4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:Neither do.
Also T70s are 41 points now. CHEAPER than arcs.
(I'm pretty excited for that)
Right, cheaper, not the same. I just don't like playing vs T-70s, they are too tough and mobile. ARCS can last a bit, but can also be focused and destroyed pretty easily. Plus it's way easier to block them, so their cost looks more justifiable. T-70s tho...
3 minutes ago, xanatos135 said:Right, cheaper, not the same. I just don't like playing vs T-70s, they are too tough and mobile. ARCS can last a bit, but can also be focused and destroyed pretty easily. Plus it's way easier to block them, so their cost looks more justifiable. T-70s tho...
Surprisingly we had exactly the opposite conclusions. Arcs piloted corrected really don't die. Whereas I was wholly unimpressed with T70s at their previous price point.
Do we think Heroic is worth spamming now at 2 points?
This is going to output some insanely better damage.
Major Vonreg (55)
Fanatical (2)
Hull Upgrade (7)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Total: 194
Generic T-70's are legit. 4 Rookies and Merle was capital G good. Now they all get BB astros or intimidation on Merle.
2pt Heroic on A-Wings probably not worth it.
I have found very few use cases where Vonreg was a better choice than Holo plus bid. Holo with Proud Tradition is just stupid good.
7 hours ago, gamblertuba said:Generic T-70's are legit. 4 Rookies and Merle was capital G good. Now they all get BB astros or intimidation on Merle.
2pt Heroic on A-Wings probably not worth it.
I have found very few use cases where Vonreg was a better choice than Holo plus bid. Holo with Proud Tradition is just stupid good.
Will keep that in mind. Holo is like mind-warping to process.
I forgot, what's Merle? Found it. Awing. Hmm. A blocking Awing.
Have you tried the 4 T70s with ATP instead? That sounds like a great boost on power. Though, both being 1 pt, I can see the BBs also saving your shot at least once, so that seems like same levels of value. (Heck, I suspect if ATP is good, it should be 2 points, vs BBs at 1)
Edited by Blail BlergATP seems like a trap on T-70s to me. On ships with 2 reds, sure. They miss a lot. They are unlikely to hit a long range shot anyway and they are cheap so you should have lots. On a three die gun, I want to be able to choose my targets.
A little while ago, 4x T-70 had a bit of a thing, but turned out to be a bit too one dimensional. Resistance should have some decent tools to salad with, and new things fit with them. I'd be more concerned facing 2-3 T-70s than 4, but I'm sure they gain a decent tilt with Merl.
To me, Heroic going up to 2 means the T-70 picture doesn't change a great deal. It's the extra options they have now that will push them along.
Just to say, I wouldn't be considering 4 T-70s with toys too much of a hot thing.
But plus Merl, he can be a pest.
57 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:ATP seems like a trap on T-70s to me. On ships with 2 reds, sure. They miss a lot. They are unlikely to hit a long range shot anyway and they are cheap so you should have lots. On a three die gun, I want to be able to choose my targets.
Imo, I suggest the math on choosing closer targets will end up earning considerable points in damaged ships towards the end game. I think this is an answer that can be decided simply based on trying a few test games and tallying the results.
Anyway, lemme know if you confirm your theory.
Here's a parting blast to a dying world. Some table Time thoughts on new ships
So I tried 3 LAATs vs 2Tri 3Hmp. Both lists are fun, T3 experimental. The CIS list is worse, the 3LAAT list is close to being T2 good. 3LAAT won with all ships down to half vs 2 remaining Hmps, approx 140 to 100.
3 LAATs really aren't that bad
, esp set up for jousting kill box. Warthog good also: didn't actually trigger. Try and go slow, lure them onto your side of the map. Their blues are awful (yet often adequate), but sometimes you really do want to 0 stop near the beginning. With Barrage rockets, these hurt like a truck. Everything is a 3 TL F attack. Start with bowtie pointed forward. Later in the game, you start to turn the turrets to the side. These side attacks were ok. They did contribute, but are notably not buffed by anything.
I put Barrage rockets on mine, and then Wolfpack was generating TLs like nuts.
(Surprisingly, only maybe 1 TL actually was useful, as a lot of things died to withering fire or just naturally rolled all paint+Focus). I also had Agile Gunner on each, used a few times, I'd say this is a good upgrade for 1 LAAT, but for all 3 its too expensive. Fives, and Clone Captain Rex are fair value. I'd rather have Hull on Warthog than Fives though. Also rather have Hull on each LAAT vs Agile Gunner. If there was a way to manage stress better, I would take it. Agile Gunners were good for changing the arc even while stressed. (But again, telegraphed and very expensive). Sync Console is worth considering, esp on Wolfpacked ship and in general for all of them.
The key of course to this 3 bumbling LAAT Strat is to box in their aces, hopefully get some barrage rocket shots off on their filler too if you can't. Use your 6 arcs to try and threaten space. The next version I'd try is dropping 1 Barrage rocket to Ion Missiles and adding a Torrent.
For the HMPs: Sideslip config is too expensive . It should be scaled to price=init. And thus PS1 HMPs should get it for 1 pt. These make them fun, but realistically, they don't seem to allow that much difference in dodging shots (thus saving you value). 1 or 2 XX23 Tracers is a good buy, you can have 1 mounted on an HMP and 1 mounted on a higher init ship. Discord Missiles or Diamond Boron or Mag Pulse (all under 5) are also excellent choices for upping their damage and are my first pick for value. The HMP itself seems a bit over costed especially since its a bit hard to use, and Vultures are just.. so good. I think they should go down to 33, I doubt 6 of them will pose a meta threat. (I think not in mass, they should cost 32). These seem to be better in mass (4 or 5 or 6), or 1. They seem a bit underwhelming at 2, and 3 is just not really synergistic.
Tri fighters need bodies to give them calculates. Also don't bump into things. Fly them in later and conservatively. They don't pair too well with HMPs and I think need around 6 bodies. I would remove 1 Tri, and go for more vultures. Honestly feel like the best Tri lists are going to be Vulture spam + 1 or 2 Tris until we get out from behind the specter of 2.0s Ace+generics craze. More upgrades and damage needed to get rid of generics. You can easily fit Tris into 8 ship lists.
New lists to try:
Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)
Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
DBS-404 (30)
Trade Federation Drone (20)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)
Grappling Struts (1)
Trade Federation Drone (20)
Ion Missiles (2)
Grappling Struts (1)
Trade Federation Drone (20)
Trade Federation Drone (20)
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
"Warthog" (54)
Barrage Rockets (8)
212th Battalion Pilot (49)
Barrage Rockets (8)
212th Battalion Pilot (49)
Ion Missiles (2)
Wolfpack (4)
Synchronized Console (1)
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
Major Vonreg (55)
Fanatical (2)
Hull Upgrade (7)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Automated Target Priority (1)
Total: 194
@Blail Blerg why don't you bring this awesome thread to BGG?
Here is where we are discussing lists:
https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/2589188/star-wars-x-wing-second-edition/strategy
I'm looking for effective Vwing lists. Anyone?
What makes me want to use Vwings?
Have no clue if it is good, but here you go:
Wilhuff Tarkin (34)
Shadow Squadron Escort (29)
Alpha-3B "Besh" (2)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Shadow Squadron Escort (29)
Alpha-3B "Besh" (2)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)
Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)
Total: 200
Wilhuff will toss locks while the other V's creat no-go zones with bomb and the Jedi Knights just punch really hard. You can trade Wilhuff for another bomber V if you want.