Now if only it had said "immediately treat that maneuver as red"... Then it would be crystal clear.

The intended purpose is of course to make sure you can't use it when stressed out, that goal is reached.

The whole Navigator may have slipped passed them, or it's not that big a deal. Personally I think the latter and that Navigator will work as it does now.

First they kill the maneuverability game with even more turrets, now they kill the prediction tactics game with this combo.

I think FFG has done an amazing job with the game up till now. But this is majorly disappointing. I love the card but hate the effect it will ultimately have on the game.

Just seems like turrets and this combo lead to a dumbing down of the game. Not to mention yet another dagger for interceptors.

I want to re-iterate something real quick:
While SoT could theoretically be used every other turn, in actual play it is only useful if you have already made the wrong choice, and there is another choice that is better even if it's a red! And the better you are at the dogfighting game the less useful SoT gets. It's not enough that a 3 left bank be better than a 3 right bank, it has to be a situation where a 3 left RED bank is better than a 3 right bank. And you can only use it when you don't have stress.

Don't get me wrong, it is still very powerful, and no matter HOW good you are you wont ALWAYS choose the best possible maneuver.

But, for me at least, there is usually only 1 or 2 times a game where it would really make a huge difference, and even then I can't say if changing to another red maneuver of the same speed would always be useful. And it's only useful if you win the PS bid.

Now compare it to PTL (which I think is its primary competitor). On many ships that use it PTL is ALWAYS useful. Every turn. And beyond just allowing you to correct your mistakes, it expands the maneuvers you can do. On Soontir Fel (for example) the ability to move, boost, barrel roll, AND gain a focus EVERY TURN is WAY better in most situations than JUST being able to change your dial and gain a focus every other turn. And it is useful whether you won the PS bid or not.

Again, it's a strong card, but I think some people are over-estimating HOW useful it's going to be in the hands of a good player in comparison to the alternatives. It has a HUGE opportunity cost, both in list building and during the game, and in exchange for a benefit that could be highly situation.

Honestly, I think 2pts is a fair price, considering how much you are giving up by using it.

Not to mention yet another dagger for interceptors.

Carnor's gonna love it to position himself in the heart of the enemy formation. And you think Fel will mind a new way to stress himself?

Phantoms will just cackle maniacally. Even more.

Vader's making sure he, like his son, will be able to deliver a proton rocket up an exhaust pipe.

You could even throw it on a humble Mauler Mithel.

But the actual card interaction as it exists now is not up for debate.

Again you need to actually read my posts, because clearly you've missed the whole point behind all of them.

Your point seems to be based on a misunderstanding, as I've been trying to explain.

Stay on Target does not effect every maneuver on your dial.

Stay on Target does not effect a group of maneuvers on your dial.

Stay on target effects one and only one maneuver on your dial.

If that's not what we're talking about, I really am missing your point.

I'm just not seeing this being broken when compared with things like PTL/Advanced Sensors B-Wings, and Soontir Fel/PTL. And definitely not compared to a souped up Phantom.

Good positioned with ultra high agility ships you could already basically choose your position every turn (if in a more limited manner), and you could do it EVERY turn WITH actions and/or an EPT. I honestly don't see this being that great on those ships. PTL (and possibly Advanced Sensors) brings a lot more to the table, in my opinion. Late turn positioning every turn (though more limited), but with actions and/or an EPT is much more useful.

Where I see this really helping is with ships that don't have those maneuverability options, like Wedge. For them the addition of late turn maneuvering choices is huge. But certainly not broken, as it's still weaker than what Soontir Fel could already pull off.

Long story short, I don't see it as being any more scary or disastrous to the movement game than any of the ultra-maneuverable ship combos we already had. It's just expanding which ships get those benefits.

As for for Navigator combo...eh, not to worried about it. Of the ships that take it, only the Phantom (and soon, B-Wing) really gain much benefit from it. And of those two, I think only the B-Wing is REALLY going to want it, as the phantom can place it self almost at will.

I think the thing it is going to be most useful for is to help REACT against OTHER ships that can late maneuver, like that Phantom.

All in all, it doesn't sound broken to me, and seems like a fun addition.

Maybe fun if you are the one using the it.

Imagine you are going up against Chewbacca+Navigator+StayOnTarget, and Dash Rendar +Outrider, HLC, and StayOnTarget.

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Your point seems to be based on a misunderstanding, as I've been trying to explain.

I'm not trying to say how it works, and I've said that a number of times. I'm pointing out the justification and logic they could use in the FAQ to make it so SoT and Navigator don't change the color of the maneuver. Assuming of course they feel that SoT + Nav shouldn't work together.

I fully understand how the card works right now, and how it interacts with Navigator.

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5 and Dash is PS7 so it's not that hard to win the PS build against Chewie at least.

I'm just not seeing this being broken when compared with things like PTL/Advanced Sensors B-Wings, and Soontir Fel/PTL. And definitely not compared to a souped up Phantom.

Good positioned with ultra high agility ships you could already basically choose your position every turn (if in a more limited manner), and you could do it EVERY turn WITH actions and/or an EPT. I honestly don't see this being that great on those ships. PTL (and possibly Advanced Sensors) brings a lot more to the table, in my opinion. Late turn positioning every turn (though more limited), but with actions and/or an EPT is much more useful.

Where I see this really helping is with ships that don't have those maneuverability options, like Wedge. For them the addition of late turn maneuvering choices is huge. But certainly not broken, as it's still weaker than what Soontir Fel could already pull off.

Long story short, I don't see it as being any more scary or disastrous to the movement game than any of the ultra-maneuverable ship combos we already had. It's just expanding which ships get those benefits.

As for for Navigator combo...eh, not to worried about it. Of the ships that take it, only the Phantom (and soon, B-Wing) really gain much benefit from it. And of those two, I think only the B-Wing is REALLY going to want it, as the phantom can place it self almost at will.

I think the thing it is going to be most useful for is to help REACT against OTHER ships that can late maneuver, like that Phantom.

All in all, it doesn't sound broken to me, and seems like a fun addition.

Maybe fun if you are the one using the it.

Imagine you are going up against Chewbacca+Navigator+StayOnTarget, and Dash Rendar +Outrider, HLC, and StayOnTarget.

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5.

It'd be really easy to get shots on him, and that'd be 5 less points of superfalcon to worry about, losing either C3pO or Luke. As well as his EPT slot.

I'm just not seeing this being broken when compared with things like PTL/Advanced Sensors B-Wings, and Soontir Fel/PTL. And definitely not compared to a souped up Phantom.

Good positioned with ultra high agility ships you could already basically choose your position every turn (if in a more limited manner), and you could do it EVERY turn WITH actions and/or an EPT. I honestly don't see this being that great on those ships. PTL (and possibly Advanced Sensors) brings a lot more to the table, in my opinion. Late turn positioning every turn (though more limited), but with actions and/or an EPT is much more useful.

Where I see this really helping is with ships that don't have those maneuverability options, like Wedge. For them the addition of late turn maneuvering choices is huge. But certainly not broken, as it's still weaker than what Soontir Fel could already pull off.

Long story short, I don't see it as being any more scary or disastrous to the movement game than any of the ultra-maneuverable ship combos we already had. It's just expanding which ships get those benefits.

As for for Navigator combo...eh, not to worried about it. Of the ships that take it, only the Phantom (and soon, B-Wing) really gain much benefit from it. And of those two, I think only the B-Wing is REALLY going to want it, as the phantom can place it self almost at will.

I think the thing it is going to be most useful for is to help REACT against OTHER ships that can late maneuver, like that Phantom.

All in all, it doesn't sound broken to me, and seems like a fun addition.

Maybe fun if you are the one using the it.

Imagine you are going up against Chewbacca+Navigator+StayOnTarget, and Dash Rendar +Outrider, HLC, and StayOnTarget.

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Why would I not get a shot at them? They are huge ships that can change their move every other turn, and only doing so when there is another red maneuver that is better than the one they are taking, and likely giving up the chance to shoot at me as well as focus or evade. That's...pretty weak, actually. Arc dodgers they are not. In fact, with ships that large, most of the time they couldn't arc dodge you if they wanted to. And, again, every other turn AT BEST.

And to do so they are giving up tons of other upgrades that could have helped them EVERY turn.

I'm really not sure what you are worried about with this particular list.

We don't even know what the YT-2400 dial looks like.

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5 and Dash is PS7 so it's not that hard to win the PS build against Chewie at least.

Most builds don't have that many pilots that are above a 5 though. At least in my local meta. You occasionally run into a high PS build with interceptors, but they would be doomed against that build.

And if you are running a mixed build with only 1 high PS pilot all Chewie and Dash need to do is kill him first.

So yeah maybe you will get a shot on them, but you need consistent shots.

Man, when I thought we couldn't get more hyperbolic than Phantoms. This is so going to be remembered as another Assault Missile-pocalypse.

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5 and Dash is PS7 so it's not that hard to win the PS build against Chewie at least.

Most builds don't have that many pilots that are above a 5 though. At least in my local meta. You occasionally run into a high PS build with interceptors, but they would be doomed against that build.

And if you are running a mixed build with only 1 high PS pilot all Chewie and Dash need to do is kill him first.

So yeah maybe you will get a shot on them, but you need consistent shots.

They will soon.

That's why the card exists.

And I'll just run all ion turrets and nobody will have any fun

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5 and Dash is PS7 so it's not that hard to win the PS build against Chewie at least.

Most builds don't have that many pilots that are above a 5 though. At least in my local meta. You occasionally run into a high PS build with interceptors, but they would be doomed against that build.

And if you are running a mixed build with only 1 high PS pilot all Chewie and Dash need to do is kill him first.

So yeah maybe you will get a shot on them, but you need consistent shots.

They will soon.

That's why the card exists.

And then the meta will consist of everyone running ion turrets and the game will no longer be any fun for anyone

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5 and Dash is PS7 so it's not that hard to win the PS build against Chewie at least.

Most builds don't have that many pilots that are above a 5 though. At least in my local meta. You occasionally run into a high PS build with interceptors, but they would be doomed against that build.

And if you are running a mixed build with only 1 high PS pilot all Chewie and Dash need to do is kill him first.

So yeah maybe you will get a shot on them, but you need consistent shots.

I think the whole point is that it should change the meta though. You should start seeing more high PS ships.

sounds to me like Paul made a awesome card. If it was too weak sauce we'd all be mad. this is actually stirring up the mix quite a bit.

And I'll just run all ion turrets and nobody will have any fun

Good luck EVER getting a shot on them.

Chewie is PS5 and Dash is PS7 so it's not that hard to win the PS build against Chewie at least.

Most builds don't have that many pilots that are above a 5 though. At least in my local meta. You occasionally run into a high PS build with interceptors, but they would be doomed against that build.

And if you are running a mixed build with only 1 high PS pilot all Chewie and Dash need to do is kill him first.

So yeah maybe you will get a shot on them, but you need consistent shots.

They will soon.

That's why the card exists.

And then the meta will consist of everyone running ion turrets and the game will no longer be any fun for anyone

all hail the epic return of the y-wing!

Boba Fett obsolescence? More Phantom hate? Sure, why not.

That was my first thought too. Boba is pretty much useless now and that's a shame.

I like the card tho.

Boba doesnt stress though...

there are already high PS ships. I don't understand why anyone thought this was a needed change or a good upgrade to begin with. Maybe if it was unique, or costed way higher I could see, but as it is, unless I'm running turrets, an enemy can easily avoid ever being in my line of sight.

And like I said earlier, this will only get worse if they ever enhance dials to have more maneuvers. 4 Banks, curved K-Turns, BACKWARDS movements..... this type of stuff will take an already OP card and wreck it even more.

Maybe I'm just exaggerating here, because the stress might restrict you to a green move the following turn, but hey you can do it again! And on a Phantom? I like the way the game plays right now, and this really seems like it's going to get so much play that it ruins the game. I have no desire to spend a game chasing someone down that I'll never be able to catch....

i can't even keep up with this thread.. i stepped away for like 10 min and 2 more pages popped up. lol.

Can't wait to load up my luke or wedge with stay on target! totally epic trench run lists! (i like running thematic lists, this will give me more to work with)!

and this really seems like it's going to get so much play that it ruins the game.

I think you're way over estimating how often this will be used. Sure it will be nice, but I don't think an insurance type card is nice enough to make it an autoinclude, when you have Predator, PtL and Outmaneuver in the game already.

Even on a Phantom, are you really going to give up VI for the sake of Stay on Target?

At no point has the red-ness of that other maneuver been rescinded. It's still red!

But it isn't the maneuver on your dial anymore.

Days like these that I regret being an actual lawyer and don't have time to engage in "rules lawyering" on the internet anymore.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Seems like this might encourage the use of more Range 3 secondary weapons. It's a lot harder to get out of arc of a ship at Range 3 from you than one right on top of you.

I hope you are right.

Basically I hate any game that devolves into something that no longer resembles X-Wing. This happens alot with ION builds. Someone get's locked down with Ion turrets shooting at them, and the next thing you know they are slowly being flown off the board without any ability to win.... just slowly dragging out the inevitable.

I can totally see something awful like that happening with this build too. Suppose you are up on points, and you decide to just dance around me, removing the possibility of me every actually having a shot on you. Even if I perfectly predict where you are going to be, you just change it. Then we end up running out the clock and you win on points.

This sort of thing doesn't happen all the time, but when it does I find it incredibly frustrating. The last time someone was ionizing me like that I just purposely flew my ships off the board because it wasn't a "game", it was just him playing solitaire with me moving ships for him.

Maybe I'm just exaggerating here, because the stress might restrict you to a green move the following turn, but hey you can do it again! And on a Phantom? I like the way the game plays right now, and this really seems like it's going to get so much play that it ruins the game. I have no desire to spend a game chasing someone down that I'll never be able to catch....

That is only going to be the case if they have higher PS than you. And honestly, with the Phantom and maneuverability spec'd B-Wings, A-Wings, and Interceptors, you are no worse off than you ever were if you lost the PS bid.

And remember, it only helps if there is a better turn they could make. It's not like PTL that drastically expands on where and how a ship can move. PTL improves your maneuverability, defense, and/or attack EVERY turn whether you lose the PS bid or not. SoT helps you correct mistakes, but at a big cost.

Honestly, the Phantom one of the last ships this upgrade should worry you for. With the upgrades we already had it could already basically place itself wherever it wanted. Once you have 5000 possible positions you can put yourself on the table, expanding that to 15000 possible positions really doesn't change things that much.

It's ships like X-Wings this is going to help, ships that were very maneuver dependent and lacked late round ways to decide their moves. But it wont make them more dangerous than the Phantom, Interceptor, and B-Wing already were.

I really think people are overestimating how often this will be useful, and underestimating the opportunity cost associated with it. The 2pt cost isn't your major cost here. It's a bump. Losing another EPT and changing green and white maneuvers to red ones are the primary limiters on this card.