4 hours ago, Khobai said:

I have conceded ground though.

I said the airspeeder was just bad now instead of completely terrible

Good. Lord. Do you have any idea how pretentious that sounds?

Okay, this is the last time I'm wasting my time with you (in the vain belief that you're just ignorant to your conduct) :

You are a detrimental and toxic member of these forums. Khobai, your tactical and mathematical analysis of units is very good actually. That's not the problem.

The problem is that you act like your opinions are fact. "Snowspeeders are BAD" Maybe, in YOUR opinion . Bad at what by the way? Now, are they efficient at attacking cover in comparison to another unit? Maybe, maybe not; the math can decide that. (Also, is that BAD or simply 'less efficient'?) But that doesn't make it good or bad; that's a personal value judgement that each player can make. What about other traits in the unit like keywords and speed? (Units are more than their attack values) But you coming here and acting like you're some sort of authority on the matter (spoiler alert: you're not!) is detrimental and every time you arrogantly speak up, you create a flame-war. If you're SO GOOD at this game's numbers and mechanics, why aren't you working for Fantasy Flight? Look at the sheer amount of people who liked my initial criticism about you, or the others who all dog on your arrogant attitude. I barely post here, and I have this perception of you. So do many others! Think I'm lying? " GAR is still objectively better than Imperials" Oh, nice hot OPINION you got there; but that's not what OBJECTIVELY means. Now feel free to argue about points efficiency, attack values, combat roles etc. That's FINE. But different factions exceed in different aspects; you reducing everything to "DiS iS gUdDeR tHaN dAt" is not helpful or productive in the slightest. YOU may not like a certain faction, but just because Khobai the god-emperor doesn't like something, doesn't mean it's objectively worse than something else. Stock B1's are doggie-poopoo at standard fighting. Does that make them worse than clone troopers? NO. Because they're cheap and great objective holders. WEIRD. It's like a unit's PLAYER VALUE is dependent on how you use them!

And this is all in conjunction to all your "I want, I want, I want, I want" posts about stuff. Guess what? No one cares about what YOU want. This forum isn't your personal blog. Go make a Facebook. Or do you not have enough friends to warrant an account? Wonder why THAT is! Seriously, climb off that freaking high horse before you fall and break your neck.

So glad my FLGS bans people like you from events. You want people to actually listen to your analysis on stuff in this forum? Try acting like an grown-up and stop being so arrogant.

Or you know, just continue to do what you're doing (because that's working SO WELL for you)

@samus17 as much as I agree with and share your sentiment, at this point we're just feeding the trolls and its giving him what he wants, the best thing people can do is ignore and/or report, rather than stoop down to his level of petty back and forth.

1 minute ago, Atromix said:

@samus17 as much as I agree with and share your sentiment, at this point we're just feeding the trolls and its giving him what he wants, the best thing people can do is ignore and/or report, rather than stoop down to his level of petty back and forth.

Very true. Like I said, this was the last time I'm engaging with him.

3 minutes ago, samus17 said:

5 minutes ago, Atromix said:

@samus17 as much as I agree with and share your sentiment, at this point we're just feeding the trolls and its giving him what he wants, the best thing people can do is ignore and/or report, rather than stoop down to his level of petty back and forth.

Very true. Like I said, this was the last time I'm engaging with him.

In the trolls defense he works pretty hard at it. I have seen many trolls in my days and this one really is top tier. Makes me think he is getting paid by Warhammer or a vengeful Armada fan.

And lets be real I got a few concerns about the changes, especially around the promise of a tank meta. BUT COME ON they did so much and I can't wait to play all those great Rebel changes!!!

Yeah, seeing someone do a durability side by side between a ground unit and a move 3 speeder (that costs 30 points less now) made me realize that they are just looking for negative attention

1 hour ago, player5006253 said:

Yeah, seeing someone do a durability side by side between a ground unit and a move 3 speeder (that costs 30 points less now) made me realize that they are just looking for negative attention

Ahhhhhh crap, you're right. He IS just a troll...

Well done Khobai, I took that bait; hook, line, and sinker.

2 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

In the trolls defense he works pretty hard at it. I have seen many trolls in my days and this one really is top tier. Makes me think he is getting paid by Warhammer or a vengeful Armada fan.

Armada fans aren't vengeful right now. We're thrilled about having as many articles this month as we normally see in a year.

3 hours ago, player5006253 said:

Yeah, seeing someone do a durability side by side between a ground unit and a move 3 speeder (that costs 30 points less now) made me realize that they are just looking for negative attention

FFG themselves said they wanted the T-47 to be closer to the baseline AAT. I didnt say it, FFG did. I can link you the interview where they said it if you need me to.

I dont think suggesting the T-47 get 1-2 additional points of health was unreasonable at all. It would still be the easiest to kill of all the heavy vehicles.

Furthermore when did I say the the T-47 shouldnt cost more if it got more health? I have always maintained that the T-47 should be both stronger and cost more points.

Lastly why do you think the T-47 should be weak? We see it take down AT-ATs in the movies... And its certainly capable of taking on AT-STs. Its far weaker in Legion than it actually should be. The T-47 in Legion is also laughably out of scale. If the T-47 was the proper scale I dont think anyone would be saying it shouldnt be stronger. It carries two huge 13 foot long laser cannons and should be the starwars equivalent of the A-10. Yet in Legion it struggles killing stormtroopers in cover lol.

3 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

Makes me think he is getting paid by Warhammer or a vengeful Armada fan.

You obviously know nothing about armada fans if you think theyre vengeful. How are they vengeful? please back up your statements with facts.

Everything you say is unsubstantiated and wrong which is why you have to resort to insulting people.

Clones lost really a lot so indirectly all other factions won in relative. Invader league lists lost 30-40 points, so basically one activation. That alone is big. They lost standby sharing and therefore can be approached again. And they lost turn 0 tokens (minus 5-6 aim tokens) drastically reducing TTC alpha strikes. I don't think they are OP any more. It could well be that this was a tad too much.

Btw: I don't think the Devs meant they wanted all vehicles to be like the AAT or being able to take it down (nothing can do that effectively, not even the AAT), they wanted to make all as viable as it. AT-STs were always viable, now they are even cheaper. Tanks got a much better transport rule and can now deploy partly outside the deployment zone (protecting their week spots), we'll see if there are good uses of that.

The Airspeeder got another discount, more damage output and slightly improved speeder rules (and wegde basically for free). That's nice but probably still not competitive. It is mechanically just not suited for reliable objective success. Same as the Landspeeder which might have some fun taxi strategies now.

14 minutes ago, SailorMeni said:

Clones lost really a lot so indirectly all other factions won in relative. Invader league lists lost 30-40 points, so basically one activation. That alone is big. They lost standby sharing and therefore can be approached again. And they lost turn 0 tokens (minus 5-6 aim tokens) drastically reducing TTC alpha strikes. I don't think they are OP any more. It could well be that this was a tad too much.

Btw: I don't think the Devs meant they wanted all vehicles to be like the AAT or being able to take it down (nothing can do that effectively, not even the AAT), they wanted to make all as viable as it. AT-STs were always viable, now they are even cheaper. Tanks got a much better transport rule and can now deploy partly outside the deployment zone (protecting their week spots), we'll see if there are good uses of that.

The Airspeeder got another discount, more damage output and slightly improved speeder rules (and wegde basically for free). That's nice but probably still not competitive. It is mechanically just not suited for reliable objective success. Same as the Landspeeder which might have some fun taxi strategies now.

They may have hit clones too hard. We can't tell for a bit but I think it is really close to corrected.

The Airspeeder and Landspeeder are probably not going to become dominant pieces in top level competitive with their changes, but they will be absolutely worth bringing to casual settings and may sneak in and surprise people in tougher settings now.

The thing about this RRG change is that it really opened up Rebel list diversity. They probably stand to be the faction that will give you the most wtf factor and I think that is perfect.

2 hours ago, Khobai said:

The T-47 in Legion is also laughably out of scale

https://images.app.goo.gl/JZeQMNH3ocv7TeGC8

It really is that small. The scale debate about the T-47 was settled back when the game came out.

One problem with all these Rebel changes everyone is ignoring...

How do we pick what to use?! As a Rebel player I had such a small list of useful units!

43 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

https://images.app.goo.gl/JZeQMNH3ocv7TeGC8

It really is that small. The scale debate about the T-47 was settled back when the game came out.

seriously look at the legion T-47 model. then look at a trooper model. two trooper models could not possibly fit inside it. its definitely way too small. you can tell just by looking at it.

1 hour ago, player5006253 said:

They may have hit clones too hard. We can't tell for a bit but I think it is really close to corrected.

The Airspeeder and Landspeeder are probably not going to become dominant pieces in top level competitive with their changes, but they will be absolutely worth bringing to casual settings and may sneak in and surprise people in tougher settings now.

The thing about this RRG change is that it really opened up Rebel list diversity. They probably stand to be the faction that will give you the most wtf factor and I think that is perfect.

How is the airspeeder dominant all of a sudden?

Rebels got some decent changes to be sure. But the airspeeder is not going to be dominant in competitive play by any means. It still doesnt do anything productive. it cant capture objectives, it struggles with killing units in cover, its not good at killing other vehicles, and its awkward firing arcs and compulsory movement make it goofy. And it cant even survive long enough to be a decent distraction.

The best buffs for rebels come from their commanders and trooper units getting cheaper.

13 minutes ago, Khobai said:

seriously look at the legion T-47 model. then look at a trooper model. two trooper models could not possibly fit inside it. its definitely way too small.

If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

1 hour ago, player5006253 said:

The Airspeeder and Landspeeder are probably not going to become dominant pieces in top level competitive

27 minutes ago, Khobai said:

How is the airspeeder dominant all of a sudden?

Carefully reading before ranting is overrated 😉

15 hours ago, NeverTellMeTheOdds said:

Which means it makes even less sense... maybe it’s to help them sell the inevitable updated card packs...

I'm not sure. I thought they didn't need a points boost, but we have to work with what we've got.

Fortunately Obi and P1 clones got decreases, which essentially means most lists that include all three will still be about the same.

how would one print out these new cards? Is there a place I could find them properly sized and ready to print?

I don't care about the cards with just point changes, but the ones with new abilities I would want printed.

Honestly, I really want them to consider selling a card pack with these new cards

A printer friendly RRG and some printable cards would be high on my list of obvious things FFG failed to provide in the 2 years they have had this game. Maybe new hands at the tiller will sort this out?

57 minutes ago, Empire On Ice said:

A printer friendly RRG and some printable cards would be high on my list of obvious things FFG failed to provide in the 2 years they have had this game. Maybe new hands at the tiller will sort this out?

Quoted for truth! It's not so bad when the only thing on the card that has changed is the price. But when actual keywords are changing, I would love to have an updated card.

It was unknowable that this thread would be a dumpster fire because of Khobai.

2 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

It was unknowable that this thread would be a dumpster fire because of Khobai.

You know someone's a troll/moron when they call the T-47 airspeeder (a civilian car that the alliance bolted guns onto) the equivalent of an A-10 Warthog tank hunter. Or ignores that the entire point of the Battle of Hoth was that the Snowspeeders were so outclassed by the AT-ATs that their blasters couldn't even dent the armor and they had to resort to clever & atypical tactics to get around that lack firepower. It's almost like FFG wants to embody that tactic instead of just making a flying tank.

Or that because FFG wants all heavies to be the useful equivalent of the AAT, that that means it needs to basically be a flying AAT.

It seems like a pretty solid unit now with 3r3b surge to crit and with impact 3 means this thing is going to get 4-5 crits a roll vs vehicles. If you're not up vs a vehicle its still excellent at picking off weak activations because of its speed and height making sure you're going be where you need to be to reliably get out of cover shots. Contrary to his opinion the T-47 is not bad but it actually has a purpose now which it is quite good at, and that is to hunt vehicles and weak activations.

5 hours ago, SnooSnarry said:

It seems like a pretty solid unit now with 3r3b surge to crit and with impact 3 means this thing is going to get 4-5 crits a roll vs vehicles. If you're not up vs a vehicle its still excellent at picking off weak activations because of its speed and height making sure you're going be where you need to be to reliably get out of cover shots. Contrary to his opinion the T-47 is not bad but it actually has a purpose now which it is quite good at, and that is to hunt vehicles and weak activations.

But, what exactly is "to be good at hunting vehicles"? Yes, the average hits is 4, so the average wounds is 2 on a Saber/AAT.

With a Health of 9, you need 4-5 turns to bring those tanks down (IF the enemy has no repairing droids...). And we are confronting a 130+ points vehicle vs a 170+ points vehicle.

I honestly think the opponent can perfectly ignore the T-47 and keep hammering your white defense dice troopers with his tank.

My opinion is the T-47 alone is not enough to effectively counter the enemy tanks. It can be the main piece, but he definitely needs help if you want to eliminate enemy tanks on time.

1 hour ago, Dalae said:

But, what exactly is "to be good at hunting vehicles"? Yes, the average hits is 4, so the average wounds is 2 on a Saber/AAT.

With a Health of 9, you need 4-5 turns to bring those tanks down (IF the enemy has no repairing droids...). And we are confronting a 130+ points vehicle vs a 170+ points vehicle.

I honestly think the opponent can perfectly ignore the T-47 and keep hammering your white defense dice troopers with his tank.

My opinion is the T-47 alone is not enough to effectively counter the enemy tanks. It can be the main piece, but he definitely needs help if you want to eliminate enemy tanks on time.

I do agree with you that the T-47 isn't an up-front, stand-alone tank hunter, but that's not really the Rebel "style" of play is it?

To use it most effectively, it needs to use its Speeder keyword to zip behind enemy armor and exploit the Weak Rear for additional impact

If the Armor needs to die fast, the speeder should be supported with some infantry anti-armor

As you said, it's a center-piece, but not a stand-alone tactic; I believe the price of it reflects that pretty well

I flew two T-47s today, and I'm very pleased. Probably someone will tell me I should not have had fun, but I already had. This unit is worth taking now, IMO. Not always, and not always two, but it will stop collecting dust now, which is great.