The first thing you do when you determine how big your dice pool is, is to apply terrain modifiers. Hence, if you should roll 4 dice and you're attacking a unit in a forest hex, this amount drops to 2. After that, you apply all the other modifiers, in the order of your choosing. So, a single-figure blood harvesters unit attacking a unit in a forest hex would roll 4 dice, 2 for the normal attack, +1 die/figure missing.

Beware that flying creatures follow different rules, as specified on pag 4 of the reference guide

Question.

Ironbound,
Bone Horrors

They may move extra move for 1 lore.

If they first move was into the forest/ford etc
may they move extra move?

in reference says:
"When a unit moves into a forest hex, it must immediately end its
movement. That unit may move again later during the turn using
a *unit ability* or another effect, such as advance."

but in FAQ says that Obscene may not move second move after forest.

???

Onslaught vs. Battle Cry has been discussed on BGG... I'm not sure a definitive answer has been given. There's an argument (which I tend to agree with) that this is a timing issue and, per the reference entry on timing issues, it's up to the active player to decide which happens first. While that entry for Onslaught does mention the extra move happens in the Attack Step, I don't see how that's different from saying it happens "After your Move Step" or "after any player's Move Step." unless there's some nebulous between-step moment where Battle Cry is to be played.

If there's been an official answer maybe someone can point it out.

Hi David,

I think a relevant piece of information is provided in the "Timing" section of the reference book. It reads: "A timing clause that uses “after” means immediately after the indicated step or event, before any other step or effect is resolved."

Also remember that the expression "Move step" does not generically refer to the movement of a unit. The "Move step" is a specific step in the flow of the game. In other words there aren't' "any move step" but just ONE move step per turn.

Thus, Battle Cry has to be played after the Move step and BEFORE any action of the "Attack step" takes place. One of the action of the Attack Step is moving the Infantry unit one more hex. In other terms, once the first unit moves its extra hex, we are no longer AFTER the Move step but IN the Attack step.

At least, this is how I interpret it. No official answers are known to me at date.

Question.

Ironbound,

Bone Horrors

They may move extra move for 1 lore.

If they first move was into the forest/ford etc

may they move extra move?

in reference says:

"When a unit moves into a forest hex, it must immediately end its

movement. That unit may move again later during the turn using

a *unit ability* or another effect, such as advance."

but in FAQ says that Obscene may not move second move after forest.

???

The point here is that the Obscene movement is not movement + special movement due to unit's ability, it's more a "this unit moves a) 1 hex if no enemy units are around or b) 2 hexes if by making the 2nd move they can reach another unit", hence, it has sense that the forest indrance has a role in their movement

Hi, me and my brother were playing last week and we were arguing about "overrun"

my brother playing as daqan believed that when playing overrun he can move the units he ordered with his command card and in addition he could move his cavalry units because the words "it may move through occupied" hexs.

I disagreed stating he would have to order his cavalry to be able to move them at all.

Could you help please?

If unordered units were allowed to be moved by means of this card, then it'd be stated on the card. The card is to be played after the Order step (hence, you must have already ordered all your units before), and it allows cavalry units to make a movement that otherwise would not be legit, so it affects their actual movement capabilities, but that unit must still be eligible for moving, which is something granted by what happened in the Order step.

So, long story short, you were right

Thank you for the clarification and help. I appreciate what you do in this forum board I have read alot of other threads and post that has clarified this game for me and my brother.

Always happy to help, it's the best way to keep the community growing and people enthusiast about the game

Berserkers have an ability: Deranged: Each time you perform a combat roll for this unit, you may reroll 1 die.

According to the Reference Book rerolls are performed after the combat roll.

My wife wanted to use Valor and Vengeance (play after the combat roll: target friendly Knight unit ignores all retreats and adds dice to it's counter roll) against my Berserkers. Can she use it AFTER my reroll?

I think she should use it BEFORE reroll, immediately after combat roll.

Not so sure about this one, but I agree that a literal reading of the rules leads to your exact interpretation. Still, I can see why she said that, and it's probably worth its own FAQ entry

According to the reference book, page 2, I think Valor and Vengeance enters into play in step 7 of the combat sequence, and of course in step 10. Re-roll takes place in step 3. Thus, I would say that, irrespectively of the precise moment the card is actually played, reroll is performed BEFORE any effect mentioned in the lore card could take place. Just my 2 cents.

Terrifying against Ferocity

If Obscene forced to retreat by Terrifying dice of Banshee , but he wasn't target of attack, he can't use Ferocity(counter) ? Right?

Two questions.

1) Can a unit advance more than once during the same turn? For example after defeating an adjacent enemy unit using the abilities Pursue or Bone Blast.

2) IF multiple advances are possible, can the Grotesque unit use the ability Bone Blast several times, if it eliminates adjacent units using Bone Blast and choses not to advance?

Marcus

Marcus, I think you've got the answers directly from FFG, right? Maybe you can consider posting them here.

Unstoppable vs Multiple Retreats Prior to Death

I have read all I can on forums about similar rulings and have the reference book in front of me, but I still wanted to have this validated: An uthuk is attacked via melee by an adjacent daqan. The uthuk suffers no damage in step 6 of the combat sequence, however, the uthuk would be forced to retreat one or more hexes away from the daqan before running into impassable terrain and dying due to unresolved retreats. In other words, the two units would no longer be adjacent at the time of the uthuk's death. I interpret the rules as allowing the uthuk to still use unstoppable and counter. Page 10 of the reference book states the counter is performed immediately before the STEP of combat in which elimination occurs. So even though the units may be multiple hexes away from each other when the uthuk dies, they still counter before they move/retreat away to their death.

Thanks for any feedback!

Unstoppable vs Multiple Retreats Prior to Death

I have read all I can on forums about similar rulings and have the reference book in front of me, but I still wanted to have this validated: An uthuk is attacked via melee by an adjacent daqan. The uthuk suffers no damage in step 6 of the combat sequence, however, the uthuk would be forced to retreat one or more hexes away from the daqan before running into impassable terrain and dying due to unresolved retreats. In other words, the two units would no longer be adjacent at the time of the uthuk's death. I interpret the rules as allowing the uthuk to still use unstoppable and counter. Page 10 of the reference book states the counter is performed immediately before the STEP of combat in which elimination occurs. So even though the units may be multiple hexes away from each other when the uthuk dies, they still counter before they move/retreat away to their death.

Thanks for any feedback!

Damage is suffered before retreats are suffered. This means that if enough damage is dealt to destroy the unit, it immediately counters before you move on to the Ignore Retreat Step (which is before the Resolve Retreats step). So the Uthuk unit will still be next to the enemy unit when it is time to counter.

In the Rules Reference Guide, it says that you cannot counter if you already retreated and are no longer adjacent. This could happen if, for example, you retreated two spaces but the second space was impassable terrain or an enemy unit, so you retreat one hex and then suffer another damage and are defeated. In that case, you are no longer adjacent to the attacker and can therefore no longer perform the counter. If, however, you were forced to retreat but could not resolve them because of impassable terrain or an enemy unit, you would remain adjacent to the attacker and could then perform the counter from Unstoppable.

Can you make ranged attacks against a target unit on a hill?

Why not? As long as you have free line of sight, no probs with this

Ferocity + Unstoppable = double counter?

I've seen this asked on BGG but it was a two post thread and no official ruling.

Ferocity + Unstoppable = double counter?

I've seen this asked on BGG but it was a two post thread and no official ruling.

I agree that an official ruling would be nice. The main question is whether Unstoppable grants a counter, or if it moves the normal counter to a different time. The Rules Reference Guide refers to making "a counter" (always singular) and the Ferocity ability states that the unit may make "its counter" (not "its counters"), implying each unit gets a single counter, so if Unstoppable simply moves the timing of the counter, the combo wouldn't work.

Keep in mind that this is a very specific combo. Here's how it works.

1) The Daqan unit attacks an adjacent Obscene unit.

2) The damage dealt does not defeat the Obscene.

3) The Daqan unit has some number of retreat results (through morale results or Superior Tactics, for example)

4) BEFORE resolving those retreat results, the Obscene may use Ferocity to make a counter attack.

5) The Daqan unit is not defeated or forced to retreat from the Obscene's counter attack.

6) The Daqan unit resolves its retreat effects and the Obscene is unable to resolve the retreats because its movement is restricted, so it takes damage and is defeated.

7) Now the Uthuk player can play Unstoppable to give the Obscene a counter before it is defeated.

So even though a clarification would be handy, you can see that this combo will not come up often. For my part, it looks like the combo works and Unstoppable is allowing a counter at that specific time without regard to whether the unit has countered already or not. That's what needs clarification.

Reference Book p.10 "Unstoppable" second bullet point: "The player cannot perform the counter if the target unit was forced to retreat one or more hexes before being eliminated.". Thus Unstoppable and Ferocity are mutually exclusive: if the Obscene are eliminated in place, use Unstoppable. If they are forced to retreat, use Ferocity.

Ferocity + Unstoppable = double counter?

I've seen this asked on BGG but it was a two post thread and no official ruling.

I agree that an official ruling would be nice. The main question is whether Unstoppable grants a counter, or if it moves the normal counter to a different time. The Rules Reference Guide refers to making "a counter" (always singular) and the Ferocity ability states that the unit may make "its counter" (not "its counters"), implying each unit gets a single counter, so if Unstoppable simply moves the timing of the counter, the combo wouldn't work.

Keep in mind that this is a very specific combo. Here's how it works.

1) The Daqan unit attacks an adjacent Obscene unit.

2) The damage dealt does not defeat the Obscene.

3) The Daqan unit has some number of retreat results (through morale results or Superior Tactics, for example)

4) BEFORE resolving those retreat results, the Obscene may use Ferocity to make a counter attack.

5) The Daqan unit is not defeated or forced to retreat from the Obscene's counter attack.

6) The Daqan unit resolves its retreat effects and the Obscene is unable to resolve the retreats because its movement is restricted, so it takes damage and is defeated.

7) Now the Uthuk player can play Unstoppable to give the Obscene a counter before it is defeated.

So even though a clarification would be handy, you can see that this combo will not come up often. For my part, it looks like the combo works and Unstoppable is allowing a counter at that specific time without regard to whether the unit has countered already or not. That's what needs clarification.

Agreed. However, the reference book does not imply anywhere that only one counter is allowed; not in either of the entries for Ferocity or Unstoppable, nor in any passage about combat, counters, retreating, timing, or resolving multiple effects.

Ferocity: "...it may perform its counter immediately before the attacking unit resolves retreats." The use of its vs a counter here is insignificant as a possessive. Its is referencing the counter permitted according to the text on the unit card for the obscene which is the golden source of the ability. The card states: "Ferocity: During your opponent's Attack Step, if this unit would be forced to retreat, this unit may counter before it retreats." You are just allowed a counter, not to change the timing of an otherwise permitted one. Unstoppable, as you already pointed out, also simply allows a counter, no change of timing to a preexisting one there according to the unit card or reference passage.

Giulio, if you look at the numbered sequence Budgernaut laid out, it outlines exactly when these two abilities are not mutually exclusive. As you said, the second bullet point in the reference on Unstoppable doesn't allow the counter when the uthuk has been forced to retreat "one or more hexes before being eliminated." In the above sequence, the obscene has retreated 0 hexes prior to elimination, therefore it triggers. Ferocity obviously triggers as well in the same scenario and you are left with two counters granted; One prior to step 8 in the combat sequence (Ferocity) and the other executed during the resolution of step 8. I say Unstoppable occurs during step 8 because it cannot be played prior to retreating one or more hexes towards subsequent elimination (like Ferocity can ).

Please, check the main forum ( here ) to keep the discussion running and avoid clogging the FAQ thread with comments. This thread is meant to collect the questions, not to debate the answers (sorry, could sound harsh, but if we keep debating it'll end up that some questions will be inevitably lost)

So this one is tricky, and it really just revolves around the Unstoppable lore card…

The language and various wordings used for “retreat” throughout the game has always caused headaches and frustration. However, I believe I have an answer regarding this one.

Honestly, a compelling argument can be made for either side of this issue, which ultimately means the matter comes down whatever the original intent was. Since the members who worked on this are no longer with the company, we’ll just have to wager a guess and decide on a ruling.

With that said, it is our belief that the inclusion of the second bullet point for “Unstoppable” on pg. 10 of the Reference Book (the one that states, “The player cannot perform the counter if the target unit was forced to retreat one or more hexes before being eliminated.”) was specifically added to address the event in which the target unit would physically retreat (read “move”) one or more hexes due to a retreat.

So yes, in the event that a unit is forced to retreat into an enemy unit or impassable terrain and would be eliminated, it is still possible to play Unstoppable. However, in regards to the Obscene, it must follow the rules for “Counter” when performing both counters. If the first counter with Ferocity causes the Daqan unit to retreat, then the second counter from Unstoppable cannot be resolved because the unit is no longer adjacent.

Hope this helps clear things up!

According to the rules in the army packs for selecting lore decks, you must select which of your two lore decks you will use before seeing what the battlefield will look like. This seems odd to me. Is that intended? It seems like it would make more sense to assemble the lore decks during the "create lore decks and scenario decks" step of setup, and then choose which to use during mustering when you can customize the chosen lore deck. Is there a reason for choosing the lore decks before the scenarios are chosen?

Derrick Fuchs wrote:

Short answer is yes, because it was cleaner to introduce the rule into a step that already had players selecting their Lore deck than to have them ignore that step or add an additional step. However, with the said I’m not sure why your consideration was never made on our end.

As building your army (and subsequently, your lore decks) around the scenarios you and your opponent have chosen is a large part of what makes BattleLore the game that it is, I would rule that choosing a lore deck should occur after Step. 7 of setup as you an others have suggested.

If the game were to receive an errata, I imagine this would among one of the issues addressed.

Hope this helps!