Indeed, although the same is true within the Inquisition itself. Once you've reached a certain level of veterancy and influence with a far-reaching network of other Inquisitors - once you can call yourself an "Inquisitor Lord" - things do get a lot easier and you'll be able to get away with more personal quirks because, for example, the Ordo Sicarius will prefer not to antagonise you just for a single Assassin.

Yet likewise, before reaching this point in your career (which very few Inquisitors do), you're not going to want to antagonise the Ordo Sicarius by effectively stealing Assassins as sexy companions for your personal retinue.

Or maybe you do, but then you're going to have to deal with the consequences of such audacity.

It comes down to how clever the individual Inquisitor is, and whether they try to avoid needless trouble with their peers, or whether they simply don't care and are too focused on some self-defined goal, exploiting their newfound authority without regard for on whose toes they might step by doing so.

I suppose the other issue is that it probably isn't brilliant to threaten the head of a temple of assassins in person.

And it probably is even less brilliant to threaten the head of a temple of assassins and then accept their aid - in person. There's no saying that the assassin's mission won't be to kill the quarrelsome Inquisitor - and then either send their ship into a sun or just sabotage its warp drive.

"An Inquisitor was sent to our temple to pick up an assassin? No, they haven't arrived. You'll be the first one I contact when they arrive."

Of course, this includes a risk that the Ordo Sicarius might take notice. On the other hand, maybe they wouldn't interfere on purpose, just preferring to let things work themselves out. It's that other Inquisitor's own fault, after all, and this way they won't have to try and build a case against him for an Inquisitorial court, which may well take years or decades.

By the way, upon re-reading the Codex Assassins, I noticed that whilst it'd be extreeeemely unlikely for an Assassin to become Inquisitor, there are apparently Inquisitors who become Assassins! Sort of.

The term "Assassin-Inquisitor" sounds a bit misleading, though, for the description suggests they work more like informants for the Ordo Sicarius, rather than investigating stuff on their own, let alone wielding a rosette. Still, perhaps an interesting thing to know about! I could see stuff like this have the potential to come up in some Dark Heresy campaign.

I also liked Eversor's (as in the man himself) plan to kill Horus: Send every single eversor assassin at the warmaster at the same time! Man that would have been awesome! (lots of bio explosions I would think) It would have been better than the plan they came up with in the novel.

That would have been a great attack plan and might have worked, if not would have weakened Horus enough that 1 of the others could have Bagged him

I would not say that an Officio Assassinorum operative "cannot ever, never never" become an Inquisitor. But due to the nature of Assassins, there had best be a very **** good reason for it, which I can't for the life of me think of right now. Maybe some incredibly labyrinthine plot to assassinate a high ranking Radical Inquisitor requires an Assassin to get close to him, so the Assassinorum spends years inserting a Callidus into the Inquisition and working her way up to get close to the Radical....

Otherwise, I don't feel that Assassinorum operatives have any "free choice" - they are indoctrinated to follow orders, and so would not be like "I really want to become an Inquisitor, so that's what I am going to do. Peace out, Assassinorum!"

Slightly off topic, the talk of Deathcult assassins made me wonder, what character choices would be used to make a Deathcult assassin PC?

It seems assassin would be the most likely role (though not necessarily the only choice) and I guess homeworld probably isn't all that important either as they could come from anywhere. Background, however, is something I am not sure of, would it be generally outcast or perhaps a mutant trying to make amends for his sins of mutation by slaying the enemies of the Emperor?

I guess I have trouble viewing a Admech, Deathcult assassin or Administratim, IG etc. Or is it safe to say they can come from all walks of life?

I'm sure the answer is an obvious one but I seemed to have failed my forbidden lore: assassins role......

Assassins, as we think of them IRL would commonly come from an 'Outcast' background. However, a true death cultist is actually part of a fanatical religious organization so at least from a role-playing point of view, the Adeptus ministorum also makes sense. Unfortunately, said background does not really support the idea of an Assassin mechanically.

The way the game is set up, all of the roles, including the Assassin are going to vary wildly based on the organization they come from. While classic assassins come from the outcaste background, (Though what an Assassin's going to do with a chainsword I'll never figure out!), Imperial guard Assassins are most likely sharpshooters or snipers. Administratum Assassins would be the guardians of forbidden lore, hunting down those who are found to wrongfully accessed or grossly mishandled data. (Hillary Clinton would be in deep sh*t in 40k!)

Though what an Assassin's going to do with a chainsword I'll never figure out!

Hey, this is 40k...

In more seriousness, I'm sure most GM's would be happy to accommodate a player with such concerns. FFG was just facing a very difficult decision here; it's the downside of a system that is more open and allows more combinations. The only way to do it better would be to remove equipment entirely and make that a separate step, such as by offering "packages" that people can pick.

But yeah, personally I'd recommend Outcast as well, at least as the default, most likely choice.

Though what an Assassin's going to do with a chainsword I'll never figure out!

Hey, this is 40k...

In more seriousness, I'm sure most GM's would be happy to accommodate a player with such concerns. FFG was just facing a very difficult decision here; it's the downside of a system that is more open and allows more combinations. The only way to do it better would be to remove equipment entirely and make that a separate step, such as by offering "packages" that people can pick.

But yeah, personally I'd recommend Outcast as well, at least as the default, most likely choice.

I generally offer my outcasts (Or any character from a feral world) the following choice: A.) 1 primitive melee weapon of good quality, or, B.) one primitive melee weapon with the " Mono" enhancement to replace the chainsword if they wish. This would especially make sense if your outcaste is supposed to be a Ganger from the underhives. Things like chainswords are just frightfully uncommon down there! In the original Necromunda that the fluff draws from, Underhivers live primarily off of scavenging. They routinely carried all manner of home made melee weapons but high tech things like las pistols and chainswords were a sign of status typically reserved for gang leaders. Hardly starting equipment to my mind!

Things like chainswords are just frightfully uncommon down there! In the original Necromunda that the fluff draws from, Underhivers live primarily off of scavenging. They routinely carried all manner of home made melee weapons but high tech things like las pistols and chainswords were a sign of status typically reserved for gang leaders.

Ah, The Necromundan Underhive . A world which consists entirely of piles of rusty pipework where somehow a club costs five credits.....

I guess I have trouble viewing a Admech, Deathcult assassin or Administratim, IG etc. Or is it safe to say they can come from all walks of life?

Indeed! "assassin" role essentially just means "person who specialises in killing people with a modicum of finesse" - it doesn't necessarily mean 'sneaky' An assassin could be a blade-wielding ninja, or a sniper, but a nobleborn assassin could just as easily be a paid duellist who turns up and slaps you across the face with a white silk glove.

I think there was a 'duelling laspistol' in Rogue Trader?

The administratum doesn't need soldiers per se, but as the organisation which oversees the tithes, I'm sure they have some grimdark sci-fi equivalent of bailiffs on the books somewhere.

Things like chainswords are just frightfully uncommon down there! In the original Necromunda that the fluff draws from, Underhivers live primarily off of scavenging. They routinely carried all manner of home made melee weapons but high tech things like las pistols and chainswords were a sign of status typically reserved for gang leaders.

Ah, The Necromundan Underhive . A world which consists entirely of piles of rusty pipework where somehow a club costs five credits.....

"Hey! those clubs all came from an archeotech vault! Good quality clubs: Made of real wood! They also come with a powerfist made of leather and these small grenade orbs, but those last two don't work for some reason..."

Yeah I'd go for Outcast to if you want something dead. Assassins are more ballerina than killer.

Things like chainswords are just frightfully uncommon down there! In the original Necromunda that the fluff draws from, Underhivers live primarily off of scavenging. They routinely carried all manner of home made melee weapons but high tech things like las pistols and chainswords were a sign of status typically reserved for gang leaders. Hardly starting equipment to my mind!

Well, bolt pistols are the sign of status, according to the rulebook -- las pistols are "manufactured in vast quantities", "reliable and easy to replicate".

But yeah, chainswords seem crazy-rare there. They cost as much as a plasma pistol! And though I'm sure this is at least partially due to gameplay balance, the fluff does verify your mention of them being "expensive and prestigious".

On a sidenote, I like your ruling. The "mono" aspect makes primitive weapons fitting for characters from more advanced worlds, whilst tribals get a good quality one instead. Should cover the vast majority of concepts.

The administratum doesn't need soldiers per se, but as the organisation which oversees the tithes, I'm sure they have some grimdark sci-fi equivalent of bailiffs on the books somewhere.

The more I think about it, the more I approve of this idea.

Assassins are more ballerina than killer.

Hmm, I was about to interject by mentioning snipers, but then again, I suppose long-range shooting could be seen as an artful profession as well...

Perhaps rather than "killer" you ought to say "brute". Killing they do both .. just in very different ways.

The more I think about it, the more I approve of this idea.

For the 'proper' Administratum, I guess you could argue the Arbites covers that role - failure to provide the Tithe being an 'Imperial' crime.

However, since calling them in involves the relevant Administratum Adept - a senior bureaucrat - saying " I can't manage to do my job and need to formally ask an outside body for assistance " (pretty much anathema even to civil servants today, let alone in a universe quite happy to reward poor job performance with all sorts of creative and fatal punishments)..... I'm pretty sure they'll maintain some entity they can use 'in house' without having to put problems on the record.

Perhaps rather than "killer" you ought to say "brute". Killing they do both .. just in very different ways.

Indeed.

Expert At Violence (the warrior special rule) gives you an ability to up your degrees of success - which does occasionally net you an extra point of damage (if you up your degrees of success and end up using the "swap damage roll for your degrees of success"), but not very often. It's primarily there for automatic weapons (and swift/lighting attack, which is essentially the same thing) or accurate weapons (note that a Warrior generally makes a better sniper than an assassin because of this - a BS40+ warrior always gets .

Sure Kill lets you add your degrees of success as extra damage. This is more flexible as it works whatever weapon you're using, and lets you do more damage than the theoretical maximum - which rewards the 'one lethal hit' of high damage guns and melee weapons, or subtle weapons (because 2-3 extra damage from a knife suddenly makes it the equal of a proper sword, for example).

The administratum doesn't need soldiers per se, but as the organisation which oversees the tithes, I'm sure they have some grimdark sci-fi equivalent of bailiffs on the books somewhere.

The more I think about it, the more I approve of this idea.

Yeah I to would like to see some "Adeptus Tributum" personel aswell. In warhammer fantasy there is mention of tax collectors gathering in doznes strong packs, with guards whenever they go into the province of Sylvania. (or any of the remote settlements in the Drakwald really.)

Organisation: Adeptus Tributum

Rank: Cencitior

Motto: "Death and Taxes"

Well, for really out-of-the-way places (within Imperial Space but lacking a permenant Imperial presence), the Imperium has a fairly extreme approach; they send a Divisio Mandati expedition.


From the Adeptus Titanicus book:

The Titan Legions of the Divisio Mandati are known as "Executive Orders." They travel in vast temple-spacecraft, responsible for bringing the Pax Imperia to isolated worlds of the Imperium. Each temple ship carries between two and five of the immense Emperor Battle Titans, as well as Tech-priests, Mechanicus regular troops, maintenance Adepts and support personnel.

Each Emperor Titan in the Divisio is its own self-contained unit, carrying members of the Adeptus Arbites, the Inquisition and the other Adepta of the Adeptus Terra. With an Emperor Titan as their platform, servants of the Imperium can be very persuasive, and if that fails, they possess more than enough firepower to get their point across. It is through this combination of persuasion and potent threat that the Pax Imperia is brought to many worlds.

However, since calling them in involves the relevant Administratum Adept - a senior bureaucrat - saying " I can't manage to do my job and need to formally ask an outside body for assistance " (pretty much anathema even to civil servants today, let alone in a universe quite happy to reward poor job performance with all sorts of creative and fatal punishments)..... I'm pretty sure they'll maintain some entity they can use 'in house' without having to put problems on the record.

Yeah, just like the Ecclesiarchy occasionally uses the Sisters to enforce church tithes. Being an Imperial Adeptus, I'm sure they could just petition the Arbites (a sister org under the same umbrella), but the Senatorum Imperialis is politics in a lion's cage -- the more you can do your stuff on your own, the more influence you can exert when it comes to protecting your domain against hostile takeovers and the usual bickering among the High Lords.

If the Administratum has its own operatives, I'm sure they'd be a far cry from something like the Arbites in terms of power projection, but I could perfectly picture them as some clerk's/envoy's bodyguards and Russian-style debt collectors. I guess Desperado, Warrior or Seeker might work better than Assassin after all, but who knows -- all it'd take would be a suitable idea. Something crazy like an internal "cleaner" who doesn't go and enforce tithes, but takes out corrupt Administratum scribes in order to keep the adeptus in order without need for an external investigation. Yakuza-style mercy killings to prevent the police from sniffing around.

"Greetings, Marshal! Oh, you wanted to see Prefect Marqus? I must apologise, this is terribly embarassing but it seems the good man suffered an accident in the section seven primary elevatorus just last week. And what a mess that was! Awful incident, just awful."

Motto: "Death and Taxes"

No, no... It's "Taxes or Death".

From the Adeptus Titanicus book:

Now that you mention it, I was able to take a look at that one -- was that also the source you employed in the other thread when you were talking about "subordinate" Ecclesiarchy priests, etc? As I find no mention of this relationship in the book.

Indeed, I wouldn't even interpret the Pax Imperia as = Tithe collection. Rather that the Imperium just annexes a sector and sends these groups to say hello and cowe worlds into submission. The only thing they'd have to do with tithe collection would be to enforce acceptance of the initial evaluation by Administratum scribes. Mainly because I think the Pax Imperia is a direct reference to the Pax Romana , and as such carries a similar meaning.

This would also fit in better with the fluff about the Arbites, which says that every Imperial world has at least them, even if it's the only connection to the Imperium. There shouldn't be a world under stewardship of the Adeptus Terra without any sort of permanent Imperial presence, even if it's just a single Marshal and his deputy holding down the fort on the planet's only spaceport with a population of 800.

Or that's how I'm reading all of this, anyways. If you were referencing different sources I have not yet seen, please tell -- I would like to know for my own interpretation of the setting, too.

I guess Desperado, Warrior or Seeker might work better than Assassin after all, but who knows -- all it'd take would be a suitable idea.

Well, role doesn't necessarily translate to 'official job title' - as noted, Warrior and Assassin are essentially just different 'preferences' for style of combat.

"Greetings, Marshal! Oh, you wanted to see Prefect Marqus? I must apologise, this is terribly embarassing but it seems the good man suffered an accident in the section seven primary elevatorus just last week. And what a mess that was! Awful incident, just awful."

Reminds me of a Sherlock quote...

Just how many times did he fall out of the window?

It's been a long day, Inspector. I lost count.

First Post! It's unfortunate that this is the only Battle Sister profile picture available . . .

Just wanted to say I'm firmly in the camp of "No, you can't have your own assassin, Mr./Ms. Inquisitor"

This is a really interesting discussion. I did get really annoyed about all 6 Orders Majoris having sisters in the sector. Kinda stupid (or was that discussion in a different thread)?

Anyhow, I guess it's relevant that I am primarily a player of the WH40K tabletop game, but I love the fluff so much that I couldn't help but love Dark Heresy (the GW fluff that is, Fantasy Flight has absolutely butchered the SoB material).

Ok, you want a callidus assassin to become an inquisitor?

Not totally impossible, in a way.

Ms. Callidus wad assigned to Mr. Inquisitor for a vital, long term mission. The inquisitor has been after something major for a while. Near the end of the chase, he is killed. His callidus, knowing how vital his mission was and being familiar with him, assumes his identity and tries to complete his vital mission piecing together bits of information she had and what she can glean from his notes and possessions.

So a callidus assassin poses as an inquisitor to complete a vital mission. She reports that her callidus was killed while protecting the inquisitor by mimicking him. How's that for a 40k plot?

As to an inquisitor having an assassin, read 'lathe wolds'. The adeptus mechanicus have some pretty competent assasins of their own, and if an inquisitor was working on a mission that suited the AM, he miggt be 'loaned' one.

Ok, you want a callidus assassin to become an inquisitor?

Not totally impossible, in a way.

Ms. Callidus wad assigned to Mr. Inquisitor for a vital, long term mission. The inquisitor has been after something major for a while. Near the end of the chase, he is killed. His callidus, knowing how vital his mission was and being familiar with him, assumes his identity and tries to complete his vital mission piecing together bits of information she had and what she can glean from his notes and possessions.

So a callidus assassin poses as an inquisitor to complete a vital mission. She reports that her callidus was killed while protecting the inquisitor by mimicking him. How's that for a 40k plot?

I still would question whether the Assassin wouldn't just return to her temple after her mission. That is what she is essentially brainwashed to do.

Of course, she could certainly impersonate an inquisitor for a time.

I could see her returning to the temple and the temple giving her the new mission of keeping up the impersonation because it would be a valuable feed of info from the Inquisition to the Assassinorium. Not to mention an easy in for certain targets within the Ordos.

Not out of the realm of possibilities, but it was a lot of forward thinking on their part, which could prove dangerous if they snap.

She might be able to impersonate the Inquisitor, for a while, and then she'll only be able to impersonate that one person, because she'll run out of polymorphine. As much as I don't care the idea, mechanically, of sending Callie in with only 2-4 doses, when she might be undercover for months, I can see the value, as a control method. Someone as skilled as her would, where I can't, be able to more instinctively know when, and whom, to impersonate, not needing some 11-step program, or some such, so those doses should be enough. If she is caught, the Temple doesn't lose too much polymorphine (knowing the Imperium, probably ship-buildingly difficult to make, with just one ingedient being the concentrated essences of a lacrymole, or some such), and the enemy might not have too much to study, while if they are the only source, and Callie can't just make more, in the field, then the Temple maintains some control over her, and the conduct of her mission. Sure, these are brainwashed mega-specialists, and hypno-indoctrination is great, but anyone smart enough, and aware enough, to infiltrate a Chaos Cult to its top-most levels, CAN go rogue, and you want some hold over your expensive asset, even if she does have considerable discretion. In this way, I think that the Temple would keep tabs on Callie, and have some idea what's going on; whether they'd choose, clandestinely, to maintain her cover, is up to them, but there is the Ordo Sicarius for a reason, and I doubt the Inquisition would take it well. My two bits.

As to expanding this. I could see it going further. After Ms. Callidus returns to her temple as per programming she explains her actions, states she saw it as best for the imperium and expects to be executed, accepting it as the cost of doing what was best. The temple consults with the big I who need to know their boy bought it a while back. The two talk and...

Ms. Callidus in informed that her actions were good for the imperium, she is commended for fulfilling her mission to serve the inquisitor and that as of now the callidus assassin is believed dead and the inquisitor she impersonated is a hero of the imperium. It was decided that it was best things stay that way. Ms. Callidus isn't sure she can keep impersonating an inquisitor as she was going off notes the real one left behind and her own knowledge of the case, but it's OK, she's being assigned a real inquisitor who will pose as her interrogator.

So, we have the odd team of a callidus assassin impersonating a notable inquisitor, and a real inquisitor impersonating her interrogator so njeither is as they seem. How's that for a convoluted, twisted, paranoid 40k plot?