1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Guys, Ember is not a hill for me. Do what you want man

No, you asked a question and must be punished.

Fine, I'll make a hill

1 hour ago, catachanninja said:

First Order

• Kylo Holo + 2
• Vonreg Holo + 3
• Kylo + 4
• Holo/Vonreg + 5

1 hour ago, catachanninja said:

In terms of raw fun, these are what id be playing if i weren't so afraid of the vs boba matchup on paper

5 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

simple, get boba to forget slave 1 and his repo actions, and also maul and his pilot ability, and also reinforce. Once you've done that, you're free to put damage into him

As opposed to what?

e: Like, if we're comparing Ember within FO squads then you run apparently into the same problem. So, why the snark?

4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Guys, Ember is not a hill for me. Do what you want man

Oh, I wasn't trying to start a fight, reading back it comes off like that. I don't know if there's some crazy mega bid kylo you've worked out over there!

I don't have anything worked out. No, I just think Ember brings the useful part of Midnight to the table.

Because the defensive part is a cute bonus for the early/mid game, and extremely strong late game, if late game is a 1v1. But 2.0 and hyperspace does not really get there, does it? So her strong part is irrelevant.

The offensive part of her ability is largely irrelevant because she spends her action for it. Ember, on the other hand, gets a double modified 3 dice attack ON TOP of midnights ability - or at least against most opponents.

Of course not against Boba, because Boba is 1.0 levels degenerate (passive double mods and activation timing dial change?!). But that's not entirely fair to judge an ability.

I have only played one hyper list so far that my immediate reaction was “this is bad, not ironic quotes bad, actual bad, the kind of bad that doesn’t require definition probably. I can see how it is useful but its still bad”. That list was Kylo Ember Backdraft Scorch. The names are so cool but unfortunately coolness of named theme didnt translate to quality of list. I haven’t found a list that would take Ember instead of Holo. Maybe theres a list that takes both and makes more sense. I hate i5+ pt costs so much.

8 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Fine, I'll make a hill

As opposed to what?

e: Like, if we're comparing Ember within FO squads then you run apparently into the same problem. So, why the snark?

two part, I definitely think midnight is better, so that was my comparison, but also I'm having a rough day and communicated poorly. I am authentically sorry

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

I don't have anything worked out. No, I just think Ember brings the useful part of Midnight to the table.

Because the defensive part is a cute bonus for the early/mid game, and extremely strong late game, if late game is a 1v1. But 2.0 and hyperspace does not really get there, does it? So her strong part is irrelevant.

The offensive part of her ability is largely irrelevant because she spends her action for it. Ember, on the other hand, gets a double modified 3 dice attack ON TOP of midnights ability - or at least against most opponents.

Of course not against Boba, because Boba is 1.0 levels degenerate (passive double mods and activation timing dial change?!). But that's not entirely fair to judge an ability.

That's actually a really good point, i haven't gotten a ton of games in the current HS format, and haven't gotten to my midnight lists, because reasons, but i do notice that we're still living in the goes to time pretty often world. Between fanatical and other tools in fo, i think she can get pretty consistent damage output.

Kylo/Holo/Vonreg seems actually good

I won't rule out that the hyperevolved meta version might end up being Kylo/Holo/Ember to outbid Boba but that seems :thonk:

Ember's real problem is that the ability isn't as useful as Holo, has one less initiative, and only costs two points less. Much better to cut 2 points elsewhere in your list and bring Holo.

I can't imagine many circumstances where I'd want both either, which would be the other way out of that.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

unfortunately coolness of theme didnt translate to quality of list.

My X-Wing life

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I have only played one hyper list so far that my immediate reaction was “this is bad, not ironic quotes bad, actual bad, the kind of bad that doesn’t require definition probably. I can see how it is useful but its still bad”. That list was Kylo Ember Backdraft Scorch. The names are so cool but unfortunately coolness of named theme didnt translate to quality of list.

We've finally found the weakness in your hyperspace plot armor. I expect the castle to start crumbling any day now.

I wish it was my hill - I'd try to make Ember work, start a blog about it, and tell you in half a year that you were right. But I'd still try

Just now, Micanthropyre said:

We've finally found the weakness in your hyperspace plot armor. I expect the castle to start crumbling any day now.

I will protect fort hyper to the last. Even if the data conflicts entirely with that defense. Because its worth it. Because its the format we need not the format we deserve. I dont care if it requires figuring out how to fight i1 disco bots and supernatural fatbergs.

8 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Kylo/Holo/Vonreg seems actually good

I won't rule out that the hyperevolved meta version might end up being Kylo/Holo/Ember to outbid Boba but that seems :thonk:

I come from the void (practice room), and speak to illuminate : 3 ship ace like that has some very tricky matchups, especially against lots firing arcs, like Arcs, 5SF, 5A. Holo is nearly detrimental in a 3 ship list. Kylo also doesn't punch quite hard enough to make up for running away time. At least, this list isn't super strong. It certainly has some strengths but not an easy list as it would seem.

Ember is my next examination target (to replace Holo in 3 ace). *wriggles gloved hands

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I wish it was my hill - I'd try to make Ember work, start a blog about it, and tell you in half a year that you were right. But I'd still try

Stop it, guys. Words hurt.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

I will protect fort hyper to the last. Even if the data conflicts entirely with that defense. Because its worth it. Because its the format we need not the format we deserve. I dont care if it requires figuring out how to fight i1 disco bots and supernatural fatbergs.

I still think the format should be less arbitrary and more structured.

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

Kylo also doesn't punch quite hard enough to make up for running away time.

APT and 4 Dice Auto Crit Kylo is my religion.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

APT and 4 Dice Auto Crit Kylo is my religion.

Dost explane?

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

I come from the void (practice room), and speak to illuminate : 3 ship ace like that has some very tricky matchups, especially against lots firing arcs, like Arcs, 5SF, 5A. Holo is nearly detrimental in a 3 ship list. Kylo also doesn't punch quite hard enough to make up for running away time. At least, this list isn't super strong. It certainly has some strengths but not an easy list as it would seem.

Ember is my next examination target. *wriggles gloved hands

not my experience with the list at all really, I don't think Holo has been bad for me even once and evade Kylo can joust just about anything with no consequences. my only problem thus far has been other aces

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

Stop it, guys. Words hurt.

****, I'm so sorry, that burn was unintentional. I was thinking about my own. But yeah, I can see the connection...

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

I still think the format should be less arbitrary and more structured.

Hyper is remarkably well constructed. I give the devs a ton of credit. Its clear they put some thought into. Not perfect but calling it arbitrary is something I dont agree with. In fact.....I disagree.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Hyper is remarkably well constructed. I give the devs a ton of credit. Its clear they put some thought into. Not perfect but calling it arbitrary is something I dont agree with. In fact.....I disagree.

Expand please. Your thought process isn't known to me.

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

Expand please. Your thought process isn't known to me.

Scroll up

2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

not my experience with the list at all really, I don't think Holo has been bad for me even once and evade Kylo can joust just about anything with no consequences. my only problem thus far has been other aces

excuse me, evade Kylo? Kylo doesn't have evade. He also doesn't joust 2 Xs or even a single arc or B well.

I've had Hot pass a few tokens/friendlyTLs for good once or twice. Then pass detrimental tokens for severely terrible consequences.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Scroll up

That's the thing offisuh, it seems to only go down!

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Hyper is remarkably well constructed. I give the devs a ton of credit. Its clear they put some thought into. Not perfect but calling it arbitrary is something I dont agree with. In fact.....I disagree.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Expand please. Your thought process isn't known to me.

Hyperspace looks like they started with cutting anything not reprinted in 2.0

Then they created a list of pilots and upgrades that they couldn't cut

Then they cut anything not on that list that looked remotely like an auto-include

Then they prayed to the balance gods they didn't mess up.