Wow. I consider myself a fairly intereactive member of the boards, but I hadn't checked this thread since page 3 or so. Talk about prize support in general usually turns me off, and discussion had gone down that path so I backed off the topic. Since then though it has erupted into a plethora of very interesting points, very good information, and most importantly a written testament showing that there are players from around North America at least (I'm sure there are some cross ponders that would equally comment as well) that really care about the welfare of this game.

Not that I didn't know that already, just that it is always refreshing to see it renewed and updated and with commentary from a large (and growing) group of individuals that I have a great deal of respect for. In fact, even Shinji, someone whom I am always on roller coaster terms with (well a tame roller coaster that doesn't ever get that high up... but you know what I mean) has contributed positively to this thread. And no, despite the preceding, I am not that surprised, it is easy to see he loves this game as much as the next forum-goer.

First, I'd like to say just that. Namely, if you count the number of players that don't really get all forum happy, and many of whom are very much lovers of this game, then you get an even better idea of how the game is growing in health relative to where it was at this time last year. There is a clear sense of optimism from most parts of the community, even if it is shaded by past experience or personal dislike for this or that.

As active as I try to be, I know I am just one person, and a fairly off-center person to boot. What does that mean? Well it means that I am in Calgary Alberta, I;m not near Brian (who is really the biggest Canadian advocate/communication-piece re: the game), I'm not near Toronto or that general Eastern Canada area (which is truly where the majority of players with a past winning/competitive history are found), and I'm relatively new to the game (mid 2008 start whereas many of the posters here have much more experience with UFS in its different shapes and forms than I).

What I can say though, is that the Calgary playgroup has grown since I started playing. When I first came to start playing we had a failry isolated group of players, very few of them participated or even read the forums, and even fewer had ever played against players from anywhere East of Winnipeg. What we have now is a group of players that is enamoured with the new standard format, we typically see local tournies with at least 2X what we saw regularly this time last year (one store more than another, but this is a location and timing thing). We also have players that are very cognizant of the worldwide UFS playgroup, players that they've met during travels with me, or that they have heard of from me, or that they have met while online now that they see the benefit of coming to the forums and participating or at least reading about what is going on. Our playgroup continues to grow, and it does so almost entirely due to the efforts of our Scout and the programs he runs and time he dedicates to helping new players, both acquire cards and enter at the right level of play.

I suppose I thought it would help to explain where I am coming from, 1) becuase Darklogos referenced me as being a fairly strong advocate of the boards, ffg, and the game in general, and 2) becuase I think it is easy to lose perspective on who/what different people are/experience granted we are separated by thousands of miles in many cases.

What I see right now is a game that is experienceing a 2nd infancy. The game is in the stages of having a second chance to attract new players, what with a fairly small standard card base, kits and product that is extremely effective at getting players enough cards to be competitive and for a very reasonable price, and with players that have a lot of energy coming back to the game and sharing their thoughts wholely and without abandon on the public forum.

What does this mean for us interested parties? It means very much what Vik has said. This is the time to dedicate to finding new players, and focusing on that aspect of the game. The store championships provide a very tangible target for players to test their worth, and this is the perfect time to promote the game in your area with and around this event.

This is also a very important time for players to interact with their store owners and fellow players. There is product on the shelf, whether it be new stuff, or lots of old stuff that just hasn't moved. Organize events! Have everyone toss in 10-15$ and run sealed drafts with the old stuff to support your store, have everyone discuss what standard decks they are playing and why or why not they are fun and exciting. Have players share their thoughts and ambitions on these forums. But most importantly, make sure you are having fun.

It's been said countless times here, and I think I like Ivy's and Goo's posts the best. UFS is more about the people than it is about the cards. We have a 'decent' sized player base, and many players that play becuase it is fun to be with other people and to challenge themselves with the cards as an interlude. We don't have big prizes, but I do see them growing, and largely in part to the efforts of pro-tour and others to explain to FFG what the players want at events and why. We don't have players that are here 'just' to win. We don't have childish or stupid cards or cartoons backing our decisions. And we have a fairly balanced game at the moment. There isn't 'one' card that everyone is always chasing after, there aren't many money cards in standard. This is a very unique card game, and that is what we have to sell it as to new players. A refreshing experience, fast paced but room for matches of wits, risk and reward, and players that are there to play as well as hang out after or before games whether it be to play a fighting game or two or just talk and have fun. This is what is unique about UFS, and this is why we will continue to play it, why I will continue to invest money and time to travelling and communicating on the forums, and why I will encourage others to do the same.

- dut

darklogos said:

Hey, I still accredit you with being one of the most voiced members of the forum, and for spurring-on intelligent discussion about creativity, not that worthless gupta

*he knows I love him (yes homo)*

Don't let it get you down dude. You do a good job, you have a lot of good opinions, and really, anybody who tells you your opinion is not AS VALUED as Vikram's or any other "top player" can pretty much eat a plate full of D (with a side helping of D).

Also, Hatman, what is this Scuba Shoop? It isn't the "spike her feline" fiasco is it?

MarcoPulleaux said:

...*applauds* and now I am enlightened.

Homme Chapeau said:

guitalex2008 said:

well i know that it's just a prime example of how the game is based on as of staple cards for certain symbols

Goo said:

You do realize what you just said there right? Staples for certain symbols? Thats basically saying there are no staples at all! Staples means everyone runs it in every deck. The only card that can say that right now is path of the master and thats only because for some reason they felt like leaking out one more card with the infinity symbol =/

I would rather take a game where some decks run certain cards based on what symbols they pick rather than a game where EVERY DECK runs the same cards.

*cough* Yu-Gi-Oh! *cough*

But seriously, if FFG can take 5 minutes from their busy schedule (no sarcasm here, I know they're up to the gills in work trying to keep going in the current economy) and actually look at this thread and/or give their UFS crew some more leeway in the decision-making, we could make this a better game. Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Better prize support - 4 Paid to Protect for a 20+ player area is obviously not enough, but guess what? It's not enough for a 4 player area, either, unless only 1 person there runs Earth , Fire , or Void (not likely, let me tell you). Either promos have to stop being so good that they're chase status ( Astrid** and Heir to the Storm would be the mold to follow here, they're only useful to certain decks, but they're very useful), or there has to be more of them (aka WE NEED MORE PROMOS ). I know, they're working on it, just wanted to keep reinforcing the fact that we need it. Also, stuff other than cards would be nice.

2. Tournament organizer software - Needs to be smarter. I've seen and handled it for a bit, and it's not the friendliest koala bear in the eucalyptus tree. I'm sure you'll find a couple guys in this very forum who can do the job (how about the guys who made the new UFS search engine?).

3. More support for ShadoWar - I don't giving mean more sets or promo cards than any other license (that's up to you, FFG); what I mean by more support is introducing the promo characters with bio's, continuing that Tablets of Gilgamesh story, etc. Give us some fluff to go with their crunch, in RPG terms.

That's about it, except for the meta-related issues (I want to have a reason to run Order and/or Water , and I'd like to see attacks with effects while face-up in the momentum, but cannot get there themselves, which would make Yi Shan** 's E more important, but that's just me...).

Well Amy gives Both Order a character without Fire and Water a character without life so thats a start. That is of course assuming that those are Amy's symbols and not a random card with a couple of off symbols.

Sol Badguy said:

oh so like yugioh and kingdom hearts...

kiit said:

Yeah and Naruto, Dragonball, Battle Spirits to name a few more.

BattleSpirits is a crapshoot way to make money.

Does anyone want to see a big UFS tournament with cash prizes? 50/30/10/10% break down in money? Even larger?

TripsEX said:

Personally I don't. I really don't enjoy the way the game becomes to play at that point. Too many of the players become focused on the money, and become dicks. At which point I'll probably the game like a hot potatoe. (Dropped Magic, avoided Vs & WoW for those exact reasons).

I think honestly we need to end this topic because we clearly have our own views on how we see things and it a good thing that we can come on here and discuss. At this point we have to see what happens because it's not making anything better by arguing. To me i talk about money only becaue i spend it and i hope there was a way to get it back so i would never lose out and that's probaly most people want from this game. we have to create a recycle system that everyone can benefit from so like trading old cards for new would be grand but how would it benefit for fantasy flight?. SO basically were sticking our necks out for this game and getting nothin in return unless we win, and for the newcomers who have no idea what to run and wanting a chance to make it have to deal with only a top 8 for a world tournament?

Goo said:

Forgive me... but what I'm reading above really leaves me feeling like some perspective has been lost.

Aren't we playing a game?

I mean, when I go out and buy Risk 2210, I've done it to play the game. I don't try and figure out how nuking the world from Orbit will generate financial compensation for me outside of the game.

I played Aye Dark Overlord last weekend. Loved it. I now want to own it. (I've been told to hold off and wait until Christmas) I just want to play the game.

I look at UFS the same way - I just want to play the game. The fact that I can travel to different places and maybe win stuff? That's bonus.

When talking to Steve, the executive producer of the game, his desire is that when they make UFS, they make a game people want to play and explore.

I stick my neck out to make the experience more enjoyable for myself and those who want to enjoy the game. (Note - better cleaner rules etc.)

Of course Antigoth, because that's the entire incentive to playing games: having fun. The entire concept of a game is generally TO have fun. People are having a very "but that boy over there got candy..." type of mentality, that they see one card game gives material possessions, things that cost hundreds of dollars given away for basically free, and what are we stuck with? MOAR CARDS! It's like a Christmas where you unwrap your presents expecting toys but find clothes instead. How are you supposed to enjoy what you already have and can't play with?

Simply put, people are being children.

Like you said, play the game because you enjoy the game. Don't give me this, "Well I do like the game, but..." bull. I have bought 1 Yi Shan starter, 1 Zi Mei starter, and have won I think 2 ShadoWar packs for free. ScubaDude and MegaGeese gave me a few commons from both sets.

That's all I've got. I own zero Tekken cards, and nothing holo from either Set 12 (except for some chars given to me by Jasco Games), and I don't have an official playgroup, yet I still play, still love the game, and never intend on quitting.

/thread

Goo said:

I'm on the same page as Goo.

If there was a way to get your money back that you put into the game, it wouldn't turn out to be such a financial waste. They don't have to put up cash prizes. Instead, continue to give out electronics like STG did in the past and boost up the promos given out at events.

I spend $300 to go to Gencon. How much did I get back? Excluding the binder I got for top 4 in Team Worlds and the earthmunnies we made from CoolStuffInc and Toad+Troll, it would have been a complete financial waste. That $300 could pay my gas for two to three months. That $300 can pay off many debts. That $300 can buy my newborn food for three months.

We travel out to FFGs event, they reward us with utter crap, and expect us to come back.

Chubbs said it the best.
"Prize support is like comfort food."

I feel bad for those who spent loads of money traveling to an event and not getting adequately rewarded.

Jihan and Shane have a very valid point. I have spend at least 10.000 dollars on UFS, whether that's on cards, travel expenses, prize support, so on and so forth. Because I have been somewhat successful I have won some of that back (in the form of boxes, promos, binders full of sets, etc.) but not enough to where it's been worth it. The fact that NO back market exists for this game because of the absolute death of Legacy is really disheartening, if there was an actual Legacy event that would have a serious prize (maybe not a character but a designed attack or foundation or something), suddenly the cost of UFS would be much cheaper for me. Even then, winning a character is a pretty good compensatory package, however short of that as Shane said the Top 8 prize pools have become terrible of late.

I don't want a money game, I just want a game that cares about the investment you make into it, and so far that is not the case. And I have always been about fun but frankly yes, for serious tournament players its defintiely disappointing. Is that so unreasonable?

Christ, I'm done posting in these threads. The fact that the first 3 threads I clicked on in a row are threads of bitching ABOUT THE EXACT SAME THING goes to show how pathetic things have become for certain individuals.

All I cane say, Vik, is that you ought to discuss Legacy with Hata. Legacy, in my opinion, is for fun (as is the rest of this game), and should only have prize support in the form of boosters, promos, playmats, art posters, etc etc, but nothing much more than that. If you disagree, and want a BAMF of a prize, I'd suggest talking to the higher-ups and see what they can tell you.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Yes the game is about fun. The game right now IS fun. But I didn't spend three weeks literally working out the format in my head (or on paper/cardboard) just because it is fun. I did that because I knew that if I won SAS I would jumpstart my entire collection again, from scratch, for exactly 20 dollars. Those binders and the Stand Offs in addition to the other cool prizes were WORTH it. That's all I want, and I think that's all Shane and Jihan - both remarkably talented players and deckbuilders who have had great success - want as well.

MarcoPulleaux said:

I will hold you to this, sir.

VikramS said:

Wow, you spent 10 grand? ****

You do speak truth. The death of legacy is ind33d disheartening. Whenever you have a game that rotates sets, your all-access format needs to be a large portion of the game. Not near half, but still a decent portion. Raw Deal was a fine example of this with afterburn and all-axxess. They seemed to promote both formats better than any other game.

We can talk about how great of a format legacy is, but that's quite the other topic.

I do not want a money game either, Vik. I have stated before that I do not like games that offer cash prizes, despite however many players they attract. As with you, I want a game that gives back what you give into it, and yes, so far that isn't the case.

VikramS said:

VikramS said:

You got me, sir.

Shaneth said:

Honestly, if FFG starts doing that I'll be happy for you guys, but something's always going to be lacking on that side of the debate for me, so I'l abstain from talking about it. Even if FFG supported us, we'd have fail events not because of our team name, but because of something I'm not exactly comfortable discussing at the moment because it's a large accusation and a lot of people will take it the wrong way and not see the point I'd be trying to make.

PM me, sir. I'd be happy to lend an ear.

Shaneth said:

Done.