The card itself is fine. Making the manuever red is an effective drawback. It really doesn balance the card.

I just think the combo with Navigator, which is already synergystically powerful on an obnoxious level(as it destroys a key facet of the game), needs to be made to give stress.

One could level the same complaint at the Falcon's turret

or at the TIE Phantom

yet, here we are.

They change it. The falcon obnoxiously so. The combo laughs at it and says, "Screw all your choices, they don't matter. That's too good. Not because it's broken as a good player will pick the right move anyway, but because it removes the need to make choices until later. The only choice is (Which number will I not be moving, 1 2 or 3. And that's too much. The Phantom is quite fun to play against. It adds prediction. The Falcon is so expensive for its firepower as to be balanced. But this. This is 5 points. The cost of Gunner, arguably the best upgrade in the game, and it is so much better. Yes it takes two upgrades, but I challenge you to find a better upgrade combo than this and Navigator for 5 points. It can't be done.

I get that it only goes on a limited number of pilots. But that makes it all the worse, as those ships have access to the bestbuse of 5 points in the game. You can't predict where Han Solo is going to go beyond, He will never be where you want him to be. Ever. He's already the most accurate pilot in the game. Now he's got almost as much after the fact arc dodging capability as Whisper and none of the fragility.

Bottom line is that it's necessary.

Nobody wants to fly against hordes of generic pilots anymore.

It's boring, and the only way to make it stop is to dramatically scale up the power of pilot skill.

I agree that it will be deeply unfortunate if this hurts the maneuvering mechanics which are the absolute heart and soul of this game, but I don't think it will be nearly as impactful as all that. This is just another, "zomg new card" panic attack. I think that far from reducing the importance of maneuver choices, this will increase the importance of those choices for most pilots most of the time.

That said, I like playing against 5-7 ship lists. I like flying against generic pilots in large numbers. I'm glad high Pilot Skill is worth something now though.

The card itself is fine. Making the manuever red is an effective drawback. It really doesn balance the card.

I just think the combo with Navigator, which is already synergystically powerful on an obnoxious level(as it destroys a key facet of the game), needs to be made to give stress.

One could level the same complaint at the Falcon's turret

or at the TIE Phantom

yet, here we are.

They change it. The falcon obnoxiously so. The combo laughs at it and says, "Screw all your choices, they don't matter. That's too good. Not because it's broken as a good player will pick the right move anyway, but because it removes the need to make choices until later. The only choice is (Which number will I not be moving, 1 2 or 3. And that's too much. The Phantom is quite fun to play against. It adds prediction. The Falcon is so expensive for its firepower as to be balanced. But this. This is 5 points. The cost of Gunner, arguably the best upgrade in the game, and it is so much better. Yes it takes two upgrades, but I challenge you to find a better upgrade combo than this and Navigator for 5 points. It can't be done.

I get that it only goes on a limited number of pilots. But that makes it all the worse, as those ships have access to the bestbuse of 5 points in the game. You can't predict where Han Solo is going to go beyond, He will never be where you want him to be. Ever. He's already the most accurate pilot in the game. Now he's got almost as much after the fact arc dodging capability as Whisper and none of the fragility.

Bottom line is that it's necessary.

Nobody wants to fly against hordes of generic pilots anymore.

It's boring, and the only way to make it stop is to dramatically scale up the power of pilot skill.

I agree that it will be deeply unfortunate if this hurts the maneuvering mechanics which are the absolute heart and soul of this game, but I don't think it will be nearly as impactful as all that. This is just another, "zomg new card" panic attack. I think that far from reducing the importance of maneuver choices, this will increase the importance of those choices for most pilots most of the time.

Like I said. The card itself is fine. I like it. It's a great boost to named X-Wings and the like. The combo with Navigator is not. Not unless the manuever is written to always be red. That way it cannot be used every turn and costs the pilot their action, making it a worst case scenario card, not a, "whelp I don't have to set my dial" card.

I get where you're coming from.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out?

While I don't necessarily disagree, I would note that in most other cases where 2 things occur at the same time the player gets to choose order.

I'm not trying to argue against that, it's clear cut in the FAQ:

"If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same

time, can he resolve them in any order?

Yes"

I'm just saying that does not modify the trigger as you only reveal your dial once.

The sequence in my opinion:

Trigger : reveal dial with maneuver A speed A, Direction A:

- Stay on Target, change to maneuver B with speed A (same speed as trigger)

- Navigator, change to maneuver C with direction A (same direction as trigger)

But we'll see how the FAQ goes (if there is one), could probably go either way.

I'm actually suspecting that's the answer we'll get. Not great news for Fettigator but could be worse. Sent a Rules Question to FFG earlier today, so we should know sooner than the Wave 5 FAQ.

The card itself is fine. Making the manuever red is an effective drawback. It really doesn balance the card.

I just think the combo with Navigator, which is already synergystically powerful on an obnoxious level(as it destroys a key facet of the game), needs to be made to give stress.

One could level the same complaint at the Falcon's turret

or at the TIE Phantom

yet, here we are.

They change it. The falcon obnoxiously so. The combo laughs at it and says, "Screw all your choices, they don't matter. That's too good. Not because it's broken as a good player will pick the right move anyway, but because it removes the need to make choices until later. The only choice is (Which number will I not be moving, 1 2 or 3. And that's too much. The Phantom is quite fun to play against. It adds prediction. The Falcon is so expensive for its firepower as to be balanced. But this. This is 5 points. The cost of Gunner, arguably the best upgrade in the game, and it is so much better. Yes it takes two upgrades, but I challenge you to find a better upgrade combo than this and Navigator for 5 points. It can't be done.

I get that it only goes on a limited number of pilots. But that makes it all the worse, as those ships have access to the bestbuse of 5 points in the game. You can't predict where Han Solo is going to go beyond, He will never be where you want him to be. Ever. He's already the most accurate pilot in the game. Now he's got almost as much after the fact arc dodging capability as Whisper and none of the fragility.

Bottom line is that it's necessary.

Nobody wants to fly against hordes of generic pilots anymore.

It's boring, and the only way to make it stop is to dramatically scale up the power of pilot skill.

I agree that it will be deeply unfortunate if this hurts the maneuvering mechanics which are the absolute heart and soul of this game, but I don't think it will be nearly as impactful as all that. This is just another, "zomg new card" panic attack. I think that far from reducing the importance of maneuver choices, this will increase the importance of those choices for most pilots most of the time.

If anything, the existence of the combo makes Veteran Instincts that much stronger.

That is a pretty huge assumption, and it simply isn't true. Just this past weekend I was asking if anyone had a swarm build I could go up against.

Why specifically do you think that nobody wants to fly against generic pilots?

If you pick your move and it isn't a red move, and then you use stay on target to switch to a koiogran turn are you double stressed?

There should be a way to abuse this with the enhanced scopes to block.

I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking here, why would you have to change your dial from what you originally set it to if you're the first one to move?

Well, you throw in an Intelligence Agent somewhere as well of course. Figure out where they are going, then go first and park yourself in the middle of their path, preferably with some APL's.

SuperblockORS if you will.

But alas, the large base ships can't take EPT's and Sys Upgrades together. .

Wow, another game wrecking change to the game I used to love.

The beauty of dogfighting is trying to outthink your opponent.

Now you don't need to bother, just pick a high PS ship and move where you want to after everyone else has! LMAO

From here on out it will only get worse.

No need to be so negative.

You can't take that away from him; that's his schtick. If we didn't let him spew his particularly piquant brand of bile over each new release, he'd just be another anonymous forum poster. That would mean he'd have to depend on intelligence or humor to be noticed, and--let's all be honest--that's not a plan that seems likely to work out.

People are getting bent out of shape over suppositions. Wait until the card is actually released for legal play and goes through 3 BIG tournaments. After that, if it is proving to wreak havoc without ANY counter, THEN should the discussion for "breaking the game" start.

Assuming that Navigator + Stay On Target gets worked out in such a fashion that the resulting maneuver is still red regardless of the order in which effects are resolved, I don't really see a problem. It's a card that, like Adv Cloaking Device, requires a PS bid--only this one typically can't be combined with Veteran Instincts. It also can't typically be used more often than every other round, since you have to clear the stress from last round before you can activate it again. It's also a card that's not particularly safe to use in an environment that features Ion Cannon Turrets, Flechette Torpedoes, R3-A2, Tactician, Mara Jade, etc.

Finally, it's a card that's only useful if the maneuver you planned won't work out and there's another maneuver that would. My experience flying Fett + Navigator says that just doesn't happen all that often.

They change it. The falcon obnoxiously so. The combo laughs at it and says, "Screw all your choices, they don't matter. That's too good. Not because it's broken as a good player will pick the right move anyway, but because it removes the need to make choices until later. The only choice is (Which number will I not be moving, 1 2 or 3. And that's too much. The Phantom is quite fun to play against. It adds prediction. The Falcon is so expensive for its firepower as to be balanced. But this. This is 5 points. The cost of Gunner, arguably the best upgrade in the game, and it is so much better. Yes it takes two upgrades, but I challenge you to find a better upgrade combo than this and Navigator for 5 points. It can't be done.

I get that it only goes on a limited number of pilots. But that makes it all the worse, as those ships have access to the bestbuse of 5 points in the game. You can't predict where Han Solo is going to go beyond, He will never be where you want him to be. Ever. He's already the most accurate pilot in the game. Now he's got almost as much after the fact arc dodging capability as Whisper and none of the fragility.

Rise of the Ion Pulse Missiles. You can equip all the SOT's and Navigators, but if you don't reveal a dial, there's nothing for you to change. Still iffy, but there are some counters to be found.

I do now wish for Ion mines. Fervently so.

The card itself is fine. Making the manuever red is an effective drawback. It really doesn balance the card.

I just think the combo with Navigator, which is already synergystically powerful on an obnoxious level(as it destroys a key facet of the game), needs to be made to give stress.

One could level the same complaint at the Falcon's turret

or at the TIE Phantom

yet, here we are.

They change it. The falcon obnoxiously so. The combo laughs at it and says, "Screw all your choices, they don't matter. That's too good. Not because it's broken as a good player will pick the right move anyway, but because it removes the need to make choices until later. The only choice is (Which number will I not be moving, 1 2 or 3. And that's too much. The Phantom is quite fun to play against. It adds prediction. The Falcon is so expensive for its firepower as to be balanced. But this. This is 5 points. The cost of Gunner, arguably the best upgrade in the game, and it is so much better. Yes it takes two upgrades, but I challenge you to find a better upgrade combo than this and Navigator for 5 points. It can't be done.

I get that it only goes on a limited number of pilots. But that makes it all the worse, as those ships have access to the bestbuse of 5 points in the game. You can't predict where Han Solo is going to go beyond, He will never be where you want him to be. Ever. He's already the most accurate pilot in the game. Now he's got almost as much after the fact arc dodging capability as Whisper and none of the fragility.

Bottom line is that it's necessary.

Nobody wants to fly against hordes of generic pilots anymore.

It's boring, and the only way to make it stop is to dramatically scale up the power of pilot skill.

I agree that it will be deeply unfortunate if this hurts the maneuvering mechanics which are the absolute heart and soul of this game, but I don't think it will be nearly as impactful as all that. This is just another, "zomg new card" panic attack. I think that far from reducing the importance of maneuver choices, this will increase the importance of those choices for most pilots most of the time.

If anything, the existence of the combo makes Veteran Instincts that much stronger.

That is a pretty huge assumption, and it simply isn't true. Just this past weekend I was asking if anyone had a swarm build I could go up against.

Why specifically do you think that nobody wants to fly against generic pilots?

I was employing hyperbole, of course.

But look at it this way: almost everything new lately has been directly related to reducing the prevalence of swarms and generics in the meta and increasing the viability of named pilots.

This on Dash Rendar with an Autoblaster turret could be pretty nasty

If you pick your move and it isn't a red move, and then you use stay on target to switch to a koiogran turn are you double stressed?

No. It turns a red maneuver into a red maneuver. That's a third of the reason it changes the maneuver colour rather than just stressing you, the other being green maneuvers clearing your stress and the Tycho-based abuse.

Wingman just got a lot cooler. As does Captain Yorr.

The card itself is fine. Making the manuever red is an effective drawback. It really doesn balance the card.

I just think the combo with Navigator, which is already synergystically powerful on an obnoxious level(as it destroys a key facet of the game), needs to be made to give stress.

One could level the same complaint at the Falcon's turret

or at the TIE Phantom

yet, here we are.

They change it. The falcon obnoxiously so. The combo laughs at it and says, "Screw all your choices, they don't matter. That's too good. Not because it's broken as a good player will pick the right move anyway, but because it removes the need to make choices until later. The only choice is (Which number will I not be moving, 1 2 or 3. And that's too much. The Phantom is quite fun to play against. It adds prediction. The Falcon is so expensive for its firepower as to be balanced. But this. This is 5 points. The cost of Gunner, arguably the best upgrade in the game, and it is so much better. Yes it takes two upgrades, but I challenge you to find a better upgrade combo than this and Navigator for 5 points. It can't be done.

I get that it only goes on a limited number of pilots. But that makes it all the worse, as those ships have access to the bestbuse of 5 points in the game. You can't predict where Han Solo is going to go beyond, He will never be where you want him to be. Ever. He's already the most accurate pilot in the game. Now he's got almost as much after the fact arc dodging capability as Whisper and none of the fragility.

Bottom line is that it's necessary.

Nobody wants to fly against hordes of generic pilots anymore.

It's boring, and the only way to make it stop is to dramatically scale up the power of pilot skill.

I agree that it will be deeply unfortunate if this hurts the maneuvering mechanics which are the absolute heart and soul of this game, but I don't think it will be nearly as impactful as all that. This is just another, "zomg new card" panic attack. I think that far from reducing the importance of maneuver choices, this will increase the importance of those choices for most pilots most of the time.

If anything, the existence of the combo makes Veteran Instincts that much stronger.

That is a pretty huge assumption, and it simply isn't true. Just this past weekend I was asking if anyone had a swarm build I could go up against.

Why specifically do you think that nobody wants to fly against generic pilots?

I was employing hyperbole, of course.

But look at it this way: almost everything new lately has been directly related to reducing the prevalence of swarms and generics in the meta and increasing the viability of named pilots.

I was employing hyperbole, of course.

But look at it this way: almost everything new lately has been directly related to reducing the prevalence of swarms and generics in the meta and increasing the viability of named pilots.

I disagree. Predator / Outmaneuver work great on Black Squadron swarms.

The A-Wing test Pilot and Chaadran Refit are going to make A-Wing swarms awesome.

The Z-95!!!!!!!!

just to name a few changes that promote swarms.

Just to name a few. I think you are looking at the changes and seeing only the things that you want to see. Sure there are some balance changes that bring new light to a previously un-used named pilots, but this is just general balance tweaking, it's not suggesting that generics on on the decline.

OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!

AGAIN!

FOR THE LIKE... 78TH TIME!

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHH.

Seriously?

Sky is falling stage was 3-4 pages ago, now this thread reached "we need FAQ!!!!"stage

I was employing hyperbole, of course.

But look at it this way: almost everything new lately has been directly related to reducing the prevalence of swarms and generics in the meta and increasing the viability of named pilots.

I disagree. Predator / Outmaneuver work great on Black Squadron swarms.

The A-Wing test Pilot and Chaadran Refit are going to make A-Wing swarms awesome.

The Z-95!!!!!!!!

just to name a few changes that promote swarms.

Just to name a few. I think you are looking at the changes and seeing only the things that you want to see. Sure there are some balance changes that bring new light to a previously un-used named pilots, but this is just general balance tweaking, it's not suggesting that generics on on the decline.

Fair points.

Back to Stay on Target and it's potential uses:

Arvel!

Arvel can finally be Arvel.

Back to Stay on Target and it's potential uses:

Arvel!

Arvel can finally be Arvel.

Let Arvel be Arvel!

Knocking on your cockpit window with a special delivery of proton rockets.

Sky is falling stage was 3-4 pages ago, now this thread reached "we need FAQ!!!!"stage

Yeah, but I just got to work and had to see at what point of the conversation we had hit.

This is a cool change.

This will be awesome for <specific pilot or ship>
OMG. I don't like that.

That needs a FAQ.

What about if you use it with <other ship/pilot/weapon>
OMG, that really needs a FAQ.

That's SO overpowered, they just ruined the game. Again.

You're stupid, it's not overpowered.

You're stupid.

Can't we just get along?
Pointless post about how this is a cool change trying to steer it back on topic.

Flame post that original overpowered poster obviously doesn't know how to play.

You're stupid.

Hey guys, what if you use it with aforementioned combo from 5 pages ago?

You're stupid. Go read the previous 21 pages of this thread, newb.

Of all the ships they chose to include this with the one I'm least likely to buy more than one of... Hopefully they include more copies in future ships.

Ok.. so who's buying 2 of each of the wave 5 ships.. lol.. this card is gonna be hot for some and cursed by others..

How do you define broken though? Reducing the game to pure dice rolling isn't broken -- it will still be balanced, just less fun.

I don't mind a card like this for variety, but I think it should have been unique.

Guys and gals, this game isn't broken, and I doubt FFG will let one card take it there.

One interesting wrinkle is that this almost gives Leia a reason to exist.

Still too pricey in 100 point lists but she is pretty sweet in Epic. When you have 4-5 ships bust a white K-turn, it can be game changing.

I am glad this card does give stress though. I just think fluff-wise it would have been better to have something that involved TLs.

Like you may acquire a TL at any range or you do not have to spend a TL if you are required to do so. It would make ordnance on higher PS pilots actually good.

I think the card is great and will add more flavour to an already great game. I love all the upgrades and options with combos ffg is giving us. This game has gone way past normal expectations.

I was really hoping stay on target would give a bonus to torpedo shots. That would have fixed some of the ordenance issues in the game. Still though, i believe stay on target will be another good addition. I'll be using it on my x wings, though it will be a tough choice between this and predator.

How do you define broken though? Reducing the game to pure dice rolling isn't broken -- it will still be balanced, just less fun.

I don't mind a card like this for variety, but I think it should have been unique.

I define reducing the game to pure dice rolling, as being broken.