I’ll do an article later on the severity of Hitler’s sin. Just hitler because he’s such a modern archetype of evil..... it will be interesting.

And may help you understand Hitler going to heaven if he asked God’s favor.

1 minute ago, Sandmann87 said:

So Amon Goeth, the butcher of Płaszów and baptised catholic, is in heaven, and the jews he murdered in his concentration camp are rotting in ****.

That is a very, very bad system, and I urge you to stop believing in it, and start believing in literally anything else.

Oh certainly not. It’s not a magical formula that somehow tricks God into you going to heaven.

Side note: in a million years it won’t matter don’t worry. 😉 😁

5 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

While I understand this is an intellectual exercise more for funsies... I must recant this.

It is ABSOLUTELY god’s business who goes to H or H.

All I can do is try my best to be honest with my own soul, beg his patience, ask his favor, and try my best to follow.

I know what I’ve been commanded, it is entirely overstepping my bounds to say what god will do with a soul he formed.

First of all, thank you for recanting your earlier statement. It really restores my faith in humanity that we can all agree that killing 6 million jews is bad.

Secondly, how is that system any different from "do good things, go to heaven"? To quote the rick and morty meme, "that's just the first systems with extra steps".

16 minutes ago, Sandmann87 said:

First of all, thank you for recanting your earlier statement. It really restores my faith in humanity that we can all agree that killing 6 million jews is bad.

Secondly, how is that system any different from "do good things, go to heaven"? To quote the rick and morty meme, "that's just the first systems with extra steps".

Fascinating.... I offended myself by sending the other guy to Hades. I did not recant for saying ol Thin Mustache would go to heaven.

🧐

I’ll be back tomorrow... 👍

Regarding the parent-anology, I don't think that situation is comparable to god.

A) You describe the world to your children, but you didn't create the world for your children. God describes a world he himself created, so if we ask him "why is murdering people bad", his answer should be better than "it just is, ok".

B) You talk about your children growing up and understand. They "learn about cars". So they can learn to verify your commands and the logic behind them from independent sources. But as you have said, without god, there is no moral, no good or bad. So we cannot verify any of gods commands, because without him, nothing makes sense. So we never "grow up", we always stay infants who cannot understand that murdering people is bad, because the only reason it is bad is "because god said so".

Atheism is about the furtherest you can get from nihilism. Because when I do good in the world it's not out of fear of retribution from a spiritual father figure. It's because I truly believe that empathy and kindness has a value for it's own end. I believe that the human experience has value for everyone, not just myself.

14 minutes ago, Sandmann87 said:

we always stay infants who cannot understand that murdering people is bad, because the only reason it is bad is "because god said so".

Murder is a violation of someone's existence. I don't need god to tell me murder is wrong. I can reflect how I would feel about being murdered, how I would feel about my loved ones being murdered, and how terrible society would be if murder was condoned.

My system of ethics comes from empathy and caring for others.

5 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

Murder is a violation of someone's existence. I don't need god to tell me murder is wrong. I can reflect how I would feel about being murdered, how I would feel about my loved ones being murdered, and how terrible society would be if murder was condoned.

My system of ethics comes from empathy and caring for others.

JBFancourt has said that murdering people is only wrong because god said it's wrong. I believe differently. My point is that following his own logic, his example is flawed.

12 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

My system of ethics comes from empathy and caring for others.

Congrats, that's pretty much the same as God's. There's a reason the summary of the 10 Commandments is "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:30-31.

17 minutes ago, Bravo Null said:

Congrats, that's pretty much the same as God's. There's a reason the summary of the 10 Commandments is "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:30-31.

Except for all the killing god did. I'm sure a lot of those people didn't appreciate that.

Also god giving kids bone cancer and HIV kinda sucks.

11 minutes ago, Bravo Null said:

Congrats, that's pretty much the same as God's. There's a reason the summary of the 10 Commandments is "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:30-31.

Than why do we need god in the first place? Why not ignore god, live a good life, and when you kick the bucket the old man looks at you and gives you the keys to heaven.

Your system just sounds like atheism with extra steps.

39 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

Also god giving kids bone cancer and HIV kinda sucks.

Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” Job 2:10

40 minutes ago, Sandmann87 said:

Than why do we need god in the first place? Why not ignore god, live a good life, and when you kick the bucket the old man looks at you and gives you the keys to heaven.

Because that's not how it works!

42 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

Also god giving kids bone cancer and HIV kinda sucks.

The Fall ruined Earth. You want proof of Satan? You just gave it.

1 hour ago, Bravo Null said:

Because that's not how it works!

A) Why?

B) Says who?

1 hour ago, Bravo Null said:

The Fall ruined Earth. You want proof of Satan? You just gave it.

Is Yahweh not all powerful or do you admit Satan is more powerful?

2 hours ago, Bravo Null said:

Because that's not how it works!

Let people believe what they want to believe. You don't have to galivant around saying they're wrong. Yes there are ******* extremists out there but bad people exist independent of religion as well.

My own perspective: The bible has some great stories. I cannot prove or disprove it as a historical text, and it really doesn't matter to me if it is or isn't historical. If it is an anthology of stories created, those ideas and stories probably came from somewhere even if the texts may not be literal interpretations. A lot of those stories would have been by word of mouth and as people tell stories they exaggerate and embellish or simply misremember. So we can never really know for certain what parts are accurate if any.

I am an atheist because of my belief that if a God exists and can watch the suffering in the world go on, then I am sorry that makes him a p***k in my eyes. If there was someone in my life who had the power to end my suffering but chose to just watch and then said "worship me" I'd slap him across the face and tell him exactly what I thought of it. Now that I think about it, we have a word for people who tell you to worship them and still let you suffer whether or not you do, they're called dictators.

If when I die there are indeed those pearly gates there won't be enough spit and vitriol in my ethereal being for the verbal tirade I am going to deliver to this/these so called 'God(s)'. I will look Saint Peter in the eye and tell him with no hint of irony "get me the ****ing manager. I have a few words to say."

I am fully aware of the arguments that will be levelled against me for that opinion. Well, that's my opinion. If God exists then in the word of Marty McFly "He's an ***hole!"

16 hours ago, Sandmann87 said:

Than why do we need god in the first place? Why not ignore god, live a good life, and when you kick the bucket the old man looks at you and gives you the keys to heaven.

Your system just sounds like atheism with extra steps.

Cause all have fallen short(Null I forget the ref) and need Jesus to take away that sin. Without Jesus God won't let u in, cause God is Holy and that wouldn't work. See? You have eyes and yet you do not see and ears and yet you do not hear(Null!)

4 minutes ago, ImperialYeet said:

Cause all have fallen short(Null I forget the ref) and need Jesus to take away that sin. Without Jesus God won't let u in, cause God is Holy and that wouldn't work. See? You have eyes and yet you do not see and ears and yet you do not hear(Null!)

A'ight but what about Valhalla and Folkvangr?

Just now, KCDodger said:

A'ight but what about Valhalla and Folkvangr?

Those are for great warriors(Like ur father, luke) not us regular peeps

8 minutes ago, ImperialYeet said:

Those are for great warriors(Like ur father, luke) not us regular peeps

Haha.
There's certainly some debate about what it takes to get into Valhalla. Some say that to fool Heimdall, or something else that kept watch, even Norsemen who did not die in battle would be given an axe to die with. Dunno' if it ever worked. But there's many battles to fight, one hardly has to outright die in battle, I don't think.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Haha.
There's certainly some debate about what it takes to get into Valhalla. Some say that to fool Heimdall, or something else that kept watch, even Norsemen who did not die in battle would be given an axe to die with. Dunno' if it ever worked. But there's many battles to fight, one hardly has to outright die in battle, I don't think.

From what I know, they must die heroically in battle with a weapon.

16 hours ago, Sandmann87 said:

A) Why?

B) Says who?

If you completely ignore God and disregard Him as real, why would He let you into heaven? You don't get into heaven based off of good works but you have to accept the gift of eternal life to go to heaven you can't just ignore God and assume to receive eternal life. And for says who, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--" Ephesians 2:8. Salvation is a gift we don't earn but we still gotta accept it.

16 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

Is Yahweh not all powerful or do you admit Satan is more powerful?

Yahweh is all powerful and Satan has no power over Him and he knows this. In Job, when Satan afflicts Job with all manner of punishments to test his faith, Satan can do nothing before going to God and asking for permission to do this to Job. We disobey Him every day of our lives and thus God allows for punishment to enter the world. Sickness and death are a part of the punishment of the fall. Many people see problems and blame God but the fault lies on ourselves. We are the one's who disobeyed first. And yet, even though we disobey so often, God still loves us and gives us the free gift of salvation.