2 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Say Vader Crew was generic.

Would 3 Sigma Aces with Juke and Vader be a good squad?

I don't think I want to play that game. Too much automatic damage.
So, yes it would be good. Too good. Not good for the game.

19 minutes ago, jagsba said:

unironic yes?

My numbers have wedge making the cut 14% of the time and SNR vader making it 13% of the time. Wedge tier.

Yep. Vader's a bit more complicated to make out from the numbers, as there's likely a (large) bias towards good players already having him on Whisper, though. There are almost no Vader pilots being used after vader crew whisper was "discovered".

Actually Vader's overall rate of cute is something hilarious like 7.5 or 8 - I don't have the numbers at the moment. Garven Dreis tier.

9 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Yep. Vader's a bit more complicated to make out from the numbers, as there's likely a (large) bias towards good players already having him on Whisper, though. There are almost no Vader pilots being used after vader crew whisper was "discovered".

Actually Vader's overall rate of cute is something hilarious like 7.5 or 8 - I don't have the numbers at the moment. Garven Dreis tier.

I have vader split between SNR vader and non-snr vader (which has never made a cut). aggregate vader is at 6.9% with nordics, thane is 6.6%

EDIT: you said garven not thane. garven in an x-wing is 7.7. pretty similar.

48 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Actually Vader's overall rate of cute is something hilarious like 7.5 or 8

I mean with all the burn scars that's pretty good...

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

Vader's overall rate of cute is something hilarious like 7.5 or 8

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Hah, I just came here to ask almost the same question!

My question is: If an imperial list does not have Whisper but another ace, is it wrong? Or in a different way: is Whisper the imperial QD in as much that a list without it is most likely just wrong?

Imperials in extended have an embarrassment of riches, as good as whisper is, things like Vader, defenders, punishers Sloane swarms and barrage bombers can all be pushed to great results and I'm sure I'm forgetting things.

4 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Imperials in extended have an embarrassment of riches, as good as whisper is, things like Vader, defenders, punishers Sloane swarms and barrage bombers can all be pushed to great results and I'm sure I'm forgetting things.

Extended is a stupid format, and I don’t think benchmarking on who has what in extended is useful for the health of the game.

Rephrased: I don’t care which factions have which moxes - I never wanted to play legacy to begin with.

20 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Extended is a stupid format, and I don’t think benchmarking on who has what in extended is useful for the health of the game.

I will be very happy to see what Hyperspace is going to include.

Excluding Coruscant, only one Vader pilot made the cut in the 4 major tournament we got reported so far, but I couldn't be bothered to check his actual conversion rate (which I assume is pretty bad thought, but that's just an assumption)

Far worse than Wedge tier, he as many top appearence as Foslo.

As a crew he's way more present thought.

This obviously doesn't mean Vader is bad, just that so far he's overshadowed by other options. Rexler Brat for example is in a similar spot

fun fact. Soontir and wedge perform about the same by raw conversion numbers.

37 minutes ago, jagsba said:

fun fact. Soontir and wedge perform about the same by raw conversion numbers.

If we don't consider Coruscant it's even slightly better than Wedge: Soontir at 15% and Wedge at 13%

Obviously it's just taking into account only 3 tournaments with 1 (Crossroad) with no Wedge in top and another one (nordics) with no Soontir.

EDIT: Luke is at 10% for with almost the same appearence than Soontir (60vs61)
EDIT 2: and Boba is at 49 appearence and 32,5% conversion rate...

EDIT 3: I lied, I counted Vader in the end: he was played 31 times with an outstanding 3% conversion rate. As a crew he had far better success

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

Rephrased: I don’t care which factions have which moxes - I never wanted to play legacy to begin with.

To be fair, the question was is this legacy only ship the one I must take. I too don't much care for extended

Just now, catachanninja said:

To be fair, the question was is this legacy only ship the one I must take. I too don't much care for extended

To follow up on that, I'm unbelievablely stoked about the second Ed format, every time I build for it, every time I play it, there's nothing oprresive, very little opportunity to get beat at list building. Every game feels like it's largely decided on the table.

17 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

To follow up on that, I'm unbelievablely stoked about the second Ed format, every time I build for it, every time I play it, there's nothing oprresive, very little opportunity to get beat at list building. Every game feels like it's largely decided on the table.

I can't get anyone here to care about it. No one. I gave up.

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

I can't get anyone here to care about it. No one. I gave up.

Extended with all its flaws still seems pretty freaking amazing every time I play.

All that said I want Hyperspace to be as close to 2e format as possible and ideally even more aggressively restrictive since a good # of the "1.0 ish" cards exist in both formats.

A lot of players hate 2e format though. If and when FFG makes active use of that ban list reddit is going to be on fire.

Honestly, it looks like 2e won't be viable as a format for at least a year. 2e in the meantime looks like a never ending parade of Fenn Boba Lando.

The problems with extended at present are minor.

2e format right now is pretty garbage tbh. There's not a ton of variety, but that's because there aren't many releases yet. Extended has been a blast so far though. I don't really have anything to complain about.

23 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

2e format right now is pretty garbage tbh. There's not a ton of variety, but that's because there aren't many releases yet. Extended has been a blast so far though. I don't really have anything to complain about.

If I hear 2e, It means I will go to my LGS and the lists there will be 50/50 Luke Wedge Norra (maybe norra is Thane if they are bad) and 50% Boba Fenn Lando.

The problems with extended are few in number: you can just go "nerf traj sim/super/han gunner/whatever" rather than burn it all down.

Why are 7 TIEs in 2nd ed bad?

I assume they are because I don't hear anyone talking about it or playing it. Is it an auto loss against Boba?

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Why are 7 TIEs in 2nd ed bad?

I assume they are because I don't hear anyone talking about it or playing it. Is it an auto loss against Boba?

The Boba matchup doesn't help.

But my theory is that most 2e nights/events are seen as 'casual time', and swarms have a reputation for being hard to fly. People don't want to bother dealing with that if they're just chilling at their LGS.

I'd bet you'd see a lot more swarms if 2e was the primary competitive format.

Edit: More swarms than you currently see in 2e games, as a percentage of lists.

What's so bad about extended that supposedly 2e format makes better?

I think there is a lot of stuff in extended that actively suppresses some other elements. Super/hyper action efficient high initiative ordnance platforms like Redline, massive token denial combos like Juke/Vader Whisper, Trajectory simulator in general, and then again with added Nym ability...

Each of those things makes whole swathes of list archetypes invalid.

I flew Howl swarm for the first 2 weeks of 2nd edition, and then came up against traj sim after traj sim to the point where I was just made sad and packed them away ... I've been trying desperately to make rebels work ever since, and while I feel like I have more of a chance, the games are 80:20 and rely entirely on my own execution, or lack thereof.

So many of the powerful platforms (particularly Redline) require very little 'skill' to get value from. Clearly better players will leverage them more effectively than average Joes ... but a player trying to make cut at a big event is going to start list building with Redline/Proton bombs, torps and trajectory simulator (or adv sens) and then roll on from there.

15 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

What's so bad about extended

Not actually that much, coming from 1e.

15 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

... that supposedly 2e format makes better?

Fewer ships -> Easier to balance.

Reduced power level ->Easier to balance.

Better balance -> 'Skill' contributes more to the outcome of a game than list building.

I seem to win ~2/3rds of my extended games, but lose ~2/3rds of my 2e games. So in my limited experience, you win in 2e by being better than your opponent, but in extended it's generally good enough to just bring the right stuff.

It will only change the oppressive things to others, with the addition of having way less options to choose from.

Also so far the real oppressive thing seems to be Boba which is unscathed and very present in a 2e format...