2 hours ago, Odanan said:

Yep, it is clear now.

Poe's white/orange X-Wing + what? 2x A-wings? Or the Scavenged YT-1300? (since it was not re-released in 2nd ed.)

Lots of Ep. 9 characters included, I suppose.

There is about 0% chance they named a Resistance pack "Collaborators" unless they picked a random word from the dictionary.

It's just a small leak, not a comprehensive list of all future releases, there may be any number of unannounced products between now and the release of those three packs. In fact, if you look at the product numbers, the next wave is SWZ69-71, then the card packs SWZ72-78 which is the highest I found, then there are four free spots and the leaked packs at SWZ83-85.

I also bet Fugitives and Collaborators is S&V content. Goes hand in hand with the other 2 OT releases (Phoenix and Skystrike).

Really hard to say what Fugitives and Collaborators will go. Names sounds more like the Resistance after VIII and we know they are going for themes with these expansions, but Resistance going with Rebels and Empire seems weird???

I guess FO is getting that new shuttle with CIS and GAR so meh? Throw in they said Resistance is first and even pointed out the orange X-wing..............

Could go with the Crabbok theory that the unknown "continental" one is the first fighter pack that is coming out before the other three. Just the name is just super off https://www.lionrampantimports.com/x-wing/x-wing-2nd-ed-continental-wt-expansion-pack-ffgswz68 .

2 hours ago, eMeM said:

There is about 0% chance they named a Resistance pack "Collaborators" unless they picked a random word from the dictionary.

It's just a small leak, not a comprehensive list of all future releases, there may be any number of unannounced products between now and the release of those three packs. In fact, if you look at the product numbers, the next wave is SWZ69-71, then the card packs SWZ72-78 which is the highest I found, then there are four free spots and the leaked packs at SWZ83-85.

Yeah, all I can think with people predicting 'Fugitives and Collaborators' is Resistance is that they don't know what 'collaborator' means.

19 minutes ago, rawbean said:

Yeah, all I can think with people predicting 'Fugitives and Collaborators' is Resistance is that they don't know what 'collaborator' means.

Take the term and apraise it from the perspective of the First Order after E8...

6 hours ago, eMeM said:

There is about 0% chance they named a Resistance pack "Collaborators" unless they picked a random word from the dictionary.

What else would you call the massive fleet Lando and Chewie drummed up? They're sure not Resistance, but they definitely seem to be collaborating with those fugitives...

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Take the term and apraise it from the perspective of the First Order after E8...

This.

Of course, I'd much, much rather see a scum pack (give me Hondo!), I don't even play Resistance at all. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up for Scum when the devs said Resistance would be first...

6 hours ago, eMeM said:

There is about 0% chance they named a Resistance pack "Collaborators" unless they picked a random word from the dictionary.

lol, whut? Collaborator noun 2. a person who cooperates traitorously with an enemy; a defector.

Sounds like exactly what the First Order would call anyone who worked in/with the Resistance.

10 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Take the term and apraise it from the perspective of the First Order after E8...

6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

What else would you call the massive fleet Lando and Chewie drummed up? They're sure not Resistance, but they definitely seem to be collaborating with those fugitives...

6 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

lol, whut? Collaborator noun 2. a person who cooperates traitorously with an enemy; a defector.

Sounds like exactly what the First Order would call anyone who worked in/with the Resistance.

You don't collaborate with the a resistance movement. What would be a difference between a resistance member and a resistance collaborator? Don't treat "collaborate" as a universal synonym to "work with", it has particular historical connotations and requires certain positions within a power structure. Collaborators are specifically traitors , even in the cited definition , and even though that one doesn't mention it, the most common understanding is they are working with the occupying force against their own people. Merriam-Webster:

Definition of collaborator

: a person who collaborates with another: such as

: someone who assists an enemy (such as an invader or part of an occupying force)

//… the Germans had allies and collaborators who, whether from conviction or perceived necessity, sought a privileged place in Hitler's New Order. — Robert Skidelsky

The massive fleet Lando pulled out of his donkey are not collaborators because they aren't traitors, not even from the FO perspective. You don't call people whom you've attacked or whose territory you occupy traitors for opposing you.

The Resistance wouldn't call The First Order "resistance fighters" from their perspective even though FO does resists them. Likewise you don't call people helping the resistance "collaborators". The resistance, resistance fighter, terrorist, partisan.

Rebels are not called Scum even if thats how Imperials refer to them...

• It's clearly not impossible to use the word collaborators for folks assisting insurgent groups.
• I think the more-common usage of collaborators is for folks assisting occupying fascist forces.
  • Specifically, I think it usually gets filtered through the French perspective of WWII, with the French Resistance on the one side, and the Vishy government and collaborators on the other.
• I personally wouldn't have named a Resistance pack "Fugitives and Collaborators," and gone with fugitives and... insurgents, guerillas, agitators, subversives, revolutionaries. Something like one of those.
  • Given that we take a lot of queues from the French WWII usage, for someone to be both resistance and collaborator feels dissonant to me. It just sounds really wrong, even if there's is a technical sense in which it's not-inaccurate . Just doesn't fit right, IMHO.

2 hours ago, eMeM said:

Collaborators are specifically traitors ,

My personal guess is Scum, because it makes squadron packs for the 3 old factions, and the rest to add for the new factions. Simple as that.

And it which faction will be the Razor Crest ? No choice but S & V. It makes A LOT of ships in S & V, which is precisely the reason why they splitted factions in 2.0.....

Is it possible this 3 packs get released in 2020?

21 minutes ago, LUZ_TAK said:

Is it possible this 3 packs get released in 2020?

Unlikely, in my opinion. We have Wave 7 in September first and then we have the potential leaked Wave 8 from this same source (TIE/rb, V-Wing, ETA-2 Actis, Tri-Fighter). If these packs are Wave 9, that would mean 3 waves in 4 months.

If FFG want to prove me wrong, however, I will welcome it with open arms. My wallet won't, but I will.

Too bad. Seems I would only spend money on the Tie Heavy, maybe. Not very fun of the model or the whole idea of it.

2 hours ago, LUZ_TAK said:

Is it possible this 3 packs get released in 2020?

I mean it's possible but they haven't officially announced these yet. I got the impression from the adepticon preview that resistance was coming first so I didn't think they would come in one wave to begin with.

Just looking at legion I think were in for a wild ride with releases for next coupe of months.

11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

• It's clearly not impossible to use the word collaborators for folks assisting insurgent groups.
• I think the more-common usage of collaborators is for folks assisting occupying fascist forces.
  • Specifically, I think it usually gets filtered through the French perspective of WWII, with the French Resistance on the one side, and the Vishy government and collaborators on the other.

It's because of this that I suspect a Scum pack which includes two Mining Guild TIEs and one other ship, as the MG are very much Imperial collaborators. It would make sense for the three packs to be for the three 1.0 factions, and it could also follow the two cheap fighters + one heavier fighter pattern from the prequel faction packs.

If it isn't the Ace's Pack that was talked about at the Adepticon substitution stream (we do not have a timeline for these squadron packs nor the previous SKU's "spoiled" by this importer) then HWK-290 (didn't Kanan Jarrus fly one in a comic tied into the Rebels series?) + 2x MGTs fit the OT sub theme the other two Squadron Packs represent.

22 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

lol, whut? Collaborator noun 2. a person who cooperates traitorously with an enemy; a defector.

Sounds like exactly what the First Order would call anyone who worked in/with the Resistance.

Finn

On 6/26/2020 at 2:55 AM, 5050Saint said:

lol, whut? Collaborator noun 2. a person who cooperates traitorously with an enemy; a defector.

Sounds like exactly what the First Order would call anyone who worked in/with the Resistance.

10 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Finn

On 6/25/2020 at 11:30 PM, Hiemfire said:

Take the term and apraise it from the perspective of the First Order after E8...

How do this many people not know what a collaborator is?

Finn isn't a collaborator. Collaborators are traitors, but not all traitors are collaborators. Finn defected. He fully switched sides.

A collaborator is someone who provides support to an enemy against the wishes of their goverment, but while remaining outwardly a part of that nation or organisation. This is why collaborators are typically civilians, and the situation typically occurs in occupied countries.

The closest we get to collaborators in Star Wars would probably be the Alderaanians, who were nominally still part of the Empire but provided tacit support to the Rebels.

The Resistance aren't exactly fugitives either. The First Order isn't 'the law' and they don't see the Resistance as mere criminals.

I'm not going to say for definite that 'Fugitives and Collaborators' isn't the Resistance pack, because we know one is coming and it's possible that FFG just picked a really weird name.

But if I had to put money on it, I would say F&C can't be Resistance. They're both terms with seriously negative connotations.

FFG don't name their packs after what the bad guys would call them. They're not going to call a Rebel pack 'terrorists and provocateurs' or something because the Empire don't like them. FFG are well aware that they're dealing with a universe with pretty black and white morality. They know we all know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. They're not going to call a good guy faction like the Resistance 'collaborators'. The term is just wrong sounding.

It would pretty perfectly fit the tone for the Scum faction. Fugitive especially, given that Scum's whole thing is that they're on dubious legal grounds at best. The Mandalorian puppet government from Rebels would be a great example of a collaborator, given they were placed there by the Empire, to whom most of the regular Mandos seem opposed to (if we take Clan Wren as an example). Gar Saxon's governorship parallels pretty closely to Vichy France, from what we can tell. He's a classic collaborator.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

FFG don't name their packs after what the bad guys would call them. They're not going to call a Rebel pack 'terrorists and provocateurs' or something because the Empire don't like them.

Pretty much this.

Again, it's not grammatically wrong to call Finn a collaborator, but if we're talking usage and not grammar, it's wicked strange . We had the "Saw's Renegades" rather than a more extreme term, and these were folks even the Rebels thought were somewhat extremist. Harshest we got was what, Partisan Renegade?

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

The Resistance aren't exactly fugitives either. The First Order isn't 'the law' and they don't see the Resistance as mere criminals.

I get the impression from episode 8 and 9, that they became the law after the Hosnian system was destroyed at least for part of the galaxy. Their unimpeded military action on Pasanna and their unimpeded door to door searches on Kijimi tell a story of some martial dominence.

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Again, it's not grammatically wrong to call Finn a collaborator, but if we're talking usage and not grammar, it's wicked strange .

Collaborators in WWII were those who actively collaborated with an enemy occupation of their own country -- or who were accused of doing so after the occupation was over. Fugitives were those who fled from that same occupation.

In SW lore this perfectly fits to the Empire era or immediately after its defeat. I guess there are many possible characters from all sources.

It marginally might fit to the sequel era, There is one possible character (DJ), but that's about it.

A Phoenix cell has to be Rebels. Sky Academy is Imperials. So the bet is on SV for the third pack. All have some ships which don't have a lot of pilots, yet. FO and Res could get missing reprints elsewhere, or packs not listed here. The RazorCrest has to appear.

A squadron pack could also be dual-faction, and it could contain actual scenarios and a story, so who knows with those titles?

******* ****... A collaborator, in this context, is any one deemed by an organization to be working or to have worked against said organization's goals with said organization's opposition. Empire, Republic, FO, New Republic, Black Sun, Rebel Alliance, etc can all be slotted in as the organization and it'd still be a valid term for someone who worked with their opposition against their ends.

In its most simplistic form a collaborator is someone working with someone else towards a mutually beneficial goal (I.E. Mining Guild/Empire, Zori Bliss/The Resistance, and Chirrut Îmwe/Saw's Partisans among others).