This last episode has given us another glimpse into what exactly it is that the First Order is doing to reach their end goals.

Kaz was still a bumbling idiot throughout the episode, thankfully Poe was there to try and make the episode more appealing.

We can see they reused Ruklin's fighter form earlier in the series at the end of the episode, though gave it a new paint job to be considered a new ship.

We also got to see the First Order probe droid, which was pretty cool actually.

I think at this point Kaz is a bumbling idiot. Honestly, he's probably the least unlikable major protagonist in any Star Wars thing ever.

He is a bumbling idiot and uterally incompetent. Its hard to remember the fact that he is a trained soldier, sure he no doubt got to his position through nepotism, but his actions in the prior episode not being able to give any sort of decent mission debrief or even be able to march with the rest of the forces without standing out. I mean sure he might have been pushed up through the system but he had to have some sort of military training when he joined the New Republic Navy.

I'd argue that he is one of the least likeable of the protagonists so far. Anakin wasn't great in the films but was enjoyable in Clone Wars, Luke was whiny in ANH but got better with the other films, Ezra was fine even if he basically just started out as Space Aladdin, Jyn was pretty boring, and Rey well I'm sure no one wants to go down a ST era discussion.

47 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

That's three ships with that same base chassis. Yeager's, his old squad mate's and who ever this belongs to. Getting an itch that this might end up being the Resistance faction's Z-95 simile.

https://www.starwars.com/news/buckets-list-extra-the-core-problem-star-wars-resistance

7. Symbol story. Sharp-eyed viewers may have spotted that among the village ruins is the same symbol worn on a bracelet once owned by Kel and Eila.

I wonder if this was their planet, or if it also was a host to a religion that existed on both planets, that they and/or their family followed.

Kaz is a dumb bumble****, and he makes every other character look like dumb bumble****s when they constantly "musta been the wind" every time he can't walk 10 feet without knocking over a pile of garbage.

Like, no exaggeration, he did that, like, 5 times in 5 minutes in episode 13. And every other character just keeps looking around like "I guess it was just my imagination. Ahyuk."

11 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Kaz is a dumb bumble****, and he makes every other character look like dumb bumble****s when they constantly "musta been the wind" every time he can't walk 10 feet without knocking over a pile of garbage.

Like, no exaggeration, he did that, like, 5 times in 5 minutes in episode 13. And every other character just keeps looking around like "I guess it was just my imagination. Ahyuk."

We understand ..... but, it IS a kids show.

If this trend continues with the upcoming Clone Wars season (which matured alot through the seasons), Cassian show, or Mandalorian, then we can address this further..

until that, remember: kids show. for kids... like 4 and up kids. lets just enjoy the build up info for Force Awakens.

59 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

We understand ..... but, it IS a kids show.

You know what else was made for kids, Avatar: The Last Airbender. Just because something is made for children doesn't mean it needs to be dumbed down so that excuse can be thrown around. If we don't expect them to make something good then they have no incentive to try and make it something good.

24 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

You know what else was made for kids, Avatar: The Last Airbender. Just because something is made for children doesn't mean it needs to be dumbed down so that excuse can be thrown around. If we don't expect them to make something good then they have no incentive to try and make it something good.

Dude, I understand, and agree. just saying its a kids show.. sometimes you get Batman: The animated series, Clone Wars, ect. Sometimes you dont. lets not forget that even Avatar had its goofy moments. mostly from Sokka. (who grew as a character, and less Kaz-like. so there is hope)

all we can do is hope they can grow these characters as its audience grows, like clone wars did.

57 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

Dude, I understand, and agree. just saying its a kids show.. sometimes you get Batman: The animated series, Clone Wars, ect. Sometimes you dont. lets not forget that even Avatar had its goofy moments. mostly from Sokka. (who grew as a character, and less Kaz-like. so there is hope)

all we can do is hope they can grow these characters as its audience grows, like clone wars did.

At least the difference was with Soka was that he was not the main character but rather the comic relief of the group, he just happened to have more to him that allowed him to be a compelling character in his own right.

As it is they have a dark setting with people being massacred juxtaposed with Kaz bumbling through everything, and I don't think that Kaz has even really had a moment to really stop and really reflect on something like Ezra was able to in season 1 of Rebels despite season 1 of Resistance being longer by a good few episodes. Hopefully the season finale with the events of TFA playing out will at least allow him some growth or reflection at the very least when season 2 starts.

Look, I just really don't like the kid's show excuse, its the kind of thinking that makes it so that adults generally ignore animation and gives a pass to creators who put out work with little care leading to films like The Emoji Movie and Uglydolls rather than trying to make films everyone can enjoy like Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse, or Toy Story.

11 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

At least the difference was with Soka was that he was not the main character but rather the comic relief of the group, he just happened to have more to him that allowed him to be a compelling character in his own right.

As it is they have a dark setting with people being massacred juxtaposed with Kaz bumbling through everything, and I don't think that Kaz has even really had a moment to really stop and really reflect on something like Ezra was able to in season 1 of Rebels despite season 1 of Resistance being longer by a good few episodes. Hopefully the season finale with the events of TFA playing out will at least allow him some growth or reflection at the very least when season 2 starts.

Look, I just really don't like the kid's show excuse, its the kind of thinking that makes it so that adults generally ignore animation and gives a pass to creators who put out work with little care leading to films like The Emoji Movie and Uglydolls rather than trying to make films everyone can enjoy like Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse, or Toy Story.

I'm right there with you, believe me.

I'm just saying its Disney making Star Wars for kids. I have my dvr set to record about 1 minute prior and after, and from what I get in that time frame is very kid orientated programming. While I agree that I would love more of a teen to adult Animated Star Wars, Its possible the mouse is using Resistance as a hook for the kiddies as a gateway to Star Wars that can get past any censor issues, tossing backstory in so when they are older they can have a fuller experience for the squeal trilogy than the rest of us did.

7 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

You know what else was made for kids, Avatar: The Last Airbender. Just because something is made for children doesn't mean it needs to be dumbed down so that excuse can be thrown around. If we don't expect them to make something good then they have no incentive to try and make it something good.

People who try to make this point seem to have forgotten the first season.

2 hours ago, Sithborg said:

People who try t  o make this point seem to have forgotten the first season.

Season 1 of Avatar is pretty strong, yes it has plenty of goofiness but it has plenty of serious moments, character development and struggles for the group to overcome and not always ending with a smile or goofiness. Heck, the second/third episode, depends on how you view the pilot/initial episode, deals with Aang having to deal with the fact his people were genocided while he was away, that he wasn't able to stop it because he chose to run from his duty.

Now, if you are talking about Korra, then yea that season wasn't nearly as strong, nor was its second but that show had a whole bunch of shenanigans the creators had to deal with behind the scenes.

"BUT ATLA"

every **** time

Kaz is annoying. Neeku is supposed to be comic relief, and manages to be comically inept but mostly through a catastrophic inability to 'get' subtext, much like Guardians of the Galaxy's Drax, not just from being an idiot. Kaz, by comparison - I get the feeling that the writers can't agree on whether he's supposed to be a mid-puberty teenager or a twenty-year old trained soldier.

I must admit to liking the rest of the show - the 'cold war' feel that's being pushed for the pre-Starkiller period. I'll be interested to see where they go with it.

’The Disappeared’ preview

On 2/20/2019 at 9:50 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Kaz is annoying. Neeku is supposed to be comic relief, and manages to be comically inept but mostly through a catastrophic inability to 'get' subtext, much like Guardians of the Galaxy's Drax, not just from being an idiot. Kaz, by comparison - I get the feeling that the writers can't agree on whether he's supposed to be a mid-puberty teenager or a twenty-year old trained soldier.

I must admit to liking the rest of the show - the 'cold war' feel that's being pushed for the pre-Starkiller period. I'll be interested to see where they go with it.

I agree, this show is super weird for me. I love everything about it, the setting, the aesthetic, most of what happens, even, but the main character doesn't do it for me. I enjoy following the show and keep looking forward to episodes, but I really can't stand him.

Kaz versus Incoming Objects: A First Season Analysis
# of slowly tilting probe droids that have struck Kaz: 1 out of 1
# of times an alien frog has connected its bite with his finger: 16 out of 16
# of times a stationary pile of crates has struck Kaz: 42 out of 42
# of blaster bolts fired at Kaz that have struck him: 0 out of 346


This character is insufferably and implausibly obnoxious and clumsy and over-reactive and makes Jar-Jar Binks look like a ballerina. To people saying that it's a kid show made by Disney on the Disney network so obviously they have to cheese up the character for kids, three observations:

(1) my children appear to hate Kaz and his tiresome antics ("Ugh... why is he always screaming!!!?? Doesn't he have have an 'inside voice'!")
(2) Being a parent, I've encountered lots of other kids shows on Disney, and none of them have a character anywhere close to as insufferable as Kaz (even Star Wars Rebels, which we'd think would be a direct model for how to market Star Wars to children on the Disney Network)
(3) This show is on at 10pm on school night, it's not in a high traffic real estate spot for young viewers. I'd love to see data on Viewers-by-Age, but I suspect the vast majority of viewers for Star Wars Rebels are 16+, ie far too old to need Kaz "comedified" with his antics as he is, and I suspect Disney anticipates an older audience given the IP (side-note: seriously, my god, how do any of you without kids actually make it through an episode each week...?)

If it helps, I believe I have a theory for Kaz: He is a political favor to his Senator Father.

After Kaz bumbles through his youth, his Dad pulls some strings and 'indulges' his son's passion for flying and gets him in the New Republic armed forces and OUT of the senator's home. While in the Flight Academy, his bumbling continues, but he's a competent enough pilot, and no one really wants any discipline issues blowing back from his Dad. So continues his career, but no one really wants to deal with either the bumbling, or any drama involving a senators son, so he gets posted to the furthest duty station that the Military can, just so he doesn't mess up to Jar Jar levels. Kaz is happy, so the chain of command is happy.

Then Poe finds him, and hey he's a nice enough kid and all, but if he's caught... Well... he wouldn't be missed by many.

And as it turns out, he isn't a half bad informant. He reports regularly, even provides hard data, his bumbling is almost an asset.. Any spy hunters dismiss him almost instantly.

Kaz is so lucky as he bumbles, I'm sure someone has wondered if he isn't actually Force sensitive....

31 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

Kaz is so lucky as he bumbles, I'm sure someone has wondered if he isn't actually Force sensitive....

Kaz is only pretending, and is actually Snoke.

10 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Kaz is only pretending, and is actually Snoke.

Snoke theory confirmed!

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

seriously, my god, how do any of you without kids actually make it through an episode each week...?)

Lots of eye rolls, and pushing through it in the hopes of getting new canon information for a period so very devoid of it, and see flying and astromechs something we don't see tons of aside from BB-8.

1 hour ago, RuusMarev said:

If it helps, I believe I have a theory for Kaz: He is a political favor to his Senator Father.

After Kaz bumbles through his youth, his Dad pulls some strings and 'indulges' his son's passion for flying and gets him in the New Republic armed forces and OUT of the senator's home. While in the Flight Academy, his bumbling continues, but he's a competent enough pilot, and no one really wants any discipline issues blowing back from his Dad. So continues his career, but no one really wants to deal with either the bumbling, or any drama involving a senators son, so he gets posted to the furthest duty station that the Military can, just so he doesn't mess up to Jar Jar levels. Kaz is happy, so the chain of command is happy.

Then Poe finds him, and hey he's a nice enough kid and all, but if he's caught... Well... he wouldn't be missed by many.

And as it turns out, he isn't a half bad informant. He reports regularly, even provides hard data, his bumbling is almost an asset.. Any spy hunters dismiss him almost instantly.

Kaz is so lucky as he bumbles, I'm sure someone has wondered if he isn't actually Force sensitive....

I understand completely that he was pushed through on nepotism on his father's side but you'd think that he'd at least have military training, it isn't like they let people get behind a ship without any training at all. But then again, who knows maybe the New Republic doesn't have a boot camp that breaks people down and builds them up out of fear of hurting their feelings and due to almost entirely taking on volunteers without training during the Galactic Civil War. Considering how incompetent the New Republic is in new canon, I guess it isn't that far of a stretch to see them doing that.

it is worth noting that his "bumbling" has been largely in specific situations.. by halfway through the series we see him doing fairly mundane things and he's not 'bumbling' at all.

he gets clumsy, anxious, and inarticulate in the following situations..

when he's nervous

when he's scared

when he's doing something he wasn't trained to do.

(and when he's excited, but that tends more towards a "hyper" variant)

as someone who has much the same issues IRL, i can sympathize.

which is why he did it so much in the beginning of the series.. he's in a strange place, with strange people, with social rules and conditions he doesn't know. this would make anyone nervous and scared. especially when he commits a social faux pass or accidentally antagonizes someone and he's facing down

he is also been asked to spy on the people of the platform.. something he was not trained to do at all. he was not trained to sneak around, so he gets nervous and scared and as a result he is constantly screwing up his efforts to be stealthy. though notice that in the more recent episodes he's been able to follow Synnara and First order troops without them noticing him or much in the way of knocking stuff over except when he's suddenly surprised by something. he wasn't trained to lie and maintain a false identity, so his efforts to do so in early episodes often fail rather spectacularly. but notice that recently he was able to actually pose as a First Order stormtrooper without them immediately realizing he was a fake, despite ignorance of how the first order does things. we see similar character development through the season. notice that he's no longer quite as inept at doing repairs and maintenance work now as well? some of it is obviously "on the job training" but it is also clear that he's gotten a lot more comfortable around his coworkers and with when the job is

kaz 'bumbles' because he grew up in a sheltered life and then got trained to be a pilot. and he's very good at being a pilot. then he got yanked outside his familiar environment and mad a spy in what is to him a completely alien world, with no training and no support, not even a pre-made cover story. not even another resistance member to give him advice on how to do the job or what to look for. (and no, BB-8 doesn't really count here.)

as the season has progressed, he's gotten a lot better at both living on the platform including dealing with its residents, but also the whole spy gig. and as a result he's gotten a lot less clumsy, anxious, and inarticulate most of the time. at least until something new happens that makes him nervous or scared, at which point he's back to 'bumbling'. which to be fair, is how this sort of thing happens IRL as well.

20 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

(3) This show is on at 10pm on school night, it's not in a high traffic real estate spot for young viewers. I'd love to see data on Viewers-by-Age, but I suspect the vast majority of viewers for Star Wars Rebels are 16+, ie far too old to need Kaz "comedified" with his antics as he is, and I suspect Disney anticipates an older audience given the IP (side-note: seriously, my god, how do any of you without kids actually make it through an episode each week...?)

This has been a fairly common argument but I don't think it actually works. Much of the programs on these channels is intended to be rerun a lot. The episodes are currently run in two additional time slots, one of them being Saturdays at 7 AM EST. I don't know how much kids watching habits have changed but that was basically prime-time for me as a kid, and since most kids aren't staying up until 10 PM on Sundays (or up at 1 AM on Sundays, the third time-slot), I'm pretty sure the 7 AM slot is the one they expect most kids to watch. I wonder if there's something about the timing of when episodes are sent to the channel that makes the late 10 PM slot make sense but that's just speculation. On top of that, between seasons, I wouldn't be surprised if they continue re-running in the same or different time slots.

I also have to wonder how much viewing habits with kids has changed to on-demand sources. This might be me projecting my own viewing patterns a bit (the only thing I can recall watching live in the last few years is Game of Thrones and hockey games) but I really wouldn't be surprised if there's been a considerable uptick in shows kids want to watch being watched when they aren't normally on. With DVR, streaming platforms (some of which are free), etc, seems possible but maybe not significant enough yet.

However, the rest of your points were totally valid. Kaz is the worst part of a good show, and that's a problem as he's the lead.