1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

******* ****... A collaborator, in this context, is any one deemed by an organization to be working or to have worked against said organization's goals with said organization's opposition. Empire, Republic, FO, New Republic, Black Sun, Rebel Alliance, etc can all be slotted in as the organization and it'd still be a valid term for someone who worked with their opposition against their ends.

In its most simplistic form a collaborator is someone working with someone else towards a mutually beneficial goal (I.E. Mining Guild/Empire, Zori Bliss/The Resistance, and Chirrut Îmwe/Saw's Partisans among others).

None of that is incorrect. There's a lot of ways the word collaborator can be used. Some of them sound kinda funny.

It'd still feel really ****ing weird to call Chirrut Imwe a collaborator, given the context of villains like the Empire and First Order.

20 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

None of that is incorrect. There's a lot of ways the word collaborator can be used. Some of them sound kinda funny.

It'd still feel really ****ing weird to call Chirrut Imwe a collaborator, given the context of villains like the Empire and First Order.

It's like the word consequence. It covers both reward and repercussion but people norrow mindedly consider it to only mean repercussions...

16 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

It's like the word consequence. It covers both reward and repercussion but people norrow mindedly consider it to only mean repercussions...

Do you not understand the idea of context? In what world would anyone look at a Star Wars game box, see the word "Collaborators" and think, "ah yes, collaboration, the process of two or more people or organizations working together to complete a task or achieve a goal", and not immediately make a connection with wartime collaboration?

19 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Do you not understand the idea of context? In what world would anyone look at a Star Wars game box, see the word "Collaborators" and think, "ah yes, collaboration, the process of two or more people or organizations working together to complete a task or achieve a goal", and not immediately make a connection with wartime collaboration?

US military and the predicessor to MI6 collaborated with the Maqis so...

glad to see dictionary wars are alive and well on this points eve eve

17 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

US military and the predicessor to MI6 collaborated with the Maqis so...

Sure and Hans collaborated with Hermann when they were carrying their MG34 together. Totally unrelated to anything and useless for the purpose of naming products.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

It's like the word consequence. It covers both reward and repercussion but people norrow mindedly consider it to only mean repercussions...

This thread will be worth reading momentarily.

37 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

This thread will be worth reading momentarily.

? Probably will be better after we've had a chance to ask FFG about the accuracy of the leaks from this importer. I'm frankly tired of arguing over the accuracy of an emotion based narrowing of the application of a term.

10 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

? Probably will be better after we've had a chance to ask FFG about the accuracy of the leaks from this importer. I'm frankly tired of arguing over the accuracy of an emotion based narrowing of the application of a term.

Because momentarily can mean either "in a moment," or "for a moment."

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Because momentarily can mean either "in a moment," or "for a moment."

Fair enough.

Where does this weird idea of naming a Resistance pack from the point of view of the FO come from? No Ace pack has ever had such a negative name, even the Scum ones and they are the faction called 'Scum and Villainy'. Scum faction on the whole and to a lesser extent Separatists (Servants of Strife Squadron Pack) are the only factions with any negative connotations in product names and they fit the themes of those factions. Resistance were hated by FO in EpVII and even not publicly supported by the legitimate Republic, and yet their first ace type pack was still 'Heroes of the Resistance'. If a battle of Endor themed Rebel pack came out would we expect it to be called 'Pitiful Band' or 'Traitors and Scum' (all words used by the Imperials in the OT)? Wouldn't that be massively weird?

I wouldnt get so caught up in the titles of these products. They have yet to be officially announced. Some of these titles make sense and sound final, others could be placeholders. In any case I'm excited to see the older factions get some new options!

As an aside I think Poe dameron is the only pilot that they had to "fix" in both editions with new iterations.

The case is much stronger for f&c to be scum, imo

Not only does it come alongside the other OG factions, the Phoenix Cell and Skystrike Academy are both references to Rebels cartoon era (pre-New Hope) and 'Fugitives and Collaborators' is a natural reference to scum characters from this material--many of them are either fugitives from or collaborating with the Empire--so it's a strong fit there. Also, i know things could have been rearranged in the meantime, but we were specifically told in the announcement that the Resistance ace pack is coming first which makes me think it will be out before the Phoenix/Skystrike/F&C packs are released

12 minutes ago, Maui. said:

The case is much stronger for f&c to be scum, imo

Not only does it come alongside the other OG factions, the Phoenix Cell and Skystrike Academy are both references to Rebels cartoon era (pre-New Hope) and 'Fugitives and Collaborators' is a natural reference to scum characters from this material--many of them are either fugitives from or collaborating with the Empire--so it's a strong fit there. Also, i know things could have been rearranged in the meantime, but we were specifically told in the announcement that the Resistance ace pack is coming first which makes me think it will be out before the Phoenix/Skystrike/F&C packs are released

Add to that that there is no release date coupled with the importer's inventory listing (at least not that I noticed) and that FFG may still be using the term "Aces Pack" to reference 2 ship small base boxes (as they did for 1.0) so it could be none of the Squadron packs (which till now have been 3 ship, support/med fighter + 2x filler/swarmer starter kits) were what they mentioned in the Adepticon substitution stream. While I'm of the opinion that the F&C squadron pack could be either Resistance or S&V, I agree there is still a stronger case for it to be S&V due to what it looks like it may be being released along side. HWK = 2x MGT fits it the best imo.

6 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

FFG may still be using the term "Aces Pack" to reference 2 ship small base boxes (as they did for 1.0) so it could be none of the Squadron packs (which till now have been 3 ship, support/med fighter + 2x filler/swarmer starter kits) were what they mentioned in the Adepticon substitution stream. While I'm of the opinion that the F&C squadron pack could be either Resistance or S&V, I agree there is still a stronger case for it to be S&V due to what it looks like it may be being released along side. HWK = 2x MGT fits it the best imo.

Excellent points. I think a T-70 + Scavenged YT-1300 pack would be decent Aces Pack fodder, despite being a retread. Whereas I still feel it would be of benefit to get the OG factions up to parity with Republic & Separatists by way of a Squadron Pack.

That of course leaves FO out of the cool kids club. I wonder if they could get an Aces Pack, too. Maybe an Upsilon plus something? How about a Vonreg! That seems like the perfect chassis to help sell an Ups with an attractive repaint & a couple of new pilots.

EDIT: Forgot to say again that I think a Scum HWK release would be super fun, and also very useful to the faction. Throw in a second title (maybe with a 2-front-arc and milder ability?) as motivation for us old-timers to go in for a second HWK, and FFG could probably drum up some decent sales.

7 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Forgot to say again that I think a Scum HWK release would be super fun, and also very useful to the faction. Throw in a second title (maybe with a 2-front-arc and milder ability?) as motivation for us old-timers to go in for a second HWK, and FFG could probably drum up some decent sales.

I wouldn't mind another HWK, but I'd prefer new pilots or a title that focuses on a different part of its kit, rather than a second way to give Torkil and Palob an extra arc. The HWK chassis has some interesting features, like the jam action and being a very low-cost crew carrier, but rarely gets used for that because it is overshadowed by the strong pilot abilities and because Scum have few crew that help a ship other than the one they're on.

6 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

a title that focuses on a different part of its kit

Gamut Key's HWK! Scum/young Rebel Kanan in a HWK that has a cloaking ability would be pretty epic, and the ship is desperate for a title that gives it a reason to exist but isn't as pricey as Moldy Crow.

If Armada is to be believed, we could see Kanan on a cloaking HWK! Of course, we can already do this with the illicit (which is overpriced) but it would be nice to see a title that works with it somehow or that focuses on its bombing ability (or maybe a few different titles! Make something up, FFG )

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Gamut Key's HWK! Scum/young Rebel Kanan in a HWK that has a cloaking ability would be pretty epic, and the ship is desperate for a title that gives it a reason to exist but isn't as pricey as Moldy Crow.

If Armada is to be believed, we could see Kanan on a cloaking HWK! Of course, we can already do this with the illicit (which is overpriced) but it would be nice to see a title that works with it somehow or that focuses on its bombing ability (or maybe a few different titles! Make something up, FFG )

This painting scheme would be awesome:

6 minutes ago, Odanan said:

This painting scheme would be awesome:

Definitely would make an awesome Scum ship. Scum Kanan is just a cool idea to me, though I'm not sure how Canonical it would be.

Even the Star Wars: Commander version would be better-looking IMO than the Moldy Crow:

Of course, I know it's heresy to dis on the old Jan Ors and Kyle Katarn since they're some of the most beloved Legends characters. Still, that looks a little more like a Rebel paint scheme to me.

21 minutes ago, Odanan said:

This painting scheme would be awesome:

= )

Green engine glow isn't strong and didn't photograph well, as well as the highlight/drybrush wasn't quite bright enough (it always darkens after I apply sealer...), but still.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Definitely would make an awesome Scum ship. Scum Kanan is just a cool idea to me, though I'm not sure how Canonical it would be.

That black HWK is canon (even more than the one we got).

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Even the Star Wars: Commander version would be better-looking IMO than the Moldy Crow:

Of course, I know it's heresy to dis on the old Jan Ors and Kyle Katarn since they're some of the most beloved Legends characters. Still, that looks a little more like a Rebel paint scheme to me.

Oh, this looks good too! Can we have both?

5 minutes ago, Odanan said:

That black HWK is canon (even more than the one we got).

Oh I know; I meant how canonical Kanan as pilot (vs Kanan as crew) and Kanan as scum (vs Kanan as rebel) would be.

I'm happy either way.

Just moar content plz

9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Oh I know; I meant how canonical Kanan as pilot (vs Kanan as crew) and Kanan as scum (vs Kanan as rebel) would be.

I'm happy either way.

Just moar content plz

I haven't read the Kanan book, but the Wookiepedia article says he was stealing IG droids, so Caleb Dune crew for Scum, maybe? Any other background as to what Caleb/Kanan was doing at the time?