So last weekend I was working my arse off to complete a job thanks to a pipeline screw up (Canada, I blame you). Come back from that to find out the super mega awesome reveal from Friday at GenCon was… pirates?

Uhm… sure. Okay. Whatever.

Am I the only one who just really couldn't give a ****? I mean Black Sun this and bounty hunter that… It's all a bunch of crap I never cared about. I know there's a sizable contingent of people who were positively certain that Imperials would get a Huge ship to the point of practically seeing a Thrawn card in their dreams. Am I the only one who feels that this was almost absurdly anti-climactic?

And on top of that, I can't help but think of other games I've played that started out with a design philosophy that got completely torpedoed by the game designers adding on additional expansions or factions or what have you. So far I think the incredible balance FFG's designers have struck was thanks in no small part to the fact that only two sides needed to be balanced against each other. Now we'll have a third group forcing the hands of the other two faction's abilities. No, I don't think the sky is falling, but I'm kinda thinking it looks a might cloudy.

Me too.

But, they do look fun.

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Yeah, they do seem to have a good idea of how to balance. Its definitely thoughtful and unique.

Also, 3 factions isn't a bad thing. Actually, that's one of the great things about other games: Odd faction amounts.

Magic 5

Starcraft 3

Still, I don't know any of those SV ships. Still waiting on my Imperial Huge.

I felt the same until I looked closely at how FFG executed S&V. I'm impressed so far.

I for one was pleasantly surprised. The game, on the Rebel and Imperial side, is mostly complete now anyway, so a third faction seems perfectly reasonable. I'd rather not have the sides perpetually diluted by increasingly obscure EU ships.

I look at attack wing, and I talk to the guys who play it (our league nights are the same) and every single one of them agrees that they wish it was as thoroughly balanced as X-Wing. I guess I'm just worried about something like that happening, or one new faction (which at this moment I don't really intend to play) suddenly getting all the cool new releases for a while. I mean, once the Decimator comes out, what do us TIE Jockeys have to look forward to?

Plus, I was SUUUUPER looking forward to a heavy ship that could Epically duke it out head to head with the Tantive while the fighters danced between the two slugging titans. But maybe that's just me.

I for one was pleasantly surprised. The game, on the Rebel and Imperial side, is mostly complete now anyway, so a third faction seems perfectly reasonable. I'd rather not have the sides perpetually diluted by increasingly obscure EU ships.

I will however agree wholeheartedly. Eventually they'd be using a light saber as a barrel scrape.

Well... If the bases are loaded with two outs and a full count in the bottom of the ninth, two sides will emerge with a hopeful outcome. Will it be a Grand Slam winning the game? Will it be a K or Pop-out also winning the game for the opposing team?

GenCon is a similar scenario. One side wants epic ships and fixes for old ships. The other side wanted a third (and some a fourth) faction.

Seriously, If I were at GenCon (World Series), I'd have a lean to which outcome I wanted, but ultimately, I'm just happy to be there.

And Magic is exempt from the odd factions arguement because no two (or three or four or even all five) colors can't be played together or against each other.

Playing a mixed faction list in X-Wing would be awful, however.

I'm going to just copy and paste my response to a similar post;

From a design standpoint, some of this stuff might be kinda interesting. I do find it weird that the third faction isnt anyone specific....just criminals in general.

I would of preferred it if it was a new game type...bounty hunters and pirates don't dogfight militaries, so putting them in those types of engagements seems weird. Good thing you were gone, though. You avoided all the drama!

You probably aren't alone but I suspect you're in the minority.

I am kind of over the plucky freedom fighters vs the mustache twirling fascists, so I'm keen for it.

I think the scum faction is an extremely exciting release, and I see the promise from the FFG guys that they will seek to fix/rebalance the older ships that need it as just as exciting.

I look at attack wing, and I talk to the guys who play it (our league nights are the same) and every single one of them agrees that they wish it was as thoroughly balanced as X-Wing. I guess I'm just worried about something like that happening, or one new faction (which at this moment I don't really intend to play) suddenly getting all the cool new releases for a while. I mean, once the Decimator comes out, what do us TIE Jockeys have to look forward to?

Plus, I was SUUUUPER looking forward to a heavy ship that could Epically duke it out head to head with the Tantive while the fighters danced between the two slugging titans. But maybe that's just me.

One of the problems with Attack Wing is not that it has too many factions. The problem is there is only 1 faction. There are almost no limitations on what you can field with the only cost being a 1 point penalty for fielding an upgrade with a different "faction" mark than the ship it belongs to.

Its other problem is that only stats are taken into account for points cost. Add up a ships total stats, multiply by 2, that's its points cost. Pilot abilities? Dials? Upgrade slots? None of those matter.

X-Wing has neither of these problems as the factions are kept separate and they actually point out the whole package of a ship. Also we get these same "I am worried about this game" threads EVERY time a new expansion is announced.

I truthfully was stoked at the announcement. One thing to keep in mind is that the new faction has completely open design space and plenty of area to try new things. Empire and Rebels less so as every new thing they get access to has to have the likes of Howlrunner taken into account. S&V is not constrained like this at this point and time.

Truthfully I could care less about any more huge ships...

Scum is more exciting than an Imperial huge, but epic play doesn't feel complete without one.

Third faction keeps balance in check. It's trickier to maintain power level, but it helps to make countering "that OP FotM build" easier.

As stated above, the execution is very encouraging.

From a design standpoint, some of this stuff might be kinda interesting. I do find it weird that the third faction isnt anyone specific....just criminals in general.

I would of preferred it if it was a new game type...bounty hunters and pirates don't dogfight militaries, so putting them in those types of engagements seems weird. Good thing you were gone, though. You avoided all the drama!

This is represented by them having lower pilot skills in general. Their highest is a single 8 in the form of Boba Fett.

Star Wars background is full of criminal organizations, with their own ships, launching raids on imperial, rebel, and other outposts. Now you can recreate those battles.

I would of preferred it if it was a new game type...bounty hunters and pirates don't dogfight militaries, so putting them in those types of engagements seems weird.

Umm... They don't?! Would it make more sense if we called them guerillas and terrorists? Assassins and Warmongers?

All Three factions are fighting for power. Scum and Villiany is fighting for power through credits using savvy and cat's paws. They'll dogfight when they know they will win (profit).

For me the think I don't like about it is that X-Wing thus far has been kind of like living card games in that you buy the core set and some expansions and you basically have a self contained game where someone comes over you bring out the ships you have (for both faction) form lists and play.

Now with a 3rd faction and a foreseeable expansion in that direction I doubt I will be able to maintain a self contained (complete) game. I think it will be too expensive to maintain 3 balanced factions, so I will be forced to choose which two to collect. Given that my collection is still pretty incomplete for the two factions, starting a third one is not something I plan to get into, not so much because I'm disappointed with it or anything but there is no point in buying 1 or 2 ships of a faction.. you either collect it all or not at all as far as I'm concerned. Given the price of miniatures while reasonably priced individually, as a worthy of play collection you have to get multiple copies of pretty much everything in a faction to have a proper set...

So that part is a bit disappointing. I would have rather see them support the game is less expensive ways. for example releasing new pilot cards for existing ships in confined decks to create more variety in your existing collection.

I was at the In Flight Report when they announced it. I just put my face in my hands and cried. Sort of. I really felt that this game did not need another faction. Most of my displeasure was due to money issues. How can I afford a third faction? And Armada expansions were announced. AND Imperial Assault! Yeah, I was not happy by the end of the presentation.

But that interview by Team Covenant that was posted above changed my mind. I watched it the other night and got really excited about it. It's a valid part of the Star Wars universe, and the designers are just so enthusiastic about it.

And the new Boba Fett is just too cool! I can't wait to get that "Most Wanted" pack!

P.S. I was actually very happy about all the cool stuff that was announced, but I didn't understand how the Scum and Villainy faction would mix with the Rebels and Imperials. Now I see how distinct they are, and it's actually quite intriguing.

I was in the same boat, and was fairly sure they wouldn't do another faction... I was wrong.

That said, I do like a lot of what they did, and I may be buying some of it. I like the Y wing possibilities and will buy that so I can have the upgrades and the ships, which I can use as I wish.. lol.

The new Boba Fett I may use as Imperial.. who knows. Not sure I am on board with the new faction, but I have uses for many of the upgrades.

But that is a couple months away to worry about.

I understand your point of view on this, and when I first heard the reveal my first reaction was:

"Okay, I can live with it but.... what else?"

Before that point I could not imagine this game having more than two factions. The movies are about Rebels vs Empire. What else is needed?

I'm forced to go back to my favorite comparison, which is putting this game up against TIE Fighter for PC. Is that apples and oranges? Maybe. But for me these two games give me the same feeling of dogfighting satisfaction, and for this game- hell, ANY game -to bring me back to feeling like a care-free teenager, I take my hat off in respect before it.

In that game there were three factions. Essentially. The radar would show red (Imperials), green (Rebels), or blue (Pirates). I accepted it then, so that tells me I can probably accept it now.

I have to say, two things changed my mind from "meh, take it or leave it" to "wow, I'm actually excited to see what this faction is capable of" and, dare I say, "I can't wait to use the <insert ship here>.

The first was the Scum & Villainy article from FFG. For some reason, despite whatever first impressions are received in a particular announcement, the articles have a way of shedding the right light on the subject to make it seem both viable in the game and desirable to purchase. Seeing that they fixed Fett and added a few new abilities to the game (Segnar's Loop, anyone?) really did a lot to make me think that this isn't JUST a new faction that was a copy/paste of certain aspects between Rebels and Empire, but it just might stand on it's own as a unique faction.

The second was the YouTube interview from TeamCovenant. Hearing the designers talk about this new faction really got me pumped by how they described that each faction is intended to be unique and not bleed over too much into any other. It showed me a grander picture for the game than I previously held.

Rebels are tanky, shield wielding beasts.

Imperials are fast, maneuverable swarm monsters.

And the new Scum are tricky, unpredictable assholes that will throw you for a loop.

At this point, I'm excited for the new faction and I have yet to see anyone in my local group talk bad about it.

In terms of balance, I don't think it's too much to juggle three things.

I'm excited to see where X-Wing is going from this point forward.

I don't get the money argument. Like, no one is forcing you to buy this stuff. And I doubt you'll need to buy it to remain competitive. Even if a certain great upgrade only comes out in an S&V pack, it's easy enough to trade or buy the cards individually. Complaining that FFG is making more great stuff for you to buy if you want to seems a bit odd.

I don't get the money argument. Like, no one is forcing you to buy this stuff. And I doubt you'll need to buy it to remain competitive. Even if a certain great upgrade only comes out in an S&V pack, it's easy enough to trade or buy the cards individually. Complaining that FFG is making more great stuff for you to buy if you want to seems a bit odd.

Haha! Shut up and take my money, FFG! Lovely, sinful, FFG... You're the game making company my momma warned me about.

I for one was pleasantly surprised. The game, on the Rebel and Imperial side, is mostly complete now anyway, so a third faction seems perfectly reasonable. I'd rather not have the sides perpetually diluted by increasingly obscure EU ships.

I completely agree with the increased number of obscure EU ships diluting the game. But now we have a whole faction in which to dump them.

Maybe the OP and I are alike in this matter. I am a huge fan of the Original Trilogy and have zero interest in EU, and by extension, the new faction. I have zero interest in the current models (Z-95s, E-Wings, Defenders, etc.)

I have read my share of EU, I have played my share of SW games, hell .. I even have my share of SW lego on display .. but I found most of the EU lacking in what for me, was true to the SW universe.

I find myself at a crossroads now as some of the cards, droids, etc really help out the trusty ol' Xs, Ys, Bs, As, Ties, Interceptors, etc. Do I buy these new models, only to throw them away or watch them collect dust on the shelf? I understood that FFG has run out of OT material and let in some EU when we had 2 factions. But this new faction is entirely EU (excluding Boba Fett / Slave 1 of course).

I think I need to find a like minded gaming buddy who doesn't want to see an EU salad on the table.

A Gozanti cruiser to call my own, yeeees my precioussss.

Not released revealed or spoiled to us it was!

In short, I was very surprised that an Empire capital ship wasn't in there and I couldn't care less about S&V.

I don't get the money argument. Like, no one is forcing you to buy this stuff. And I doubt you'll need to buy it to remain competitive. Even if a certain great upgrade only comes out in an S&V pack, it's easy enough to trade or buy the cards individually. Complaining that FFG is making more great stuff for you to buy if you want to seems a bit odd.

They are FORCING YOU there maybe upgrade cards you need

I like the next faction BTW

I don't get the money argument. Like, no one is forcing you to buy this stuff. And I doubt you'll need to buy it to remain competitive. Even if a certain great upgrade only comes out in an S&V pack, it's easy enough to trade or buy the cards individually. Complaining that FFG is making more great stuff for you to buy if you want to seems a bit odd.

They are FORCING YOU there maybe upgrade cards you need

I like the next faction BTW

Yeah but if someone really doesn't want the rest, they should be able to part out that starter kit out really easily. How many threads have people clammoring for extra dials, base inserts, and pilot cards?

But I digress...

I'm in the excited camp too! Boba Fett has always been my favorite bad guy, but I just can't get into Imperials. I'm thrilled to have a chance to use him now. And the way they changed him makes total sense. Imperials wield their military with brute force, so Boba Fett operates more like an assassin. He's good against a few key ships but struggles against generalist lists. With the scum, is the brute force hired for smash 'n grab missions.

*edit* And that card art is absolutely FANTASTIC!