1 minute ago, RStan said:

aka, system phase because it's underutilized as is sure

Just so you can't do it while being stressed or something that would stop a rotate action like damaged sensor array.

no planning so opponent can dial around rotate, and action so you can't move it later. Agile gunner is now a bit more useful.

1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It is. Two BHs with Fenn is also decent.

It is. But I prefer mine with a taste of PerCo and an aroma of Skull....

I'm still trying to put together a very decent list that doesn't have a Spray pilot beginning with B in it

Beginning to accept just good or fun.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

WYSIWYG

super out.

Anti-Word gang

Pro-LaTeX gang

I dont usually play extended but when i do:

Boba Fett — Firespray-class Patrol Craft85Lone Wolf5Heavy Laser Cannon5Proton Rockets7Maul12Slave I1Proton Torpedoes13Ship Total: 128Half Points: 64 Threshold: 5 Fenn Rau — Fang Fighter68Fearless3Ship Total: 71Half Points: 36 Threshold: 2

Let memes be memes.

13 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I dont usually play extended but when i do:

Boba Fett — Firespray-class Patrol Craft85Lone Wolf5Heavy Laser Cannon5Proton Rockets7Maul12Slave I1Proton Torpedoes13Ship Total: 128Half Points: 64 Threshold: 5 Fenn Rau — Fang Fighter68Fearless3Ship Total: 71Half Points: 36 Threshold: 2

Let memes be memes.

Shooting out the back sometimes is good 😂

Swap Fearless for Predator, so Bob can take CC. 200 baby!

Of course procktes is a bad idea. But is it really? (yes)

You don't actually need a 16pt bid, right? 9pts would be enough against an absolute overwhelming majority of opponents. And chances are that the mirrors/double firespray require you to remove protons, so you'd anyway have to go ridiculously high with the bid. With that in mind, isn't procket on Boba actually a decision that does not matter for the vast majority of games? And as such, it's at worst inconsequential, but at best actually a bit good?

Same for HLC, of course, and to a smaller degree for protons (just use plasmas...). 25pt secondary weapons is obviously bad, but one of them could be quite ok.

e: and as soon as you make an actual blunder during your game that blunder dwarfs such a rather extreme optimization question anyway. My point is: does that even matter for those who make mistakes?

I think Boba might want HLC more than prockets. But I fly 3 ship extended 0 bid Boba, so what do I know

5 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

I think Boba might want HLC more than prockets. But I fly 3 ship extended 0 bid Boba, so what do I know

A lot. The bid isn't for Boba, who barely cares. The bid is for Fenn. Boba just benefits a little bit.

8 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

A lot. The bid isn't for Boba, who barely cares. The bid is for Fenn. Boba just benefits a little bit.

I know Boomowl said extended, where I agree. But even there a 9pt bid is strong. Kylo and Soontir rarely if ever go that deep. That makes HLC and maybe even prockets a non-bad choice.

Which reminds me, I had written and deleted again something about Herzberg's two-factor motivational theory in that other thread, because I think it is such a useful concept, I might even have mentioned before at some point. The context is (work)motivation, where he distinguishes between two types of factors: hygiene factors rank from negative to not-negative (zero/neutral), while motivators range from not-positive (zero/neutral) to positive.

I bring it up because I find a way to apply the concept every now and then, and I see it here, too. Prockets on Boba would normally be found in the group of hygiene factors: at best, they are not bad. At worst they are horrible. But due to the huge bid and the rather low bids of the competition, prockets on Boba turn here into "motivators", to stick to the terminology: they suddenly are not-good at worst, and could potentially be good.

Anyway, got to go to bed. Small 19 people extended event tomorrow. I still haven't decided between the sweet sloane swarm and the 200pt imp aces.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Kylo and Soontir rarely if ever go that deep.

With Kylo, my bid matrix is:

0 pts for 2U or a bunch of TIE shaped mooks

1 leftover from no biohexacrypt on Blackout + Muse.

2 pts for 2 silencer friends

5ish for Holo + Blackout

10 for Quickdraw/Vonreg + Rivas

6ish for extended Holo + Vonreg, but 9 - 13 for hyper Holo + Vonreg

A certified shitload for 2 ship lists (which never finish on time, but are actually good in extended). Hyperspace 2 ship Kylo is funny with munitions, but a bad idea w/o Supernat.

Upsilon area denial/optics/Rush shenanigans/Instinctive munitions mitigate bid needs, but self-nerfing of the BA/trying to snag locks/gimping a list with SNR instead of another Epsilon/4 health wonky linked bar instigate bid needs. Kylo doesn't need a bid as such, but the more you tech your list to be acey/cagey and less efficient, the more bid you'll want.

9 hours ago, Kieransi said:

WYSIWYG

TLOS

8 hours ago, jagsba said:

Anti-Word gang

Says the guy running CIS upgrades.

14 hours ago, catachanninja said:

I just need to bully one of my locals or some rando on vassal into running boba against the kylo plus four that i like against everything else. I generally feel okay with kylo even if stuff moves after him, but i worry about kylos friends ability to hurt boba, hence, i need some games. That said i found a neat rebel beef alternative (impossible rebels if im branding it) that i'm super happy with, so maybe i just resign myself to having always been a rebel dad who jousts.

@Boom Owl and were talking vassal boba practice on Sunday if you want.

53 minutes ago, impspy said:

Says the guy running CIS upgrades.

Bill gates word

Went with the sloane swarm, which is amazing, but also horrible to play against. Anyway, on the way back we talked lists, and I want to put something with 5thbro +homings on the table.

That got me thinking: Is it possible for Redline to make a comeback? Advanced Sensors Protontorps Redline was 61pts at some point, which was completely ridiculous for such an outstanding movie character.

But were we scared off by the increase in points? Redline is probably worth the 64pts with plasmas and passives, or 8 more with trajsim protons. Right?

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Went with the sloane swarm, which is amazing, but also horrible to play against. Anyway, on the way back we talked lists, and I want to put something with 5thbro +homings on the table.

That got me thinking: Is it possible for Redline to make a comeback? Advanced Sensors Protontorps Redline was 61pts at some point, which was completely ridiculous for such an outstanding movie character.

But were we scared off by the increase in points? Redline is probably worth the 64pts with plasmas and passives, or 8 more with trajsim protons. Right?

The most important upgrade for Redline was obviously munitions/PTs, Plasmas, bombs...

But the second most important one was AdvSen.

AdvSen Redline was a hurricane.

Without, just a gale.

---

No, I think Redline is overcosted now.

--

What about Deathrain? This version guarantees always focus and ALL sorts of firepower.

“Redline” (52)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

“Deathrain” (44)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Total: 141

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

For a total of 10 or so points less too. very affordable.

30 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Went with the sloane swarm, which is amazing, but also horrible to play against. Anyway, on the way back we talked lists, and I want to put something with 5thbro +homings on the table.

That got me thinking: Is it possible for Redline to make a comeback? Advanced Sensors Protontorps Redline was 61pts at some point, which was completely ridiculous for such an outstanding movie character.

But were we scared off by the increase in points? Redline is probably worth the 64pts with plasmas and passives, or 8 more with trajsim protons. Right?

Flew him with just torps and passive today. His cost feels about right for what he can do + the immense flexibility he has. I don't believe in giving him tragedy sim because those extra points are eaten from the rest of the list and he really, really wants to alpha. He can arc dodge in a pinch, but he'd much rather alpha.

Passives let you ignore the bid. 3 pts for not caring about that + always giving I6 a scare with calculate lock torps are great.

really buzzes my bees

56 minutes ago, svelok said:

really buzzes my bees

Coordinate + Autothrusters, or Coordinate + Stop are cool. I know this is Duncan, so the strat is efficient things plus + BIIIIIIIIIIIID! and git gud, but were a mortal such as myself were to netlist this, I'd slap the shuttle Title for only 4 pt more. ST321 and Krennic can really haul some serious weight and the fun part of the combo is that your shuttle gets rewarded with mods for coordinating on the turns it needs to coordinate. I have disappointed it far more than it has disappointed me.

9 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

I don't believe in giving him tragedy sim because those extra points are eaten from the rest of the list and he really, really wants to alpha. He can arc dodge in a pinch, but he'd much rather alpha.

I can see that. The bombthrow would be a pure local meta call - and I have the points because I want to put 5thbrother with homings on the table...

Looks like this then:

(67) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
(6) Afterburners
(3) Passive Sensors
Points: 76

(52) "Redline" [TIE/ca Punisher]
(5) Proton Bombs
(1) Delayed Fuses
(6) Trajectory Simulator
(9) Plasma Torpedoes
Points: 73

(42) Fifth Brother [TIE Advanced v1]
(5) Homing Missiles
(3) Passive Sensors
Points: 50

Total points: 199

Delayed fuses because you make it just more complicated for your opponent

Is this some terrible case of the Mondays? Page 2 pfft!

Discussion: What are some rules of list building you've created for this Hyperspace meta? Whether it's because certain pieces on their own are pretty good and/or you consider something required to deal with a meta staple.

Ex: If you don't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again. Discord Missiles are good on their own AND allow droids to play against Boba.

20 minutes ago, RStan said:

Is this some terrible case of the Mondays? Page 2 pfft!

Discussion: What are some rules of list building you've created for this Hyperspace meta? Whether it's because certain pieces on their own are pretty good and/or you consider something required to deal with a meta staple.

Ex: If you don't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again. Discord Missiles are good on their own AND allow droids to play against Boba.

1. Have a list and a plan that can handle both Boba+ and CIS. Prioritize dealing with Boba if all you want to do is make cut.

2. There is no “correct” ship count. More is more fun though.

31 minutes ago, RStan said:

Discussion: What are some rules of list building you've created for this Hyperspace meta? Whether it's because certain pieces on their own are pretty good and/or you consider something required to deal with a meta staple.

Easiest question ever, 5A. The question for me is what to bring when I want a change 5A, and there I am torn between 6 Strikers and @Flurpy's new resistance jouster list with Kaz. Imo, CIS is handled mainly on the board, but Boba is answered by strongly modified or many 3dice attacks. Boba is more prevalent around here, so I don't have to care about CIS much.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Easiest question ever, 5A. The question for me is what to bring when I want a change 5A, and there I am torn between 6 Strikers and @Flurpy's new resistance jouster list with Kaz. Imo, CIS is handled mainly on the board, but Boba is answered by strongly modified or many 3dice attacks. Boba is more prevalent around here, so I don't have to care about CIS much.

Well I have an easy answer. 5A and 6 Strikers are big brain lists. My jousters are "I go one forward and try not to droll over myself" list. It's a nice change of pace. Thats why I play Thicc Rey in Extended to toss a bone to the two remaining brain cells.

49 minutes ago, RStan said:

Is this some terrible case of the Mondays? Page 2 pfft!

Discussion: What are some rules of list building you've created for this Hyperspace meta? Whether it's because certain pieces on their own are pretty good and/or you consider something required to deal with a meta staple.

Ex: If you don't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again. Discord Missiles are good on their own AND allow droids to play against Boba.

For resistance, start with the most efficient piece, then add the next, etc and hope it adds to between 195 and 200. If that fails, backtrack one step and add a more/less expensive piece. If you fail 5 times, backtrack 2 steps and repeat.

For example, add zizi...Kaz...Jess...Greer...oops 181 points. Swap Bastian for Greer and well waddyaknow.

I realize that a lot of times this logical tree will lead to 5a, but I believe in Kaz.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

Discussion: What are some rules of list building you've created for this Hyperspace meta? Whether it's because certain pieces on their own are pretty good and/or you consider something required to deal with a meta staple.

Ex: If you don't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again. Discord Missiles are good on their own AND allow droids to play against Boba.

Start with Poe, count to 200. Apply some of what @Ablazoned mentioned if that counting gets weird.

I'm always going to start with Poe, but I also think he just happens to be good in the current Hyperspace meta. I'd been playing him on hard mode for so long, when I switch to cheap R4 + maybe title and/or Heroic, he's really easy to play and it's allowable to trade him. He also doesn't care that much about a bid in the current Hyperspace meta.