54 minutes ago, Dadler93 said:

I've made Shoulderpads McLantern in Hero Forge as a base and then added a lot of things with Green Stuff and wire.
Here she is primed and ready to be painted together with some other heroes standing in queue

I have nothing ready for Shadar yet. I'll wait and see how McLantern turns out first.

WoW ! Impressive ! Were dis you get those stl files of other heroes ?

Seems like you used a SLS technology to print them, yes ?

Thematically they fit what they are quite well- their bios and other flavour text fits. Kirga's image does fit the scout choice as although she has the bow and arrow (scouts are often armed anyway) her actual clothing does suggest scout to me (amusing typo- I'd typed 'her actually clothing' well I hope so- one wouldn't want to go out exploring not being clothed...)

Zaltyre's right that Hugo could be seen as a crusader- indeed very well due to the Kellos link, which gets me onto a thought- maybe these two deserve special treatment as they so nicely fit certain flavours, Hugo as a sort of crusading warrior of Kellos and Kirga as a scout but who looks very much like she may be a magic (or similar powers) user, or even a warrior- so also having potential to mix things up a bit with the hybrid class options

so maybe both? Think it would be quite neat to be able to choose the specifics of these as you want to play your version of the character.

Quite a few characters have that vibe of being a bit of a mix character-wise, I see Varikas as a warrior but with maybe some significant healing ability somehow using death to aid life, which is why I immediately thought he'd make a good Healer- Soul Reaper as soon as I saw the Lost Legends article- there were a few fits to the unreleased and new (hidden in app) heroes including Shadar as an elementalist so I was so convinced when I saw that news article that there was something coming related to Shadar and the other missing/new heroes (I'd seen how such a release and LL could have tied in well to completing the H&M packs) but then there was the 'we're making nothing new for 2e' confirmation- I'm sure there was something Lost Legends tied into that got dropped- maybe it was part of a boxed expansion that was axed from the plans or was originally going to release alongside one and maybe the completion of the H&M packs (as I said I was also expecting something elements-themed, but I'm now using my theories for my fan project as I think it makes the Lost Legends cards even more relevant- I really like the set as it fits so well thematically to the characters. As for an elements themed full expansion I know elements has been done sooo many times as a theme but then fantasy, dragons, skellingtons etc etc, but what still works because it's always been awesome= never too much....) Maybe something in the new game? Lost Legends > Legends of the dark? Were they teasing something linked to that rather than teasing something linked to 2e with this and putting Shadar on the cover? Did Shadar evolve into Kehli? What was DJ06? Why has nobody invented time travel yet?

*Starts pondering making a more flexible archetype + class system, maybe with some biases for what fits characters and where it allows for such interesting choices that might actually really fit certain heroes' flavours well.* because I really like the idea that Varikas is both warrior and healer so maybe you choose an option- which calling does he choose?, sort of had similar ideas already with a couple of ideas where events in the campaign I'm working on maybe change a hero's path... What you could do's limited by the cards etc (unless you made custom ones) but I might think this one over a bit.

So my take

Should we keep Hugo as a Warrior or make him a Healer? Both

Should we keep Kirga as a Scout or make her a Mage? Both

so then for both you can choose their calling- does Hugo live for the fight (when that's all that he's got) or is he more drawn to his calling as a healer following his belief in Kellos (oh yeah, livin' on a prayer, sorry couldn't resist)

and does Kirga search out and track down Terrinoth's troubles or does she have some special magical abilities...

So voted 'either' as in either=both

https://descent2e.fandom.com/wiki/Hugo_the_Glorious

https://descent2e.fandom.com/wiki/Kirga

https://descent2e.fandom.com/wiki/Kirga?file=Kirga_full.jpg

https://descent2e.fandom.com/wiki/Crusader

https://descent2e.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_Reaper

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/2/11/lost-legends/

13 hours ago, ComtriS said:

I'd like to get more community opinions before we decide on the matter. The only other opinion we've gotten was from @Francesco Lamas who said "In fact I don't see any problem trying to change Hugo and Kirga , if that's what you want".

I don't mind tweaking the missing 12 characters abilities but to change their archetype is another topic in my opinion. We're not even able to agree upon the tweaks and this change complicates the thread.

About the picture I like the new Kirga picture as it is, with the yellow cap, but I don't know why , maybe because yellow cap sends the message to the Overlord: "Don't touch me, I'm dangerous".

3 hours ago, kbalazsa said:

I don't mind tweaking the missing 12 characters abilities but to change their archetype is another topic in my opinion. We're not even able to agree upon the tweaks and this change complicates the thread.

About the picture I like the new Kirga picture as it is, with the yellow cap, but I don't know why , maybe because yellow cap sends the message to the Overlord: "Don't touch me, I'm dangerous".

Hence why I think a poll is useful. Whatever the community decides.

And yes I agree about Kirga. The yellow cape is menacing. I prefer it.

About agreeing on the tweaks: this takes time, and I really only resurrected this topic less than a week ago with less than 1 quest of a playtest session. Playtesting requires many rounds of trial and error. You can only talk so much. You just have to try characters at some point.

And I really need the community's help to remind me of any scenarios where some of these characters could break things. @rugal has already given me a good example of a scenario with Kirga in The Man Who Would Be King that I need to test that might be game breaking. Additionally there's a potentially nasty combo with Kirga as Beastmaster taking Stalker. These issues need to be looked at and handled appropriately.

What about heroes stories ?

I thought of this one for Varikas :

Long time ago, during the ages of the second darkness, Varikas was a soldier among many others, and died as many others forgotten ones. Waiquar as always used his speed to rise all dead soldier into bis army, but some reasons, Varikas never heard his call and the kept his own free will. From that time, he wanders the world helping anybody in need do he could find a purpose of his life

17 hours ago, rugal said:

WoW ! Impressive ! Were dis you get those stl files of other heroes ?

Seems like you used a SLS technology to print them, yes ?

The other heroes are the real original figures.
They're just primed with black and then some white from above.

Sahla's spell effect is hand made with part of a paper clip and green stuff.

On 10/30/2020 at 2:37 AM, ComtriS said:

I think there is a bug : imagine during your turn, you used his feat, you draw power potion. It has then no effect, but also affect adjacent heroes and then return to the search deck.

3 hours ago, rugal said:

I think there is a bug : imagine during your turn, you used his feat, you draw power potion. It has then no effect, but also affect adjacent heroes and then return to the search deck.

What's the bug? The intention is you have access to health/fatigue/power potions at any time. If after rolling an attack, you want to use a power potion, you go get it.

3 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

What's the bug? The intention is you have access to health/fatigue/power potions at any time. If after rolling an attack, you want to use a power potion, you go get it.

Ha, it is search, and not reveal and take the first one that come. My mistake

The survey will remain open and no final decision will be made (so people who haven't discovered this topic have time to vote). But here are the current results:

Given this, I will be playtesting the Warrior version of Hugo and the Scout version of Kirga going forward. At least until the survey results change the other direction.

6-3-1. You sure we don't need a recount? 😉

They're essentially fan-made content at this point, so it makes sense to design them in the way that satisfies the most fans (regardless of what any FFG plans may or may not have been if any such plans ever existed ). I guess we'll never know.

32 minutes ago, Zaltyre said:

6-3-1. You sure we don't need a recount? 😉

Have you counted all the postal ballots and checked none of the three candidates got votes from peoples' pet cat/gerbil/dog......

So I've started a game alone with SOTP and Heirs of Blood campaign. I make every decision for the game as fairly competing Overlord would do so. It's not an easy game for the heroes. No re-rolls (after a badly timed X), no rollback of decisions.

Brother Glyr as Crusader/Knight

Laughin Buldar as Skirmisher

Bogran the Shadow as Thief

Landrec the Wise as Lorekeeper/Soul Reaper

Only 1 quest so far but has some sights already:

Bogran - the picture is a bit dark altough it's superb design. At least in my print I've lost some details. The pierce 2 seems tempting but it's a bit hard to trigger it with him - I've prepared to hit a Barghest with a superb attack of Landrec buff, 2 pierce and +1 from the Throwing Knifes but a monster movement ruined the plan - so easily. And then I realized that I don't like (too) conditional hero abilities - when I have to play for an ability instead of having the ability to help the hero. I was able to bring out that 2 pierce only once during the quest... OK it was a solid attack as a result with some luck on the dice as well. With Descent's LoS rules he's require too much planning and preparation for my taste. Perhaps if he'd has 5 stam or 5 speed - maybe that would help a bit.

Laughin Buldar - nothing special but cannot decide on him based on 1st quest. The 3/3 movement/stamina is a punishment at this time.

Landrec - Heroes moving closely together as a close unit if you have him that's solid. +1 surge means you can get 1 stamina from every attack, that seems too strong at first sight but he's in a pretty good balance in pro's and con's in my opinion. I like it.

Brother Glyr - Approved, I like it. With the Knight choice I wanted to balance his poor movement but with this ability this character surged into a new life, he's funny to play with as helps the team positioning a lot and with his con's it's pretty well balanced IMHO.

2 hours ago, kbalazsa said:

So I've started a game alone with SOTP and Heirs of Blood campaign. I make every decision for the game as fairly competing Overlord would do so. It's not an easy game for the heroes. No re-rolls (after a badly timed X), no rollback of decisions.

Brother Glyr as Crusader/Knight

Laughin Buldar as Skirmisher

Bogran the Shadow as Thief

Landrec the Wise as Lorekeeper/Soul Reaper

Only 1 quest so far but has some sights already:

Bogran - the picture is a bit dark altough it's superb design. At least in my print I've lost some details. The pierce 2 seems tempting but it's a bit hard to trigger it with him - I've prepared to hit a Barghest with a superb attack of Landrec buff, 2 pierce and +1 from the Throwing Knifes but a monster movement ruined the plan - so easily. And then I realized that I don't like (too) conditional hero abilities - when I have to play for an ability instead of having the ability to help the hero. I was able to bring out that 2 pierce only once during the quest... OK it was a solid attack as a result with some luck on the dice as well. With Descent's LoS rules he's require too much planning and preparation for my taste. Perhaps if he'd has 5 stam or 5 speed - maybe that would help a bit.

Laughin Buldar - nothing special but cannot decide on him based on 1st quest. The 3/3 movement/stamina is a punishment at this time.

Landrec - Heroes moving closely together as a close unit if you have him that's solid. +1 surge means you can get 1 stamina from every attack, that seems too strong at first sight but he's in a pretty good balance in pro's and con's in my opinion. I like it.

Brother Glyr - Approved, I like it. With the Knight choice I wanted to balance his poor movement but with this ability this character surged into a new life, he's funny to play with as helps the team positioning a lot and with his con's it's pretty well balanced IMHO.

Thanks for this @kbalazsa ! Keep those tests coming!

Bogran: perhaps his ability will need to increase to Pierce 3. I haven't played with this version yet, but we'll see. I really love this design and I love positional abilities like this, if the payoff is there.

Laughin: I also feel like the 3/3 move/stam is super punishing and you really need a LOT to make up for that. The only other heroes that have it are Trenloe, Hugo, Varikas. Trenloe easily makes up for it. Hugo and Varikas are also on this changelist, but Hugo has a black die that rerolls and Varikas recovers fatigue.

Landrec: I agree that on paper he looks too good, but when I was playing the previous version it wasn't good enough which is why I upgraded him to the version you tested. Glad you liked it and it seemed balanced.

Glyr: I agree this looks great, haven't tested this myself yet though. But from many reports now, it seems like people are happy with this version.

"Bogran: perhaps his ability will need to increase to Pierce 3. I haven't played with this version yet, but we'll see. I really love this design and I love positional abilities like this, if the payoff is there."

- I think that's the wrong direction, not only as Pierce 3 seems harsh but the problem is with the triggering conditions rather. A bit easier movement perhaps would be more helpful - so to position him more on the Scout'ish productline.

1 hour ago, kbalazsa said:

- I think that's the wrong direction, not only as Pierce 3 seems harsh but the problem is with the triggering conditions rather. A bit easier movement perhaps would be more helpful - so to position him more on the Scout'ish productline.

I too don't like Bogran ability, but I try to not design heroes so they only fit my play experience alone.

If you really don't like this, you can try replacing it with "each time you enter a space containing a figure, you may immediately move 1 space". So, especially as a thief may be really more easier to play

And add Pierce 2 to his feat then.

13 hours ago, kbalazsa said:

"Bogran: perhaps his ability will need to increase to Pierce 3. I haven't played with this version yet, but we'll see. I really love this design and I love positional abilities like this, if the payoff is there."

- I think that's the wrong direction, not only as Pierce 3 seems harsh but the problem is with the triggering conditions rather. A bit easier movement perhaps would be more helpful - so to position him more on the Scout'ish productline.

Do you have any specific suggestions on how to change Bogran that you think would be effective? How would you give him better mobility?

Hold on, not that fast. I've just finished the 1st Encounter of Rellegar's Rest which was a different experience for Bogran. Actually I would call this sequel as "The fall and rise of Bogran".

So we had a pretty good shopping and used the 1XP to buy Sneaky and a Staff of Greyhaven for Bogran, while Bouldar sold his Rusted Handaxe for a Blessed Shield and got Keen Edge. As he's literally never able to use Dual Strike from his poor 3 Stamina anyway... but hey, who needs Dual Strike if you have Landrec closeby?

We did a pretty good job with the Goblin Archer group on the first tile. Then we used the narrow path (18A) to block Splig (who's came angry while farting Weakened Bouldar and Landrec) and Bogran were positioned behind the 2 to prepare a sneaky backstab (with a Staff? ... yeah anyway) on Splig. Plan set, all fine ... except the reinforced boss Goblin hit Bogran from behind and then 2 Harpy fly through the barrier to finish the job and KO'd Bogran right away. Not even me as Overlod could do a better job - kill the fastest heroe in one turn while having the key (Red Objective token) in the other side of the pool (12A)?

But then he was revived by Landrec, healed up pretty well with Stream of Life (4 goblins gaved their souls for the good cause) then he just go through with 4 steps, and did a tremedous 7 damage on Splig with fairly good roll (3 + 3 from distance + 1 from Sneaky, no chance to decrease with Pierce 2). And then (with a little push by Glyr) he was on the run for the key and and to the door after that. While he was chasing the key in the pool the guys found a Stamina potion which allowed to reach the door just in time with a big final moment rush.

Luck was on our side during search too as Glyr was able to disarm the growing spider trap (smashed that little bastard in time with a test on his 4 Might) then found a Rune Plate - which helps Landrec to survive for sure.

Glyr and Landrec are still awesome, Bouldar still waiting to show his real potential - and urged to run faster by Glyr all the time...

2 hours ago, kbalazsa said:

Hold on, not that fast. I've just finished the 1st Encounter of Rellegar's Rest which was a different experience for Bogran. Actually I would call this sequel as "The fall and rise of Bogran".

So we had a pretty good shopping and used the 1XP to buy Sneaky and a Staff of Greyhaven for Bogran, while Bouldar sold his Rusted Handaxe for a Blessed Shield and got Keen Edge. As he's literally never able to use Dual Strike from his poor 3 Stamina anyway... but hey, who needs Dual Strike if you have Landrec closeby?

We did a pretty good job with the Goblin Archer group on the first tile. Then we used the narrow path (18A) to block Splig (who's came angry while farting Weakened Bouldar and Landrec) and Bogran were positioned behind the 2 to prepare a sneaky backstab (with a Staff? ... yeah anyway) on Splig. Plan set, all fine ... except the reinforced boss Goblin hit Bogran from behind and then 2 Harpy fly through the barrier to finish the job and KO'd Bogran right away. Not even me as Overlod could do a better job - kill the fastest heroe in one turn while having the key (Red Objective token) in the other side of the pool (12A)?

But then he was revived by Landrec, healed up pretty well with Stream of Life (4 goblins gaved their souls for the good cause) then he just go through with 4 steps, and did a tremedous 7 damage on Splig with fairly good roll (3 + 3 from distance + 1 from Sneaky, no chance to decrease with Pierce 2). And then (with a little push by Glyr) he was on the run for the key and and to the door after that. While he was chasing the key in the pool the guys found a Stamina potion which allowed to reach the door just in time with a big final moment rush.

Luck was on our side during search too as Glyr was able to disarm the growing spider trap (smashed that little bastard in time with a test on his 4 Might) then found a Rune Plate - which helps Landrec to survive for sure.

Glyr and Landrec are still awesome, Bouldar still waiting to show his real potential - and urged to run faster by Glyr all the time...

Not many details here about Bogran or his ability. Did it work?

Yep, worked fine and it was fun to prepare the backstab and make it through despite the KO during the process. Splig had a 2 on his gray dice vanished by his Pierce 2 ability (forgot to mention). I'm in Encounter 2 since than and was able to trigger the Sneaky/Pierce combination twice again. So far so good, in narrow places it works just fine when he can hide behind his fellow hero foes. On open fields it's a bit harder to do so though- but it's ok, also good thematic-wise.

Don't forget, that I'm doing it in SOTP auto-Overlord mode, it might be a bit different in real Overlord mode... but that's something I cannot test alone, let alone having a lockdown here...

1 hour ago, kbalazsa said:

Yep, worked fine and it was fun to prepare the backstab and make it through despite the KO during the process. Splig had a 2 on his gray dice vanished by his Pierce 2 ability (forgot to mention). I'm in Encounter 2 since than and was able to trigger the Sneaky/Pierce combination twice again. So far so good, in narrow places it works just fine when he can hide behind his fellow hero foes. On open fields it's a bit harder to do so though- but it's ok, also good thematic-wise.

Don't forget, that I'm doing it in SOTP auto-Overlord mode, it might be a bit different in real Overlord mode... but that's something I cannot test alone, let alone having a lockdown here...

This is great. Thanks for the report and your playtesting efforts.

I can't wait to try Bogran myself. Seems like a fun and interesting character.

What a finish in 2nd Encounter of Rellegar's finish.

Only one damage left to be done for Merrick on the last pillar to finish the job and bury the team alive. Last turn, last chance to carry out the stolen treasure, carried by 'speedy' Glyr. He starts with his round 9 steps away from that, with 2 FP on his hero sheet. Odds against the team, but we have a slight chance so why not try it right? We're after everyone else's (including Merrick) turns only Bogran and Glyr left to do their job.

Bogran starts, carrying the Staff of Light, hit it twice, Glyr feels fresh and replenished like never before (Stamina 3). And his turn starts, urge himself and Bogran to make 2 steps quickly toward the exit, Glyr follows, Bogran steps next to Merrick. Glyr then uses the Oath of Honor to jump next to Merrick, 4 steps done all in all, 5 left to be done, but only 2 Stamina left and his speed is still only 2. Never mind, he hits Merrick freely now (Oath of Honor), and he's lucky to have a surge to get one of his FP back (I left Landrec 3 steps away unfortunately, so his all-surge magic cannot work). Job done, 4 steps and we won.

So far so good, I hope that I can buy some weapon now for Bouldar Buldar because he's the weak spot of this team clearly...

Bouldar 😄

His name his (laughin) Buldar, nothing like a boulder

23 minutes ago, rugal said:

Bouldar 😄

His name his (laughin) Buldar, nothing like a bouler

It was a typo. I was about to fix it but than I thought - maybe I wanted to write Boulder - hard like a rock... kind of. Yeah maybe he look alike (and has 14 HP), but he has finished with only 3HP left (after Staff of Light 2x). So than left as it is, as he's almost... maybe... but not yet...

Maybe that's one for the mini Mennaran dictionary I'm working on