Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast

By SaltMaster 5000, in X-Wing

25 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Yeah, I was going to say - 1. this was actually a straight unilateral decision from the system opens. 2. There's some wink wink nudge nudge that it came from discussion with FFG, but I don't have any information that that's actually the case.

1. So the TO/Marshal made the call? Wasn't the first Systems Open marshaled by Haim? I remember an interview with him on the old Mynock Podcast last Nov (iirc) where he put forward that he was going to rule the End Phase + Ability Queue that way because of Baffle Quick Draw.

2. That doesn't imply anything good about the integrity of X-Wing's tournament system. Allot of really easily abused trust implied there.

35 minutes ago, Brunas said:

That's what I mean though, that ruling wasn't new then. It wasn't even "in" the unofficial rulings - it was just "also here's the stuff from the system open". Now that I think about it, I've never looked through the final/public "unofficial" rulings, so maybe it was just copy/pasted from the system open stuff?

It's been there since the first public release by the CRC and is there currently: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSNaoKAThwjDhjjixO7u-MZZ3l5xu-LgKnRohhTIkYk/mobilebasic

END PHASE TIMING SEQUENCE

  1. Abilities with the timing of “at the start of the end phase” (ability queue forms)
  2. Abilities with the timing of “during the end phase” (ability queue forms)
  3. Circular tokens are removed from all ships
  4. Each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge

Example 1: Player one is flying 4-LOM. Player two is flying Quickdraw equipped with Juke and Electronic Baffle. The two ships are within range 0-1 of each other.

At the start of the end phase, 4-LOM may choose to transfer one of his stress tokens to Quickdraw.

Then, during the end phase, Quickdraw may choose to use Electronic Baffle to suffer a damage to remove the red stress token which was just transferred to her. If doing so causes Quickdraw to lose a shield, she may then use her pilot ability to spend a charge to perform a bonus primary attack (if she has not already performed a bonus attack this round). If Quickdraw is evading, she may use Juke to change one of the defender’s [evade] results to a [focus] result.

After Quickdraw’s attack is complete, players remove all remaining circular tokens from their ships, then each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge.

Example 2: Player one and player two are both flying Lieutenant Tavson, and they are both equipped with Electronic Baffle.

There are no abilities which take place “at the start of the end phase”.

Since both players have abilities which trigger from the same event (“during the end phase”), an ability queue forms and abilities are added to the queue in player order. Player one was assigned a lock from another ship earlier in the round, and chooses to use Electronic Baffle to suffer a damage to remove the red lock token. Player one then uses Tavson’s pilot ability to spend a charge to perform an action. Once player one has completed all abilities added to the ability queue by that player, it is player two’s turn to add abilities to the queue. Player two has a stress token assigned from an earlier red maneuver, and chooses to use Electronic Baffle to suffer a damage to remove the red stress token. Player two then uses Tavson’s pilot ability to spend a charge to perform an action.

After both players have resolved all abilities which take place “during the end phase”, players remove all remaining circular tokens, then each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

1. So the TO/Marshal made the call? Wasn't the first Systems Open marshaled by Haim? I remember an interview with him on the old Mynock Podcast last Nov (iirc) where he put forward that he was going to rule the End Phase + Ability Queue that way because of Baffle Quick Draw.

2. That doesn't imply anything good about the integrity of X-Wing's tournament system. Allot of really easily abused trust implied there.

It's been there since the first public release by the CRC and is there currently: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSNaoKAThwjDhjjixO7u-MZZ3l5xu-LgKnRohhTIkYk/mobilebasic

Yep, that's a marshall decision. I don't mean to put Iain under the bus or anything - I think it was a very good decision, probably the best possible way to handle that.

I'm not sure what you mean by abused trust. These are all official FFG events, with members of the OP team there. It's not like rogue actors doing crazy things.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Yep, that's a marshall decision. 1. I don't mean to put Iain under the bus or anything - I think it was a very good decision, probably the best possible way to handle that.

I'm not sure what you mean by 2. abused trust. These are all official FFG events, with members of the OP team there. It's not like rogue actors doing crazy things.

1. You didn't, and I'm not. I don't agree with the decision because it diverges from what the rules say and in effect creates another variant of the game.

2. "There's some wink wink nudge nudge that it came from discussion with FFG, but I don't have any information that that's actually the case." This implies that there was no actual confirmation of FFG signing off on/supporting/being aware of the decision ahead of time and that the person who'd said they'd, FFG, been talked to was trusted out of hand. Whether or not the trust given was actually abused, this is a big weakness in the integrity of the system. One person can change something, go "Oh yah, they know and agree." and no one present double checks. It is ripe for abuse. Time will tell if it ever is or was.

That the ruling also nerfed FO probably didn't help with perceptions about their power level over the last year or so.

5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

That the ruling also nerfed FO probably didn't help with perceptions about their power level over the last year or so.

With all the various shiny toys distracting people every wave, it's mainly just us hipsters, edgelords, and hipster edgelords who appreciate the value and challenge of FO. All the same, more dial covers/alt art for us!

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread
38 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

With all the various shiny toys distracting people every wave, it's mainly just us hipsters, edgelords, and hipster edgelords who appreciate the value and challenge of FO. All the same, more dial covers/alt art for us!

That's what I was thinking but FO was the second most popular faction @ our recent Grands...

12 minutes ago, Deffly said:

That's what I was thinking but FO was the second most popular faction @ our recent Grands...

Tells you something about the local community. 😁

Our local recent Grands had mostly a mix of Republic, Scum, Empire, Rebels, with the odd separatist, resistance and FO list sprinkled in. (A resistance list with L'ulo and 4 logistics couches made top 4). Republic beat Rebels in the final. FO didn't make the cut(which was top 16).

My take on the last couple of pages is ffg should raise Tavson cost again and free us from this madness

24 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

My take on the last couple of pages is ffg should raise Tavson cost again and free us from this madness

Only if they drop the points of the others

I’d like non-Kylo silencers to drop a bit. I half expect Vonreg to come in at 61, that way you can’t fit Kylo Tavson Vonreg.

5 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

My take on the last couple of pages is ffg should raise Tavson cost again and free us from this madness

The best way to do rules clarifications is guarantee they can't come up. Mod slot removed for Tavson/Quickdraw EZ

44 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I’d like non-Kylo silencers to drop a bit. I half expect Vonreg to come in at 61, that way you can’t fit Kylo Tavson Vonreg.

Except FOTP

8 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Except FOTP

Especially FOTP?

Like, FCS Gunner Quickdraw is still cheaper than FOTP. Wat?!

Edited by PaulRuddSays
1 hour ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I half expect Vonreg to come in at 61, that way you can’t fit Kylo Tavson Vonreg.

My hope is that Vonreg is expensive enough that Trip i5+ or 2x Ace + Bruiser isnt the defacto best FO archetype. Possible but not able to bid at all or upgrade itself is what I want to see. Ideally when the Vonreg releases the Jan point adjustment will have increased the cost of a bunch of high bid/high upgrade Trip Ace and Double Ace lists in Jedi/Republic and prevented the same from being available in other factions including FO. If you can fit Kylo + Vonreg in a list the 3rd ace should ideally have to be 1 filler "ace" at a max of i4 to get a real bid(>3) or zero upgrades near 199-200 pts for an i5.

Basically 665 or 655 or 666 lists should be built assuming they count to 200 pts or more without upgrades and 200+ pts with upgrades. Rare exceptions for immobile things like Midnight maybe. 555 Lists subject to the same based on what the i5s are capable of doing since theres such an insane variety of those.

This is kind of how FO is right now and it seems correct.
Kylo QD Blackout is a good example, can get more toys by downgrading Blackout to Midnight who isnt an actual ace.
The power level of current FO Trip "Ace" lists is probably what it should look like across factions.
Makes it an actual choice to start mixing in mid/low init things to get a more flexible squad.

200 Pt Kylo + Quickdraw + Blackout

Kylo Ren — TIE/vn Silencer 76
Ship Total: 76
Half Points: 38 Threshold: 3
“Blackout” — TIE/vn Silencer 63
Fanatical 2
Ship Total: 65
Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3
“Quickdraw” — TIE/SF Fighter 45
Fanatical 2
Special Forces Gunner 10
Fire-Control System 2
Ship Total: 59
Half Points: 30 Threshold: 3
Edited by Boom Owl

If I can Super Kylo, Composure Vonreg, and naked Rivas with an 8 pts bid, I'm happy. Anything else (optics, the new cards, etc.) is gravy.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread
12 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

If I can Super Kylo, Composure Vonreg, and naked Rivas with an 8 pts bid, I'm happy. Anything else (optics, the new cards, etc.) is gravy.

Puts Vonreg at 64 pts. Which would allow Fanatical/FCS QD + Kylo + Composure Vonreg at 200 pts.
Thats probably a couple more pts of room that it should have because Kylo is 1 or 2 pts cheap at 76.
And/Or Composure at 1 pts is 100% wrong and 64 isnt correct for i6 focus/lock redterceptor.

Edited by Boom Owl
1 hour ago, Brunas said:

The best way to do rules clarifications is guarantee they can't come up.

I just discovered that Manaroo can't take Angled Deflectors! weh :'(

7 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Super Kylo, Composure Vonreg, and naked Rivas with an 8 pts bid

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Which would allow Fanatical/FCS QD + Kylo + Composure Vonreg

every day I dread wave 7 more, thanks

12 minutes ago, svelok said:

every day I dread wave 7 more, thanks

If they address Composure and stick to the Mandatory Count to 200+ for Trip Ace Glue rule it should be fine.
Kylo/QD/Vonreg with just Fanatical/Gunner on QD at exactly 200 seems "ok".
Dunno what other dumb things that would open up though with things like Midnight, QD, Vonreg, Null or SF or Scorch etc.
Its possible Kylo QD Vonreg just shouldnt fit at all.

Edited by Boom Owl
20 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

If they address Composure Snap needs to go down in points.

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Probably?
We all know Snap is the i4 hero of this story.

42 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Probably?
We all know Snap is the i4 hero of this story.

Unironically a character from the movies

2 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Unironically a character from the movies

And caricature from the books

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

And caricature from the books

Roger Roger master janson

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

If they address Composure and stick to the Mandatory Count to 200+ for Trip Ace Glue rule it should be fine.
Kylo/QD/Vonreg with just Fanatical/Gunner on QD at exactly 200 seems "ok".
Dunno what other dumb things that would open up though with things like Midnight, QD, Vonreg, Null or SF or Scorch etc.
Its possible Kylo QD Vonreg just shouldnt fit at all.

Given other I6 prices, I think it’s pretty likely that Kylo, gunner Quickdraw, and Vonreg fits, otherwise Vonreg (69 points) starts to comp against Poe (68 points) in pricing despite having almost half the health and a less useful ability. That would price him like Fenn (also 68), but without Concordia, and with a ship ability that could leave him vulnerable or hitting like a limp noodle if he does want to double action.

Edit: Vonreg at R1 with focus lock has the same average offense as Fenn R1 with focus only, but Fenn is probably a lot happier to tank that return shot if he can’t score a kill, because he has 3 agi plus Concordia. Vonreg in the same boat is only rolling 2 greens.

Edited by PaulRuddSays