Because that gif is never out of place

12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The reason I do not like 2nd ed as much at the moment is the lack of A-wings/Interceptors/Phantoms/E-Wings/TIE Adv v1. You know, the fun easy stuff, depending on your cynicism honesty.

And I mainly mean A-wings. I would immediately bring 5 tomorrow if it was legal, no question asked.

Fangs.

3 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Fangs.

I know, right? I basically never played them, which is ridiculous because they are the interceptors/awings of scum.

There are two reasons:
1., I can't fly 5 in a list.
2. I only own two...

(the third reason is entirely irrational: I just don't like scum too much. It's like Protoss - sure it has its place, but who really wanted it? The interesting showdown is terran/zerg, or rebel/imperial)

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

(the third reason is entirely irrational: I just don't like scum too much. It's like Protoss - sure it has its place, but who really wanted it? The interesting showdown is terran/zerg, or rebel/imperial)

1

Maybe it's a personality thing but I NEVER choose the binary, good/evil factions. I chose Wood Elves in Warhammer because they were more neutral and I picked up X-wing when Scum came out because they finally had an interesting faction. I'm also very excited to see the faction identities become a little more pronounced as the newer factions become available.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I know, right? I basically never played them, which is ridiculous because they are the interceptors/awings of scum.

There are two reasons:
1., I can't fly 5 in a list.
2. I only own two...

(the third reason is entirely irrational: I just don't like scum too much. It's like Protoss - sure it has its place, but who really wanted it? The interesting showdown is terran/zerg, or rebel/imperial)

You should watch the solo movie, really changed my views on the faction

1 minute ago, catachanninja said:

You should watch the solo movie, really changed my views on the faction

I play any faction that has capes.

54 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Actually, my complaint is that I dislike the wide-open format, and think the lists that dominate are more card-game than miniatures game. And it will always tend to that extreme as more cards are allowed.

We can (and should) adjust points. But that doesn't meant I will like extended, philosophically.

I guess I disagree on this point. Ship parity is an ideal that can be pretty easily implemented, and worth doing.

I didn't even play during the original scum introduction, but I member how that went. Hi JMKs! You saved scum!

I guess my counter argument is that the meta will always contract to a percent of the available content. The less content the smaller that eventual point is and the more rapidly that happens as there's less viable permutations to try. Provided there's a mechanism to trim the otherwise unavoidable tall blades of grass the opposite extreme of more content equaling more synergistic content that spirals out of control can at least be kept in check, up to a point

Ship parity is an ideal, and it can be implemented, I just don't think it's worth the cost ie. removing vast swathes of content

I look at the J5k, and the rest of early scum, and my thought is if only we had points adjustments back then it wouldn't have been a problem. Also bots, part of that initial scum rollout, ended up with the last anecdotal laugh in 1.0

39 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

I'm pretty checked out with extended as well. Left 1.0 to see everybody still playing the same game of throwing bombs and easy double modified ordnance. You have sloan lists telling people that they are punished for playing the game, and you have people trying to tell me that redline and death rain aren't just cheaper 1.0 nyms living in a 2.0 world. January cannot come soon enough imo.

I completely agree about Jan I'm just laying the blame at the feet of poor, and hopefully corrected in the future, costing decisions more than the format

38 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

I'm pretty checked out with extended as well. Left 1.0 to see everybody still playing the same game of throwing bombs and easy double modified ordnance. You have sloan lists telling people that they are punished for playing the game, and you have people trying to tell me that redline and death rain aren't just cheaper 1.0 nyms living in a 2.0 world. January cannot come soon enough imo.

@Starslinger72 was trying to convince me earlier that redline is more or less the same thing as nym (you're eating a bomb, or torp, or both) and I was immediately skeptical. After thinking about it more, it seems true or close enough to true that the small amount of counterplay effectively doesn't exist.

21 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The interesting showdown is terran/zerg, or rebel/imperial)

Patrician taste

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

@Starslinger72 was trying to convince me earlier that redline is more or less the same thing as nym (you're eating a bomb, or torp, or both) and I was immediately skeptical. After thinking about it more, it seems true or close enough to true that the small amount of counterplay effectively doesn't exist.

Having played an absolute ton of Redline, I only have these three things:

1: Redline needs probably the most dramatic points increase of any ship, and FFG made a huge mistake making his abiltiy "gain a lock" versus "take a target lock action". The only other thing would have been to make the boost action red.

2: Trajectory Simulator is undercosted.

3: Blocking Redline is the only real counterplay.

All of that being said, Redline is S tier but I don't think breaks the game. Right now it looks like the most consistently good list is Boba/Palob/4-Lom.

13 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Patrician taste 

Was there anything better than NesTea vs MVP (or any combination of NesTea/Leenock/Soulkey/DRG/Rogue/soO/Stephano/Jaedong vs MMA/Mvp/MarineKing/TaeJa/TY/Flash) ?

Don't answer because that question is entirely rhetorical.

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I guess my counter argument is that the meta will always contract to a percent of the available content.

I think only a fool thinks that there can be a meta won't contract.

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

The less content the smaller that eventual point is and the more rapidly that happens as there's less viable permutations to try.

I think that depends on the amount of content. Less content might actually force a larger meta. If you've only got a few ships to work with, you learn how to use the ships that appear garbage.

In 1st edition the shuttle was widely regarded as garbage and unplayable upon release. It took time for stubborn players to bear down and learn how to take advantage of its strengths before it started seeing play. Insert @catachanninja quote about poetry (it rhymes).

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Provided there's a mechanism to trim the otherwise unavoidable tall blades of grass the opposite extreme of more content equaling more synergistic content that spirals out of control can at least be kept in check, up to a point

I think I agree with Travis here. I don't really care that the synergies can be kept in check. I'm sure to some extent they can. The fact that you have all the synergy options means that the meta game is about building the 'better deck' to beat your opponent. Not outflying them.

I want to play space chess (a game with a decidedly tiny array of list building options), not space magic TCG.

7 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

3: Blocking Redline is the only real counterplay.

good thing he can't take a card that lets him take an action before moving but doesn't hurt his action economy.

2 hours ago, catachanninja said:

Between this thread and talking to people in person, I'm pretty sure most of the anti 2e people are just imperial glue eaters who don't want thier trajectory sims, phantoms, and Sloane's taken away.

I only own an Imperial conversion kit so far, so I'm definitely in this glue eating camp to a degree, though I think 2nd Ed format is what it would take for me to actually try out a TIE swarm given the local Extended meta. So I'm not *opposed* to 2nd Ed format, I'm just less interested in it since I'd really only want to fly either a full TIE swarm or Vader + mini swarm in that format and that would get samey fast. I am definitely on-board for a more limited format than Extended though - the amount of action stacking and reactive repositioning that I can fit into an Extended Imperial list makes me feel dirty. I'd be super happy with just the Imperial ships that show up in the OT films to be the set for Hyperspace.

5 minutes ago, jagsba said:

good thing he can't take a card that lets him take an action before moving but doesn't hurt his action economy.

Yes, at the loss of Trajectory Simulator. This is also part of why I said it was a mistake making it not "take a target lock action"

48 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I know, right? I basically never played them, which is ridiculous because they are the interceptors/awings of scum.

There are two reasons:
1., I can't fly 5 in a list.
2. I only own two...

(the third reason is entirely irrational: I just don't like scum too much. It's like Protoss - sure it has its place, but who really wanted it? The interesting showdown is terran/zerg, or rebel/imperial)

you don't need to fly 5 in a list, just pretend you skipped to the part where your squint/A got 1 shot.

3 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Yes, at the loss of Trajectory Simulator. This is also part of why I said it was a mistake making it not "take a target lock action"

It just changes the game from "you're eating a bomb, or torp, or both" to "you're eating a torp."

5 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I think only a fool thinks that there can be a meta won't contract

Good thing I never said the meta won't contract and the central point of my argument was that it most certainly will contract...?

6 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I think that depends on the amount of content. Less content might actually force a larger meta. If you've only got a few ships to work with, you learn how to use the ships that appear garbage. In 1st edition the shuttle was widely regarded as garbage and unplayable upon release. It took time for stubborn players to bear down and learn how to take advantage of its strengths before it started seeing play

I don't believe you. Less ships might speed up the rate at which hidden gems are discovered but it still has to be a gem to begin with, ships that are in actuality garbage will remain garbage. As far as the shuttle... Palp. It saw some meager play otherwise but never really had a major impact outside making your free evade cost 21 points more

12 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I want to play space chess (a game with a decidedly tiny array of list building options), not space magic TCG.

And I want to play a combination of both, neither extreme. Guess we'll just have to disagree

redline is pure evil, but easier to play around than Nym was in 1.0. I do think his cost needs to go up, but it's not game breaking like some of the 1.0 stuff was.

https://www.strawpoll.me/16764648

I wonder how widely opinions on the concept of Hyperspace format hinge upon differences in this assumption.

4 minutes ago, svelok said:

https://www.strawpoll.me/16764648

I wonder how widely opinions on the concept of Hyperspace format hinge upon differences in this assumption.

where's the 8-10 option without dart or film canon bias?

4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

where's the 8-10 option without dart or film canon bias?

Any behind-the-scenes decision process that isn't just based on film canon will be sufficiently indistinguishable from darts

Just now, svelok said:

Any behind-the-scenes decision process that isn't just based on film canon will be sufficiently indistinguishable from darts

I would expect 'biased to new releases' (which is maybe what you meant with film canon, but I wouldn't agree that it is)

10 minutes ago, svelok said:

https://www.strawpoll.me/16764648

I wonder how widely opinions on the concept of Hyperspace format hinge upon differences in this assumption.

I still think it will be a format where the ships with the least buffs or nerfs will show up. We probably won't see Punishers or JM5Ks.

What will be truly interesting for me is whether or not at some point the Hyperspace format will leave out some 2.0 re-released ships once more than 10 have been re-released, keeping the format somewhat limited to the 8-10 ships.

11 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Good thing I never said the meta won't contract and the central point of my argument was that it most certainly will contract...?

yes... i was agreeing that metas will contract. No one is saying that meta's won't contract.

11 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I don't believe you. Less ships might speed up the rate at which hidden gems are discovered but it still has to be a gem to begin with, ships that are in actuality garbage will remain garbage. As far as the shuttle... Palp. It saw some meager play otherwise but never really had a major impact outside making your free evade cost 21 points more

less ships means that they don't have to be gems to be playable. with a big ole' meta, people find the best stuff and use it. Sure people will find the best stuff faster if there's less stuff, but it also means that you might have to take a sub-optimal piece to get the effect you want. If you jam in a scum list right now, you pick a hwk over a G1-a. But if hwks weren't an option is it worth taking the g1a for jam? That's an interesting decision.

11 minutes ago, Makaze said:

And I want to play a combination of both, neither extreme. Guess we'll just have to disagree

fair enough.

36 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I only own an Imperial conversion kit so far, so I'm definitely in this glue eating camp to a degree, though I think 2nd Ed format is what it would take for me to actually try out a TIE swarm given the local Extended meta. So I'm not *opposed* to 2nd Ed format, I'm just less interested in it since I'd really only want to fly either a full TIE swarm or Vader + mini swarm in that format and that would get samey fast. I am definitely on-board for a more limited format than Extended though - the amount of action stacking and reactive repositioning that I can fit into an Extended Imperial list makes me feel dirty. I'd be super happy with just the Imperial ships that show up in the OT films to be the set for Hyperspace.

Reapers are pretty cool and scum gets a new ship with wave 2. I'm guessing rebels and imps will also get them eventually