I wonder why. You can still fit Braylen, Ten, Cassian, and a blue squadron in a list.

(51) Braylen Stramm [A/SF-01 B-wing]

(48) Ten Numb [A/SF-01 B-wing]

(51) Cassian Andor [UT-60D U-wing]
(0) Pivot Wing
(6) Leia Organa

(41) Blue Squadron Escort [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils

Total: 197

You could put Swarm Tactics on Ten so you have three ships at I4 if you really want it.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

She loves R1 and is super hard to shake once there, where Sense is free. Getting her into range safely might require not spending for Sense beyond that, so priority is pretty much the other way round for me.

Still, I love SNR on her, which really shuts her ability opportunities down, so....

It all needs some planning and management, which is a good thing, because it's all pretty great.

Unrelated. Went to an Extended store tourney yesterday, with new points. Lists were all over the place. There were 2 B Wings and 1 U spread across 3 out of 18 squads. It was awesome.

For my extended kit tourney there were adaptations of last meta's stuff (Rebel Beef, Maul and droids, FO salad, Kylo 2U, and Jess and friends), a few other things, and Dengar. 2 Dengars at 2-2 (1 dropped due to time constraints) and 1 at 1-3. There was also a 2I5 Jedi + Ric, and that N1 model is sexy.

Should agile gunner get an emergency pt. decrease? A sub I6 ace getting behind and chasing Dengar is laughably feasible and wrong. Yeah, you could put it on him as is, but Dengar can get out-jousted easily, either because he's thin and doesn't have the mods, or fat and going to bleed points because he has those mods. Heck, once his shields go, there's little reason for a force user or a full throttle thingy to fear the revenge shot on his turnaround turns.

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

So Tie Swarm.

Best Hyperspace List?

Yes or No?

Yes

1 hour ago, AceWing said:

I wonder why. You can still fit Braylen, Ten, Cassian, and a blue squadron in a list.

(51) Braylen Stramm [A/SF-01 B-wing]

(48) Ten Numb [A/SF-01 B-wing]

(51) Cassian Andor [UT-60D U-wing]
(0) Pivot Wing
(6) Leia Organa

(41) Blue Squadron Escort [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils

Total: 197

You could put Swarm Tactics on Ten so you have three ships at I4 if you really want it.

Shhh.... Rebel beef got nerfed right? Absolutely unplayable now. This is obviously a bad list, so nobody needs to try it.

6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Yes

Counterpoint:

“each ship at range 0-1 of the defender with agility equal to or less than the defender's rolls 1 attack die and suffers 1 [hit] / [crit] damage for each matching result.”

(actually despite looking lackluster on paper diamond borons might do ok against TIE swarms, I just know that the Krayt thread has a reputation of childishness to uphold and if I had a more polite response it would be detrimental to our image amongst the X-Wing community)

7 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Counterpoint:

“each ship at range 0-1 of the defender with agility equal to or less than the defender's rolls 1 attack die and suffers 1 [hit] / [crit] damage for each matching result.”

If you're going to bring diamond boron missiles JUST because tie swarm exists (I argue that rebel beef variants likely don't care, and most other lists aren't formation), then have at it.

I'm sure it's worth shoving a double-missile slot ship, and the narrow missile (spoiler, TIE's have 3 agility - you do need to hit). I suspect you're literally better off with a bomb?

In hyperspace at least, the carriers are what? Hyeneas and resistance bombers... and that's it?

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

If you're going to bring diamond boron missiles JUST because tie swarm exists (I argue that rebel beef variants likely don't care, and most other lists aren't formation), then have at it.

I'm sure it's worth shoving a double-missile slot ship, and the narrow missile (spoiler, TIE's have 3 agility - you do need to hit). I suspect you're literally better off with a bomb?

In hyperspace at least, the carriers are what? Hyeneas and resistance bombers... and that's it?

Fire the double mod missile, Dooku the blank on their defense. Now it auto-hit, and even if Iden erases the damage, the card will trigger its explosion.

Also, Hyenas can tragedy sim at a fraction of the resistance bomber cost.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

n hyperspace at least, the carriers are what? Hyeneas and resistance TIE/sa bombers... and that's it?

Resistance Bombers don't have a missile slot much less the 2 required for DBM (a massive flaw with the design lore wise in my opinion, missile or torp mags as an optional replacement to the bomb mag would have been a major improvement to the design). In Extended the list expands to include Punishers, Os-1s and K-Wings iirc.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Resistance Bombers don't have a missile slot much less the 2 required for DBM (a massive flaw with the design lore wise in my opinion, missile or torp mags as an optional replacement to the bomb mag would have been a major improvement to the design). In Extended the list expands to include Punishers, Os-1s and K-Wings iirc.

I know it expands in extended. I even forgot TIE bombers were in hyperspace

If you want to bring bombers or hyena's in hyperspace... I mean, please do. I welcome it. (not directed at hiemfire).

9 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

If you're going to bring diamond boron missiles JUST because tie swarm exists (I argue that rebel beef variants likely don't care, and most other lists aren't formation), then have at it.

So many players fly in formations when they don't need to that it seems like you could get good mileage out of it regardless of whether it *should* technically good - either punishing them for using block formations when they don't need to or pushing them outside their comfort zone where they may make positional mistakes?

1 minute ago, Transmogrifier said:

So many players fly in formations when they don't need to that it seems like you could get good mileage out of it regardless of whether it *should* technically good - either punishing them for using block formations when they don't need to or pushing them outside their comfort zone where they may make positional mistakes?

God, if diamond boron missiles finally stop unnecessary formations, I'm super in.

the basic upside of DBM is they cost the same, roll the same number of dice, and have the same number of charges as concussion missiles - only the effect is different, so in any matchup/situation where you don't get mileage from the splash effect, you basically just have concussion missiles instead

the basic downside of DBM is to ask yourself how often you actually want to bring concussion missiles in a list

1 minute ago, svelok said:

the basic downside of DBM is to ask yourself how often you actually want to bring concussion missiles in a list

There it is.

Faan langelan won with 4Ks the Madrid system open, the last one to be played with old points.

Sadly I couldn't make past top 16 this time...

It's interesting to note that in the last 2 European sos, Italy and Spain, 4 phantoms weren't neither particularly present (in Madrid I think there were about 2 or 3 overall, with only one making the top losing to the champion) nor particularly successful (in Italy there were many more but no one made the cut)

5 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Faan langelan won with 4Ks the Madrid system open, the last one to be played with old points.

Sadly I couldn't make past top 16 this time...

It's interesting to note that in the last 2 European sos, Italy and Spain, 4 phantoms weren't neither particularly present (in Madrid I think there were about 2 or 3 overall, with only one making the top losing to the champion) nor particularly successful (in Italy there were many more but no one made the cut)

It seems more that good players got bored and moved on.

7 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Faan langelan won with 4Ks the Madrid system open, the last one to be played with old points.

Sadly I couldn't make past top 16 this time...

It's interesting to note that in the last 2 European sos, Italy and Spain, 4 phantoms weren't neither particularly present (in Madrid I think there were about 2 or 3 overall, with only one making the top losing to the champion) nor particularly successful (in Italy there were many more but no one made the cut)

Just now, LagJanson said:

It seems more that good players got bored and moved on.

Neat, I guess.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Neat, I guess.

*shrug* Not like I crunch data on the meta. If only someone did...

Just now, LagJanson said:

*shrug* Not like I crunch data on the meta. If only someone did...

Since when as my meta data every convinced someone of a list's strength or weakness? Or Europe and America?

"But what if they just tried harder?"

"They must not have wanted it enough"

"Europeans are built differently. Bigger brains. Broader Shoulders."

Double post

12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Since when as my meta data every convinced someone of a list's strength or weakness? Or Europe and America?

Not so much power levels but trends are interesting. The usage of quad Phantom seems to have been going down for a bit now. True? I don’t know

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

Not so much power levels but trends are interesting. The usage of quad Phantom seems to have been going down for a bit now. True? I don’t know

The general problem is the lack of extended data.

We're inundated with hyperspace data (regionals), but have to try and layer on analysis and extrapolate from a handful of major extended events.

That's the real crux - extended is far more of a guess.

26 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

4 phantoms weren't neither particularly present (in Madrid I think there were about 2 or 3 overall, with only one making the top

there were never that many of them at any event, they just consistently made cut (which aligns with this example, too)

for instance there were only 6 of them at the seattle open but 2/6 made top cut in an event where 16/136 (0.7/6) did overall

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

(actually despite looking lackluster on paper diamond borons might do ok against TIE swarms, I just know that the Krayt thread has a reputation of childishness to uphold and if I had a more polite response it would be detrimental to our image amongst the X-Wing community)

alright, you get ONE wholesome response before I ever refuse to take any comment on diamond boron missiles

DBM is a like 40 point missile that might do half a splash damage once. In hyperspace, the only faction that can play it is empire on bombers, which means you're playing a bomber without barrage rockets. You can also play it on a Baktoid Prototype, which would be cool but even if the expected damage on that missile is good (it isn't) there's a 0% chance that baktoid prototype gets to fire it. Unless you're also bringing swarm tactics grievous, neato.