4 hours ago, McFoy said:

same machine with skin level differences

Oh, and clearly racist.

On 12/17/2020 at 1:14 PM, ImperialYeet said:

Ok, now u guys are bickering. A. Maybe HIV exists because u get it from not following God's rules...?(Punishment/Being dumb) B. Hitler was probably one of the worst humans alive

Are you happy now ? Your beloved president/dictator Trump had made an insurrection in Washington

5 hours ago, McFoy said:

Big government breeds corruption because politicians feel safe knowing they can make careers out of it. It doesn't matter if it's a democrat or republican government, they are the same machine with skin level differences to keep the illusion of choice. These protesters walked right into the heart of the beast and the rats scattered. If they had wanted to actually harm the senators and representatives it would have happened. The various protests over the summer didn't accomplish anything except destroy/disable swathes of major cities, these ones sent a clear message everyone should heed. The power is in the hands of the people as it should be if you'll take it. The government should always fear the people.

They'll be labelled terrorists and the new government will strip away more rights, though they would have regardless. All those people will be arrested or blacklisted from society but hopefully one day their act will prove to do some good. Expect more like things like this.

Government MAY be corrupt for some things, but it doesn't give reason to attack the pillars of democracy the way it was done yesterday. This is NOT the way. The proper way is to propose an alternative to the population, and that this alternative will be elected this way.

And you are talking about corruption, but no one is more corrupt than Trump himself, who is giving presidental forviging to his friends that have clearly helped him get the white house 4 years ago.....

I have seen a lot of talk in this thread since the start, and I asked politely that, for the sake of X-Wing, this thread should be stopped. I haven't write since, but with what happened yesterday, I cannot simply say nothing.

49 minutes ago, Silver_leader said:

Are you happy now ? Your beloved president/dictator Trump had made an insurrection in Washington

Government MAY be corrupt for some things, but it doesn't give reason to attack the pillars of democracy the way it was done yesterday. This is NOT the way. The proper way is to propose an alternative to the population, and that this alternative will be elected this way.

And you are talking about corruption, but no one is more corrupt than Trump himself, who is giving presidental forviging to his friends that have clearly helped him get the white house 4 years ago.....

I have seen a lot of talk in this thread since the start, and I asked politely that, for the sake of X-Wing, this thread should be stopped. I haven't write since, but with what happened yesterday, I cannot simply say nothing.

Well, this thread will end at the end of the month regardless... like the Trump presidency.

I do hoped you objected to the 100 day siege of the federal court house in Portland or the countless other "mostly peaceful protests" throughout the country. Not saying these idiots in the Capital were right, but over the summer this kind of behavior was tolerated and downright encouraged by the MSM and democrats.

Quote

The whole point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable. Activists take that discomfort w/ the status quo & advocate for concrete policy changes. Popular support often starts small & grows. To folks who complain protest demands make others uncomfortable... that’s the point.

- AOC

Quote

please, show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful

- Chris Cuomo , CNN

14 hours ago, Sandmann87 said:

Search for the pictures of the D.C. BLM-protest this summer. Look at the police line standing in front of congress. Lines and lines of geared-up, militarised riot-police.

And then look at D.C. Police 2 hours ago.

This is the essence of white privilege.

A woman was shot in the neck and killed.

edit: not a girl, an AF vet of 14 year apparently.

Hey, since they are removing the forums anyway, so I don't care anymore:

All you redhat losers are absolute morons. I can't stand you all. You're all terrible humans, unAmerican, and my fervent hope is that you are just trolls and not as stupid as everything you post.

I have no idea how long it will take to deprogram all you redhat cultists, but, honestly, I don't think you're worth the effort.

1 hour ago, pheaver said:

Hey, since they are removing the forums anyway, so I don't care anymore:

All you redhat losers are absolute morons. I can't stand you all. You're all terrible humans, unAmerican, and my fervent hope is that you are just trolls and not as stupid as everything you post.

I have no idea how long it will take to deprogram all you redhat cultists, but, honestly, I don't think you're worth the effort.

Hear, Hear!

You're about to see what real "unAmerican" is for the next four years under this regime.

I cannot wait to see what country we invade next.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping we avoid more pointless foreign wars. Despite his best efforts, Trump managed to avoid that.

Doesn't change the fact that the redhats are horrid little monsters, though.

9 minutes ago, pheaver said:

Despite his best efforts, Trump managed to avoid that.

Instead, he pratically created a civil war in his own country (some people that talked to the media said that they were ready to take the arms for Trump).....

I agree with you on all what you have said. What is discouraging me the most is that the people are repeating Trump's words, that are without proofs. It's like a parade of parrots (or sheeps, whatever you prefer).....

26 minutes ago, pheaver said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping we avoid more pointless foreign wars. Despite his best efforts, Trump managed to avoid that.

Doesn't change the fact that the redhats are horrid little monsters, though.

You far lefties are the other side of the same coin. Get off your high horse.

10 minutes ago, codytx2 said:

You far lefties are the other side of the same coin. Get off your high horse.

If you’re thinking that being against fascism and despotism is „far left“, you need to adjust your moral compass.

9 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

A woman was shot in the neck and killed.

edit: not a girl, an AF vet of 14 year apparently.

Yes, and we have no idea what happenned or any details

22 minutes ago, Sandmann87 said:

If you’re thinking that being against fascism and despotism is „far left“, you need to adjust your moral compass.

I am talking about ignoring violence when convenient, blatant hypocrisy, and the tribalism. DC was actually on fire a few months ago with the only responses of a some blacked out social media accounts. Libs justified, ignored, or did whatever to make that acceptable (except the few times it got close to their homes). Same thing far right are doing now for the buffalo hat dude and the rest of his jack*ss friends. Don't like Trump challenging the election? Want him to shut up and accept the election results? MSM & Libs spun the Russia story the last 4 years solely to erode the legitimacy of his win. (Not saying Russia did not interfere I am saying they equally attacked and helped all candidates). All I saw was #notmypresident. Or "but the popular vote". And you can save the tired fascism label. Liberals literally want the government to control every aspect of your life. Everyone the same. No dissenting voices; especially if you're a woman or minority or lgbt which somehow doesn't make Libs racist or sexist or any other -ist. Put on your blue Biden "Rebuild America" hat and keep pretending it is so different than the red MAGA one.

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Oh, and clearly racist.

You're a dumb *** clearly taking that out of context. I don't hate America, I want it strong and united against the real threats to the western world. Neither side of the government will address that though, not openly like they should. My country is weak and relies on the US while condemning it on a lot of occasions, it's sad. I respect what America was and what it could be, not what it is now. Trump is to blame for part of the but he's a symptom of the Cancer eating the soul of your Republic.. Since his election the Democrats spent 4 years trying everything to get him out, he;s out now and you're upset things of the same vein are occurring. It's certainly elevated well beyond what's been done but I do support the point they were trying to get across. After 4 years of claims of collusion and fake news affecting the last election you're happy to mock, ignore, or silence requests to audit the election. If you just did it then they'd have nothing to stand on, then you can mock and ignore. But again, 4 years of constant doubt and you want the right to accept immediately, without question the results. Democrats and Republicans are equally to blame and you'll reap what you sow soon enough.

Anybody who honestly believes one side is worse than the other is mentally deficient. You can call the right fascists, racists, Nazis and you can call the left commies, authoritarians or even also racist. It true to a point, there are elements of all of that but the norm is that perfectly reasonable Americans on either side are upset that your system is so ****** up you only effectively have 2 choices any given election. Until you understand that other Americans, regardless of political leaning, are not the enemy your Country will remain broken.

9 hours ago, Silver_leader said:

Government MAY be corrupt for some things, but it doesn't give reason to attack the pillars of democracy the way it was done yesterday. This is NOT the way. The proper way is to propose an alternative to the population, and that this alternative will be elected this way.

And you are talking about corruption, but no one is more corrupt than Trump himself, who is giving presidental forviging to his friends that have clearly helped him get the white house 4 years ago.....

He is corrupt, I 100% agree. The whole system is corrupt and it won't allow you to make meaningful change to it. There are good people in it but they cannot effect change and either get cast out or corrupted. Your best bet right now is hoping enough people vote Libertarian or Green to actually get other voices elected but every election you have idiots who condemn voting third party as a wasted vote.

If your system changed to rank choice ballots then maybe things would get better but for now you're stuck with electing the side with the best MSM coverage and the most pissed off Americans.

Ugh, both of you just went straight to the "bOtH sIdEs" idiocy. It's amazing how often I see that, especially from the right. There's some people who can't defend their own beliefs, so they have to point everywhere else and say "but you're all just as bad as me!"

I can't tell if y'all are awful redhats or not. I really don't care enough to figure it out.

I mean, no violence shouldn't be a difficult thing to agree on.

That's really the main thing.

Justifying it in any manner is clearly not helping anything.

I had an extended argument on FB about this... I've been pointing out the hypocrisy from both sides... Summer of violence is excused, right up to the point where someone broke a window on the Hill.. and all of a sudden, people are outraged, Well , welcome to the party Bandwaggoner! Portland did effectively what people accuse the "Trumpsters" of doing; sedition, openly revolt of the legitimate government...they occupied a section of the city.. for months.

DC was cleaned out in hours... what a miracle! amazing what politicians will do when a disgruntled mass of humanity is on your door step and not thousands of miles away..

BLM, or people claiming to be, stormed my state capitol, tore down statues of abolitionists and feminist heroes, and assaulted a gay democrat representative. They broke into government buildings and attempted to set them on fire while people were still inside.

At face value, whats the difference? Personally I don't see it, except businesses in DC weren't set on fire.. statues weren't torn down... Both are crimes and should be treated as such.

The actions of the summer are just as bad as what happened in DC.

The only reason why people won't is because they don't want to be piled in with those people... We are fighting for the correct cause.

If you are going to cross that line between marching and being civil, and causing damage to property and injuring others... Welcome to the consequences of your actions.

Four people were awarded their prize.. Others need to thank their maker that the security personnel on the Hill were restrained in their response in defending the succession of power of the nation.

Yeah, at no point am I excusing political violence from anyone. I'm just saying redhats = terrible humans. They're the ones coming back with "but the other side is also terrible" rather than "nuh uh, our redhats do so many good things for humanity."

35 minutes ago, McFoy said:

You're a dumb *** clearly taking that out of context. I don't hate America, I want it strong and united against the real threats to the western world. Neither side of the government will address that though, not openly like they should. My country is weak and relies on the US while condemning it on a lot of occasions, it's sad. I respect what America was and what it could be, not what it is now. Trump is to blame for part of the but he's a symptom of the Cancer eating the soul of your Republic.. Since his election the Democrats spent 4 years trying everything to get him out, he;s out now and you're upset things of the same vein are occurring. It's certainly elevated well beyond what's been done but I do support the point they were trying to get across. After 4 years of claims of collusion and fake news affecting the last election you're happy to mock, ignore, or silence requests to audit the election. If you just did it then they'd have nothing to stand on, then you can mock and ignore. But again, 4 years of constant doubt and you want the right to accept immediately, without question the results. Democrats and Republicans are equally to blame and you'll reap what you sow soon enough.

Anybody who honestly believes one side is worse than the other is mentally deficient. You can call the right fascists, racists, Nazis and you can call the left commies, authoritarians or even also racist. It true to a point, there are elements of all of that but the norm is that perfectly reasonable Americans on either side are upset that your system is so ****** up you only effectively have 2 choices any given election. Until you understand that other Americans, regardless of political leaning, are not the enemy your Country will remain broken.

He is corrupt, I 100% agree. The whole system is corrupt and it won't allow you to make meaningful change to it. There are good people in it but they cannot effect change and either get cast out or corrupted. Your best bet right now is hoping enough people vote Libertarian or Green to actually get other voices elected but every election you have idiots who condemn voting third party as a wasted vote.

If your system changed to rank choice ballots then maybe things would get better but for now you're stuck with electing the side with the best MSM coverage and the most pissed off Americans.

1) If you would stop shouting your "both sides"-chant for a second, you could actually sit down and look up which side talks about abolishing the electoral college and reforming the election system, and which side does not. Personal hint: Maines ranked choice system. Supporters: Almost the entire (Maine) Democratic party, several independent politicians, and a small group of anti-Trump-republicans. The core opposition: Maines republican party, including Trump fans and small-government-guys like Paul LaPage.

2) "requests to audit the election"? "accept immediately, without question"? Are you kidding me? There have been audits. Dozens of them. Team Trump has launched 60 lawsuits. There have been two recounts in Georgia. Trumps own electoral security commition has launched an investigation. Nothing has been found. ****, all the downballot races they won have been accepted by the Trump-Republicans, even though those votes came on the same ballot as the presidents vote, because clearly evil democrats couldn't fake those. So "the point they were trying to get across" is that votes only matter when you are voting for them.

And that is what you compare to the Muller investigation showing clear indications for illegal contacts between russian intelligence and the Trump team in a 448-page document, with extensive details, witness accounts and legal analysis? That was later expanded by an impeachment process calling on more witnesses and legal analysts, including US veterans and long-time public servants? I mean, sure, what else do we have except ... I don't know... Trump literally standing in front of TV-cameras and saying "Russia, if you are listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing" on the same day that russian hackers started to break into Hillary Clintons email servers. I mean, that would be crazy, right. Right?

So no, it's not "fine people on both sides". There is Team democracy, and there is Team cancer. And if you can't tell them apart, because not everyone on Team democracy is an angel with golden halo, you are really not looking close enough.

1 hour ago, pheaver said:

Ugh, both of you just went straight to the "bOtH sIdEs" idiocy. It's amazing how often I see that, especially from the right. There's some people who can't defend their own beliefs, so they have to point everywhere else and say "but you're all just as bad as me!"

I can't tell if y'all are awful redhats or not. I really don't care enough to figure it out.

Or smart enough to realize I wasn't defending either side; I was saying both have equally horrible fringe sides. Neither have a baseline set of morals, values, or beliefs and are little more than fanatics that follow whatever their leader tells them. They are the same type of person doing the same exact thing just at different times. And their behavior should not be tolerated regardless of political belief.

1 hour ago, RuusMarev said:

I had an extended argument on FB about this... I've been pointing out the hypocrisy from both sides... Summer of violence is excused, right up to the point where someone broke a window on the Hill.

Yes, what an hypocracy from the left wing, not speaking up against violence during the George-Floyd/BLM-protests. No democrat criticising...

I mean, except for Joe Biden on Mai 31. ...

And James Cyburn, but who is he but the democratic Whip in the House of Representatives.

Oh, and local leaders like Rev. Jonathan Whitfield, Kali Ladd and Portlands longtime racial justice activist Ron Herndon.

And Chicagos Democratic Mayor Lori Lightfoot, saying "There cannot be any excuse for it, period."

And organisations like Rose City Justice.

And Nancy Pelosi, in 2017, condemning "the violent actions of people calling themselves antifa" after a protest in California.

But other than those fringe voices, I am sure no liberal or democrat ever condemned these acts of violence. After all, the apolitical NGO "Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project" looked at 7750 protests, and found that a laughably small 93% of them remained peaceful and nondestructive.

33 minutes ago, Sandmann87 said:

So no, it's not "fine people on both sides". There is Team democracy, and there is Team cancer. And if you can't tell them apart, because not everyone on Team democracy is an angel with golden halo, you are really not looking close enough.

This is just f*cking stupid and the kind of mindset we should be against. Not everyone on the right is Team Cancer and there are some pretty bad things on your saintly Team Democracy.

8 minutes ago, codytx2 said:

Or smart enough to realize I wasn't defending either side; I was saying both have equally horrible fringe sides.

The fringe left is sitting in a california beachhouse printing communist propaganda and smashing the windows of their local wallmart 3 times a month.

The fringe right is sitting in the white house and running the mainstream republican party.

So, yeah, somehow I am more afraid of one of those fringe groups.

Maybe there is a Team Democracy out there but it's not tied to party lines in any sense. Democrats support RCV as the political landscape as it stands tends to favour them, in Maine it 100% does. In a macro view you have three parties in Maine, Democrat, Green and Republican. Where do you think the Green votes that get eliminated for not hitting the threshold go? Definitely not the Republicans which is why they oppose it.

The DNC also has no interest in applying this on a federal level despite some people promoting it like Andrew Yang. Nationally the libertarians have greater support than the Greens and those votes would likely end up on the Republican side with RCV. Despite 2016 they like the Electoral College just as much as the Republicans. The changes you'll see is making DC a State with it's own electors. And again you already know who that would favour. In Canada, Trudeau ran in 2015 promising election reforms, he later appointed a minister to review and ultimately did not carry through despite the massive favour it would place them in. The simplest reason is the standing system already favours the Liberal Party, why change what basically guarantees them power.

The both sides argument is the only sensible way to look at American politics anymore. If you can turn your lizard brain off and get past the tribes you'd understand.

Now for a really spicy take, the protest's in the Capitol for an Audit have just as much validity as the BLM protests. Both are based on either a wilful ignorance of the truth or a belief the numbers are wrong.