1 minute ago, Micanthropyre said:

Sure we can extrapolate it into a worst case scenario for memes thats fine.

What really else is there?

Anyway, exaggeration aside, smaller maps favor joust lists and good grief swarms. If the answer to that is to decrease list points you start an interesting circle.

You want games to end faster? Lower defence... of course that makes initiative killing that much more powerful...

You know what? Balance is hard when you look at impacts of changes

20 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

13 people ended 5-0

I know only 3 lists for sure: Rey cova kaz, wedge 3 Bwings, sloane reaper and a mix of ties and interceptors

Can also confirm 5x TIE Advanced went 5-0.

There were no bad players or bad squads on 5-0. Don’t forget this was another 400 player tournament with a massive prize at the end of it! I went 5-0 and didn’t face a single non-killer list in doing so. Maybe the worst I faced was 6 TIE/sf.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

What really else is there?

Anyway, exaggeration aside, smaller maps favor joust lists and good grief swarms. If the answer to that is to decrease list points you start an interesting circle.

You want games to end faster? Lower defence... of course that makes initiative killing that much more powerful...

You know what? Balance is hard when you look at impacts of changes

It's almost as if game mechanics are not arbitrary and factor in a wide array of elements that may not be immediately visible to the player...but that explanation doesn't play into me being salty, so I'll disregard it

10 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Sure we can extrapolate it into a worst case scenario for memes thats fine.

Yes, a smaller mat would favor jousting lists more. Currently, in order to allow jousting lists to battle aces you need to have points set in such a way that you have 5+ ships in the joust, and games go to time. That isn't inherently a problem, but what if I told you that adjusting the play area slightly is just another lever to alter the game state. Losing the equivalent of what, a 2 straight from each edge is hardly forcing a joust, its instead limiting the space aces have to run away to.

Even taking a single ship-length off each side would be pretty impactful. Rule of 11 down to Rule of 9.

6 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

What really else is there?

Anyway, exaggeration aside, smaller maps favor joust lists and good grief swarms. If the answer to that is to decrease list points you start an interesting circle.

You want games to end faster? Lower defence... of course that makes initiative killing that much more powerful...

You know what? Balance is hard when you look at impacts of changes

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

It's almost as if game mechanics are not arbitrary and factor in a wide array of elements that may not be immediately visible to the player...but that explanation doesn't play into me being salty, so I'll disregard it

It looks hard and non obvious, until you remember we have forum accounts, which makes us way more qualified to figure these things out than your average designer.

4 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

What really else is there?

Anyway, exaggeration aside, smaller maps favor joust lists and good grief swarms. If the answer to that is to decrease list points you start an interesting circle.

You want games to end faster? Lower defence... of course that makes initiative killing that much more powerful...

You know what? Balance is hard when you look at impacts of changes

Right, thats what I'm saying. There are levers to pull that have not been pulled. We are halfway to Same Teaming here, except we are already in the interesting circle. FFG just buffed generics so you can bring enough arcs to maybe catch the aces, but if the aces had fewer places to run to you could catch them with fewer arcs and those points decreases wouldn't have been necessary, which is nice because now the aces also will have less HP to chew through to win the game so they aren't super nerfed either.

17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Even taking a single ship-length off each side would be pretty impactful. Rule of 11 down to Rule of 9.

Yes. Thats why I worded it as a musing rather than "FFG should reduce the play area". I personally don't have the galaxy brain necessary to head sim how it would affect balance, but at least we have some people here that do so I don't have to think about it anymore

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Fair enough. I did change my opinion from "textbook power creep!!" to "eventually power creep in the long-term" myself.

With two major assumptions:

1. The pieces that were buffed were ever playable, or would have been playable at a higher cost than they were given

2. The devs continue to pursue this method of balancing for all or most future adjustments.

I would very much call both of those assumptions into question.

Also important to note the devs were VERY a nerf-heavy in the first few adjustments, and most of the very-generous buffs were long-requested and long-denied by a large section of the player base.

Thought experiment:

What if this Hyperspace season used last season’s points but this season’s restrictions?

Would it be as diverse as we have been seeing or would it still be totally dominated by 2-4 ship I5+ based lists?

I suspect the points have at least as much to do with it as the curation. This is why I’m optimistic for extended (in spite of the lack of nerfs).

Double post.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

What if this Hyperspace season used last season’s points but this season’s restrictions?

Would it be as diverse as we have been seeing or would it still be totally dominated by 2-4 ship I5+ based lists?

I suspect the points have at least as much to do with it as the curation.

I imagine this is the case. Otherwise, droids would be tippytop with no contest.

7 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I imagine this is the case. Otherwise, droids would be tippytop with no contest.

Droids whos hyperspace points didn't change and who's biggest counter's hyperspace points didn't change either?

Why does no one use proton torps and inertial diapers on boba?

14 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Droids whos hyperspace points didn't change and who's biggest counter's hyperspace points didn't change either?

Yes, because the points changed around them to make them more "average"

I would also (foolishly speak from inexperience to) say that the best counter to vulture swarms is beefy lists and/or mid-initiative swarms, not aces, and those did get buffed.

I could well be wrong.

33 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Droids whos hyperspace points didn't change and who's biggest counter's hyperspace points didn't change either?

Less about droids not changing, and more about things that prey on Boba. Also, as @ClassicalMoser pointed out, many break points changed. 5X can stand against droids. Perhaps some other 5+ lists can, as well. The only thing that hurt droids directly in Hyperspace was Sear dropping out.

If the point changes hadn't happened, Hyperspace would have been a solved meta of just droids.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Less about droids not changing, and more about things that prey on Boba. Also, as @ClassicalMoser pointed out, many break points changed. 5X can stand against droids. Perhaps some other 5+ lists can, as well. The only thing that hurt droids directly in Hyperspace was Sear dropping out.

If the point changes hadn't happened, Hyperspace would have been a solved meta of just droids.

How many non sear droid swarms did you see before the points change?

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Why does no one use proton torps and inertial diapers on boba?

Proton torps are to expensive. Er, rather for 13 points you can outfit Boba with a lot more versatile tools than proton torps. So they really are to expensive for the firespray chassis in particular (and I don’t really want to see them come down. Theres a lot of comfort seeing 5+ of say Ys or tie bombers and they aren’t all nuking you with proton torps).

idk about internal dampeners though. Personal flavor?

2 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

idk about internal dampeners though.

ID: 5pts, damages and stresses ship that uses it. Same slot as Contraband Cybernetics which is 2 points or Rigged which is 4 points...

Carolina Krayts may be the best x wing podxast, but Dutch Vander with proton torpedoes is one of the best builds out there. At a price of 53, he easily fits into almost any rebel squad.

1 hour ago, Roller of blanks said:

Carolina Krayts may be the best x wing podxast, but Dutch Vander with proton torpedoes is one of the best builds out there. At a price of 53, he easily fits into almost any rebel squad.

My problem with him is he just makes me want to fly some Redline. A shame too, considering what he brings to the friendly B Wing config.

As an aside, are 4 marksmanship autoblaster gunboats + blocker a bad idea?

1 minute ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

As an aside, are 4 marksmanship autoblaster gunboats + blocker a bad idea?

Gunboats are never a bad idea.

Praise GUNBOAT.

1 hour ago, Roller of blanks said:

Carolina Krayts may be the best x wing podxast, but Dutch Vander with proton torpedoes is one of the best builds out there. At a price of 53, he easily fits into almost any rebel squad.

We are officially turning into Reddit, we now even have novelty accounts. I am just waiting for the inevitable in nineteen ninety eight the undertaker threw mankind off hеll in a cell, and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table.

2 hours ago, Flurpy said:

We are officially turning into Reddit, we now even have novelty accounts. I am just waiting for the inevitable in nineteen ninety eight the undertaker threw mankind off hеll in a cell, and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table.

Here's the thing. You said "Boba is an ace."

Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that.

As someone who is a scientist who studies aces, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls Boba an ace. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing.

If you're saying "ace, loosely" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of arc dodgers, which includes things from Rey to T70s to Sear.

So your reasoning for calling Boba an ace is because random people "call the good ones aces?" Let's get Wedge and Cova in there, then, too.

Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. Boba is a Boba and a member of the arc dodger family. But that's not what you said. You said Boba is an ace, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the arcdodger family aces, which means you'd call Rey, T70s, and other ships aces, too. Which you said you don't.

It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?

I dunno what the heck happened. But the board size is fine. Xwing right now is pretty fine. I've got some w(h)ine, like always, but the core of the game? very fine. Balance points? very fine.

The core of the balance points are now there with the audacious balance of the generics. What's left is now high quality tweaking to named pilots and upgrades.

I do wish the game went faster, but at least we get a reason to play to the end now. Half points definitely made each round count for something against relatively equally skilled players.

7 hours ago, jagsba said:

How many non sear droid swarms did you see before the points change?

About 50% of the droid swarms that I saw last season had Sear.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?

I’m disappointed you haven’t thanked any kind strangers for the forum gold.

Also if this leads to this thread becoming a series of super caked-on WIP repaints and posts that start with “Here’s my list idea, critique it?” followed by something I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy on super casual night, I will never forgive you.

Just now, DoubleDown11 said:

I’m disappointed you haven’t thanked any kind strangers for the forum gold.

Also if this leads to this thread becoming a series of super caked-on WIP repaints and posts that start with “Here’s my list idea, critique it?” followed by something I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy on super casual night, I will never forgive you.

positive criticism only.