37 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:If you're playing an L5R roleplaying game, I'd expect combat to be fairly minimal. If your sessions are 85% plot and politics, what do you even need minis for?
Depends on your campaign though. If I'm playing a Magistrates on the hunt for Ronin and Bandits, or a Crab clan defending the wall horror style campaign than combat may feature more heavily.
I know I said it much earlier in this thread but i still think a descent style game is the way to go. Gives excellent proxy role playing figures options and doesn't require a significant number of figures to be done for start up. You would likely need 7 characters in the core box to cover the clans and a small number of opponent figures that can be generic samurai/ronin (say 3-4 of each) with bows, swords and spears, some shadowlands beasties and say some a few Ninja for the base set). Expansions can add additional characters and flush out different clans (so a Lion set where you get 2 PC/Opponent models for a Kitsu Shugenja and an Ikoma Scout to go with say some Matsu House guard or a Dragon set that Includes an Agasha Alchemist, a Mirumoto Swordsman and the Mirumoto House Guard or Tattooed Monks) to slowly build up a figure pool. Eventually you ramp that up to a full skirmish style rules set once their is a bit more of a character pool to draw from. You can even ramp that up to a full tactical game if you wanted (although I personally am against that as I think the market is a little over saturated and not sure how well it would go over at the moment.
The trick will be to set yourself up for success and that means when you do transition to full minis rules having a big enough range of troops available to satisfy players of all the factions you plan to support on release or very soon after (within 6 month you need to have them all ready to go)
I would definitely buy a L5R-themed dungeon crawler.
Really the game just needs to be a very small scale skirmish game: a samurai (I.e. player proxy) and a few small units of other groups. This would solve the problem of a huge miniature line and it wouldn’t necessarily compete with their other lines either.
A descent style game would also be safer than a skirmish because theres already a skimirdh game set in a fantasy asian setting. Bushido i think its called? So that niche is basically already covered
3 hours ago, RafaelNN said:A descent style game would also be safer than a skirmish because theres already a skimirdh game set in a fantasy asian setting. Bushido i think its called? So that niche is basically already covered
Warhammer Fantasy has a fantasy miniatures game, but FFG still released Runewars.
The skirmish game for Imperial Assault is surprisingly good. (It was at least.) There might be value in a dual Campaign & Skirmish game styled after Imperial Assault.
I agree. Start with a release as a skirmish game, with room to turn into a skirmish.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't Imp *** and Legion use uncoloured miniatures? That would enable generic Bushi and Ashigaru to start.
Maybe start with 7 characters: a Lion Samurai, a Dragon Monk, a Phoenix Shugenja, a Crane Courtier, a Scorpion Shinobi, a Unicorn scout or something, and a Crab Berserker. Add a few generic troops, and expand from there.
Or just go straight to a skrimish game and release the factions piecemeal.
55 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:I agree. Start with a release as a skirmish game, with room to turn into a skirmish.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't Imp *** and Legion use uncoloured miniatures? That would enable generic Bushi and Ashigaru to start.Maybe start with 7 characters: a Lion Samurai, a Dragon Monk, a Phoenix Shugenja, a Crane Courtier, a Scorpion Shinobi, a Unicorn scout or something, and a Crab Berserker. Add a few generic troops, and expand from there.
Or just go straight to a skrimish game and release the factions piecemeal.
You can actually adapt the Imperial Assault skirmish rules just need to make sure you have enough models in the set to split between two forces. They used a different process for each game for the models, IA is more like board game plastics where as Legion is a resin/plastic
54 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:I agree. Start with a release as a skirmish game, with room to turn into a skirmish.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't Imp *** and Legion use uncoloured miniatures? That would enable generic Bushi and Ashigaru to start.Maybe start with 7 characters: a Lion Samurai, a Dragon Monk, a Phoenix Shugenja, a Crane Courtier, a Scorpion Shinobi, a Unicorn scout or something, and a Crab Berserker. Add a few generic troops, and expand from there.
Or just go straight to a skrimish game and release the factions piecemeal.
Starting out, it's usually two factions that are supported. In the case of L5R, you'd simply base it on some sort of regional conflict. It would basically include everything you'd expect in a starter product: some leader dudes and some units of generic guys to form a basis of an army.
For factions, depending on the rule system, I'd rather see a clan pack include four different characters that each represented different strategies for a player but also to appeal to a wider amount of players in that clan. This would also help to limited the number of kits needed to be released per faction.
All of this is completely dependent on scale, rule system, pricing model, and so on.
6 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:You can actually adapt the Imperial Assault skirmish rules just need to make sure you have enough models in the set to split between two forces. They used a different process for each game for the models, IA is more like board game plastics where as Legion is a resin/plastic
Actually, I think the Saga rules by Gripping Beast are perfect for a skirmish scale game and actually fits well with some of the themes. Warlord Games also put out a Samurai game not too long ago and is worth taking a look at for potential models.
Assuming a starter set for a skirmish game , what would be the obvious pair?;
Crane/Kakita v Dragon Mirramoto?
Crane / Kakita v Lion /Matsu ?
Crab v Shadowlands Gobbos at the wall ?
"Historical" Lion v Unicorn for HMT ?
Murray
17 minutes ago, Kubernes said:Starting out, it's usually two factions that are supported. In the case of L5R, you'd simply base it on some sort of regional conflict. It would basically include everything you'd expect in a starter product: some leader dudes and some units of generic guys to form a basis of an army.
For factions, depending on the rule system, I'd rather see a clan pack include four different characters that each represented different strategies for a player but also to appeal to a wider amount of players in that clan. This would also help to limited the number of kits needed to be released per faction.
All of this is completely dependent on scale, rule system, pricing model, and so on.
Actually, I think the Saga rules by Gripping Beast are perfect for a skirmish scale game and actually fits well with some of the themes. Warlord Games also put out a Samurai game not too long ago and is worth taking a look at for potential models.
The only issue there is I'm not sure FFG wants to support someone else's game system when they could develop one of their own.
Personally, I'm not getting into another scale miniatures game – Warhammer/Legion – I like the skirmish of ImpAss as they don't require moving restrictions and terrain. I like the rules they've developed over the 2 iterations of Descent and then ImpAss.
As for other existing samurai games, the distinct difference between them and L5R is magic. And monsters. The 2Ms are pretty significant. I'm not into too many games that recreate historical conflicts, so an L5R minis game holds a lot more interest for me than existing bushi games.
8 hours ago, Schmoozies said:The only issue there is I'm not sure FFG wants to support someone else's game system when they could develop one of their own.
You might be misunderstanding. The post is just showing that people can use various rules and/or for substitution until ffg decides to make the game. Or possibly if people don’t like the game when they release it. Options, options, options.
On my side, I would prefer a skirmish game which could possibly turn into a full wargame one.
Dungeon crawling wouldn't not interest me at all. I've seen what this could give in RPG with the Tomb of Iuchiban box and don't want anything similar, either in RPG or miniature game. While skirmish would fit nicely most of the encounters samurai can have.
1 hour ago, Utaku Ryukko said:On my side, I would prefer a skirmish game which could possibly turn into a full wargame one.
Dungeon crawling wouldn't not interest me at all. I've seen what this could give in RPG with the Tomb of Iuchiban box and don't want anything similar, either in RPG or miniature game. While skirmish would fit nicely most of the encounters samurai can have.
And I think that's where the Imperial Assault model with its hybrid Dungeon Crawl/mapped Skirmish play may be a good fit
I also like the notion of troops, but few named heroes. It allows for a more narrative feel. It also lends itself to the source material - the named characters are such a small amount of the actual armies that mobilize.
I more like the idea of small retinues and heroes, not on the full scale of Legion, but the nimble size of tiny squads that ImpAss employs.
I am also, somewhat reluctantly, thinking that Warmachine/Hordes might actually be a good simile for that squad based combat. I'd prefer it on a 3'x3' rather than a 4'x4' to keep it in-line with other FFG miniature games (X-Wing).
3 minutes ago, Duciris said:I also like the notion of troops, but few named heroes. It allows for a more narrative feel. It also lends itself to the source material - the named characters are such a small amount of the actual armies that mobilize.
I more like the idea of small retinues and heroes, not on the full scale of Legion, but the nimble size of tiny squads that ImpAss employs.
I am also, somewhat reluctantly, thinking that Warmachine/Hordes might actually be a good simile for that squad based combat. I'd prefer it on a 3'x3' rather than a 4'x4' to keep it in-line with other FFG miniature games (X-Wing).
I'm just not sure I trust the current PP team with the rules, given what we've seen for the latest edition of WarmaHordes. i need to look a little more closely at their Company of Iron rules as they may be a better fit.
40 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:I'm just not sure I trust the current PP team with the rules, given what we've seen for the latest edition of WarmaHordes. i need to look a little more closely at their Company of Iron rules as they may be a better fit.
I admittedly have not played HorMachines since Mk.II.
24 minutes ago, Duciris said:I admittedly have not played HorMachines since Mk.II.
I'm in a similar boat but I do know that the majority of the locals dropped it with the latest edition due to alleged balance issues.
Just now, Schmoozies said:I'm in a similar boat but I do know that the majority of the locals dropped it with the latest edition due to alleged balance issues.
That's a shame. When I played, the balance was inspiring.
Thats why there are plenty of games out there for ffg to take inspiration from. Both warhammer and 40k alone have 8 different editions each. Heck, I just played a game of Rogue Trader a few weeks ago.
People develop way too much tunnel vision when it comes to miniatures and rule sets.
Edited by Kubernes13 minutes ago, Kubernes said:Thats why there are plenty of games out there for ffg to take inspiration from. Both warhammer and 40k alone have 8 different editions each. Heck, I just played a game of Rogue Trader a few weeks ago.
People develop way too much tunnel vision when it comes to miniatures and rule sets.
The issue is find the rules that you like and then more importantly a group that agrees and want to play the same rule set. I still have 3 armies for AEG's old Clan Wars game and can I find anyone to play it with except my one buddy who hung onto his Unicorn army, nope.
5 hours ago, Schmoozies said:The issue is find the rules that you like and then more importantly a group that agrees and want to play the same rule set. I still have 3 armies for AEG's old Clan Wars game and can I find anyone to play it with except my one buddy who hung onto his Unicorn army, nope.
More than one army sounds like you simply let another player use one of them? Go find a relatively easy rule set to lure new players or existing players in. You could even try to streamline the old ruleset so you can teach a new player.
You could easily use those miniatures for other games too, just like I've been talking about. Hail Ceasar, Kings of War Historical (includes fantasy elements!), various Osprey rulesets, Warhammer Historical, Saga, Sword & Spear (fantasy book out there now too!), etc. The list goes on. There are rules for pretty much every game mechanic itch.
Sure, this could take some effort or force you to try and interact at the local game shop, but it sure beats quitting or complaining!
For those interested orders for the L5R themed mini-crate have now gone live. First Deadline is 5th December with first minis scheduled to ship in January 2019.
Details are here including some previews for upcoming figures:
or you can just go straight to ordering here:
I think it's adorable how they're trying to make Hida Tomato a thing...the "notable" samurai who died the first fiction she was introduced, and has taken up permanent residence in 99% of Crab player binders. ?