10 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Neither does FFG Star Wars.

Your failure to understand really isn't my problem.

31 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

They are functionally identical whether you count up or count down.

Well except you are leaving out the other half of the Mechanic. Crits are a part of the wound system.

18 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Your failure to understand really isn't my problem.

Your leaving out large parts of the rules is your problem. not the rules.

Daeglan, I'm just going to Ignore you. It's not like you can keep up anyway.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well except you are leaving out the other half of the Mechanic. Crits are a part of the wound system.

57 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Hit point mean: 1) you're at 100% until they are all gone, and 2) they increase with experience.

The games I mention don't do it that way.

The difference between crits and Wounds is quite interesting. They are simultaneously separate and linked.

The only time you are guaranteed to get a crit is when exceeding your wound threshold, and it is possible to die without exceeding your wound threshold and it is possible to exceed your wound threshold with no prior crits.

I'm going to have to side with HappyDaze on this one. I like the system, but he's right it is a hit-point system based on his criteria. It is a bit unusual, but it still fulfills his criteria.

In FFG's system, the statement "You're at 100% until they are all gone" is correct, if a bit backwards as far as up/down. However, there is another effect, crits, that can change that. But because it is possible to be at 100% until you exceed your wound threshold, I would say that the statement is correct.

The second "They increase with experience" is also correct as you increase WT by purchasing ranks of Toughened.

On an earlier point regarding stimpacks, they are a mechanic I like ("accept as being necessary, and can narratively justify" might be a better way to say that), but would consider removing them for certain styles of game. I can definitely understand the people who dislike them.

The styles of games I run tend to be pretty combat-heavy,* and stimpacks add a lot of flexibility, flexibility that I like both as a player and as a GM. I've defended stimpacks at length in other threads and so will not reiterate here, but I think they have a place.

If I was running a much less combat-heavy game, I would strongly consider removing stimpacks, as it would make combat much more dangerous and punishing, and would make natural rest, bacta, and medical care much more important. One thing I find a bit disappointing about the stimpack system is how unimportant it can make the other methods of recovery, especially once you have someone with Stimpack Specialization.
In a nutshell, it would make injuries stick around for much longer.

One compromise here would be to dramatically increase the rarity and maybe increase the price of stimpacks (and not allow your players to hijack several crates of stims, a mistake I made ). This would increase the... well... cost to using them, and would make them much harder to acquire. To narratively justify this, say it's because of the bacta included. Increase the rarity to about on par, maybe a tad lower because of higher demand. The utility granted by the stimpacks would be enough to offset this added difficulty, I imagine.

Another change I proposed is having the effects wear off. I like this idea, but it could be a bit hard to book-keep for. I also proposed an alternative of bacta patches, which would heal overtime, offsetting the wear-off of the stimpacks. This would solve the book-keeping issue if you always use them simultaneously, but have the same issue as the stimpack wear-off if the patches were used independently.

I think I'll keep it as-is for my games though. Part of that is a matter of PbP (sadly, I don't get to play in-person very much) not being especially conducive to frequent-use houserules that require all the players to remember and use, rather than GM-only houserules.

*One (an in-person game) is a very, very narrative-light game that's pretty much just a videogame with something of a storyline. So... yeah. Stims fit right in, no question.

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

You got anything to back that up with, or are you just being snarky because you have no defense?

You mean on top of all the answers I gave you in the past 127 hrs where all I had to say was “I didn’t say that”, “I never claimed this”, etc.?

double

post

53 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The difference between crits and Wounds is quite interesting. They are simultaneously separate and linked.

The only time you are guaranteed to get a crit is when exceeding your wound threshold, and it is possible to die without exceeding your wound threshold and it is possible to exceed your wound threshold with no prior crits.

I'm going to have to side with HappyDaze on this one. I like the system, but he's right it is a hit-point system based on his criteria. It is a bit unusual, but it still fulfills his criteria.

In FFG's system, the statement "You're at 100% until they are all gone" is correct, if a bit backwards as far as up/down. However, there is another effect, crits, that can change that. But because it is possible to be at 100% until you exceed your wound threshold, I would say that the statement is correct.

The second "They increase with experience" is also correct as you increase WT by purchasing ranks of Toughened.

technically it is not possible to die till you reach a crit of 140 or better

Just now, Daeglan said:

technically it is not possible to die till you reach a crit of 140 or better

So? I didn't say anything that contradicts that.

1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

Daeglan, I'm just going to Ignore you. It's not like you can keep up anyway.

keep up with what? the fact you keep ignoring huge parts of the rules to justify your complaint? OK. it is a bit disingenuous but ok.

12 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

You mean on top of all the answers I gave you in the past 127 hrs where all I had to say was “I didn’t say that”, “I never claimed this”, etc.?

There were precisely two, and it was really one in two parts. You implied, rather clearly, that you did not believe he has the grasp of the rules he claims. Apparently your point was simply that there is the potential that he doesn't implement the rules properly. But since you had no actual basis to call into question his understanding of the rules (or at least, you didn't give one), your point was invalid to begin with.

The only reason to state something like that is when you think there is reason to suspect that something is the case, otherwise you are simply stating something irrelevant. Therefore, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were basing it on something. A mistake I won't make again.

12 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

You implied

Nope

12 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Apparently your point was

Nope

12 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

your point was invalid to begin with

Nope

12 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The only reason to state something like that is when you think there is reason to suspect that something is the case

Nope

13 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Therefore, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were basing it on something.

Nope

6 hours ago, Malashim said:

Ripples from Legends of the Wulin are not finite. They only increase the chances to suffer increasingly more severe conditions, which are also not finite if you manage to "fight around" them. There will be a point where you will be beaten but this is not connected to "some sort of numerical measurement for a character’s health." - it is based on how clever someone can fight around the conditions they suffered.

And how are the actual injuries themselves tracked? By some form of numerical measure. That number may or may not go up over time, but it is still a finite value, however large the number is.

2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Hit point mean: 1) you're at 100% until they are all gone, and 2) they increase with experience.

The games I mention don't do it that way.

Wrong. Cyberpunk uses “Hit points” by name—and combat in that game is a lot more deadly— and as you take more and more damage, the greater it affects you. It isn’t all or nothing.

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

And how are the actual injuries themselves tracked? By some form of numerical measure. That number may or may not go up over time, but it is still a finite value, however large the number is.

The fact, that you seeminly assume how that system works and tell me you are still right brings me to the conclusion, that I won't participate in the next "Armor works like this" thread.

Time is too precious for this.

21 minutes ago, Malashim said:

The fact, that you seeminly assume how that system works and tell me you are still right brings me to the conclusion, that I won't participate in the next "Armor works like this" thread.

Time is too precious for this.

I don’t know what “ripples” are, what I’m concerned with is how actual injuries suffered are handled.

I know this is going to be a contentious opinion, but one benefit to a Hit Point-based system is approachability. I have introduced many RPGs to many new players and regarding character health, HP was easier to grasp. This is primarily due to the players I tend to play with are of an age that grew with with video games.

Of course, I have no doubt that there are people who experience the opposite. However, this industry is not very big one, so I feel having an approachable game is vital to its success.

With that being said, thanks to the runaway success of Critical Roll, Community, Rick And Morty (re: the R&M D&D box), and Stranger Things, Dungeons and Dragons is experiencing a boom. So like the generation before it, D&D is going to be their first hit of the RPG drug. It's easier to ride that train if you have something analogous to hook in the new players that are buy-curious - and FFG/Edge already has to struggle up-hill with the weird lucky charms dice.

this ******* forum LOL

Someone should hack the combat system from Millennium's End (Chameleon Eclectic game from the previous millennium) to this game. I'm sure that'll improve things Mass factors, trauma modifiers, impairement levels ...

27 minutes ago, Jegergryte said:

Someone should hack the combat system from Millennium's End (Chameleon Eclectic game from the previous millennium) to this game. I'm sure that'll improve things Mass factors, trauma modifiers, impairement levels ...

It would be really cool. But only if you have a computer to do all the math

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

It would be really cool. But only if you have a computer to do all the math

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I love that game. It just didn't pull any (return) players... I guess a modern day game (back then) didn't sound as exciting as space wizards, dragons, treasures and dwarves... Weirdly enough.

16 minutes ago, Jegergryte said:

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I love that game. It just didn't pull any (return) players... I guess a modern day game (back then) didn't sound as exciting as space wizards, dragons, treasures and dwarves... Weirdly enough.

well that and the fact that each attack takes longer as you have to move that template around. make the die roll and so on they did try it with the Babylon 5 rpg too

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

well that and the fact that each attack takes longer as you have to move that template around. make the die roll and so on they did try it with the Babylon 5 rpg too

Yeah, that was a simpler version than ME. Personally, at the time I thought it was inferior. Today, not so much. I've heard good thing about the B5 game, I have two print copies of everything published sitting on my shelf (well, in a box now as I'm in the process of moving,) never got around to playing it with anyone either... not many b5 fans in the gaming community around here.

4 hours ago, Jegergryte said:

Yeah, that was a simpler version than ME. Personally, at the time I thought it was inferior. Today, not so much. I've heard good thing about the B5 game, I have two print copies of everything published sitting on my shelf (well, in a box now as I'm in the process of moving,) never got around to playing it with anyone either... not many b5 fans in the gaming community around here.

fun game. I think the ME system is an amazing idea that doesnt work as well as one would like