wave 5 and 6 that will become a case again).

Possibly - but Jan being suddenly semi-popular is a side effect of the 2-ship builds being the new and temporary hotness. I'm thinking that come wave 6, the meta will reset somewhat. Jan + Han/Dash still hasn't made it deep enough into a tournament that I'm not yet that worried about dropping her cost. HWK's are, of course, extremely difficult to calculate cost for.

I have personally never called for Roark to be point adjusted down. I always thought he had one of the better abilities in the game; he is like a super-swarm tactics.

Yes sorry, I didn't mean that you had called for a Roark decrease. That is what it sounded like I said. My bad.

I was just saying though that his ability didn't make that big of a difference in Wave 3, and I would have at least considered it.

--

How far did Jan go? I think top 8 right? at least top 16. I don't think that level of success and showing should merit that. At some point I think you have to allow the people to find the less cost effective choices they want to take for synergistic choices.

I would like to see some X-wing title cards like Red Leader, Red 5, or Rogue Leader. Would be a neat thematic way to give them a bump.

I really like that idea. Would be so cool. RED LEADER STANDING BY

This way you could actually make it a unique point decrease for -2 points. You still cant quite take 5 xwings in a list, but now if you take one it costs two less!

and maybe the Rogue leader does something else, not a point decrease.

Formation buffing

X-wing howlrunner? Who knows!?