MarcoPulleaux said:

Most people play because it's a good game. But prize support keeps people interested year round and showing up for events. It's the differance between someone showing up once a month to play vs someone showing up to every event. I don't think anyone is asking for cash prizes, $10k events, or $100 promos, but something better then the rotated out promo cards we have been getting.

I understand what you are saying MP, but the reality is that prize support in any game is intregal to keeping the proverbial blood running in it's veins. To answer you though, I do enjoy this game. Unto the topic.....

I for one am in a playgroup that has declared this game dead. Sort of sucks to be on the receiving end of the decline vs. the rise, but this **** happens. Allow me to address the situation a little bit better. With the new rotation a couple of months back, alot of the players in my play group saw a problem. The rotation to me was a clean slate, but for some it was a nightmare. One person even got on the threads and went on a crusade. I need not have to remind you folks of this as it is redundant for me to bring it up. Lets just leave it to doomsday speak. Other factors have lead to a discouraging atmosphere. For one of our players, he stated that there are too many tricks that are coming back from the good old days of UFS that led to NPE in the start of UFS. Others look to bad experiances from games past in which the same decision was made only leading to their past game falling apart. If you consider that, than you can understand their mistrust, after all, it is in past history that we learn from and if the situation dictates a bad gut feeling, their may be a chance that failure is evident. This has led our scout to sit back and try to assess things to see if this game still stands a chance in Maryland. Not getting prize support in despite all the things my scout did before he decided to whether the storm, did not help either.

Now that is the Maryland situation and I will more than likely be playing UFS in Hanover, PA when work allows it. While I said that the rotaion rocked, I am left wondering if this was thought out and allow me to explain. Steve Horvath and James Hata both knew what will happen once they announced the rotation. Hell, he even mentioned it in the SToG that came after that huge announcement. I feel that this may have not been thought out like Horvath says. If so, than there would not have been complaints about prize support still having 4-star shurikens on them. That should have been addressed promptly before rotaion announcment was made and dealt with. It is true that a transition like this would have some problems to incur, but with these sort of things happening in other games, one would think that FFG would have been on the ball with that. I am almost willing to think that the rotation would have been better left for when Quest of Souls was about to release in order to insure a smooth transition and fix the Prize Support on all levels of play.

Which brings me to Prize Support. We were told that when FFG got UFS that there were more chances of doing big things for UFS in FFG. In fact I do belive Christian, the head honcho was looking forward to having this property. I will remind you that the person who stated that was Steve Horvath himself. Yet for all the big things that was going to be done, there still seems to be lack of satisfaction on some levels of the game. Why is it that Prize support is lacking? Were we not told that with FFG UFS would bloom? Lack of Prize support or sorry ass Prize support is something that FFG needs to ******* work on in UFS. IF STG was able to pull off half the **** that they did in the past, full playsets, electronics, etc. than why can't FFG? Why did prize support at Worlds 2009 for singles suck? Was regional PS that great? And what the **** happened with the Dinner of Champions? Well I can complain but I feel that a solution is needed. Other problems from FFG? Oh yeah, put your money were your mouth is FFG/Horvath. Yep I am calling him out and don't defend him. We know he does not come to the forums anymore. Maybe he will keep his word on that. For the future though, just in case you break your word, just do what you need to ******* do and don't make any pledges, promises, or anything else. We know you have to go through Christian anyways, so don't tell us anything until it is 100% certain.

This thread is a complete disappointment. Not because people haven't posted completely valid points; they definitely have and for the most part I agree with them. However, not a single one of you, NOT a single ONE, has offered any potential solutions! What is the point of venting your frustration, knowing that FFG doesn't give a flying **** about these boards?

Do you know what I have been doing since I started playing again? I have talked to Steve Horvath on the phone at least twice a week and online at least once a day trying to get things going on a lot of different fronts. I'm talking prize support, better OP organization, real and effective tournament software, website expansion, player base expansion, seriously every **** thing I can think of. I've also talked to James once a week on a lot of the same issues.

If you seriously want something to change, pick up the **** phone and MAKE it happen. Everyone who has a dead base, call FFG and talk to these guys and see how they can help you. If you want better prize support, get everyone you know to call FFG and tell them directly in NO uncertain terms what is needed. If you're looking for a better tournament structure, organize a big one yourself! Why the hell not? You can do it without sanction if you want, set a fair cost and put it toward packs and boxes and go from there. Maybe that will jump start the game around where you live. And certainly if you talk to Steve, he WILL be willing to help you in any way he can. This I know.

My point is, fine the game has a lot of problems. You know what? It also has a lot of good stuff going for it right now. As I said, I agree with a lot of the complaints, I really do. So much so, that I walked away from this game - that has been personally VERY good to me - and simply told myself that if they ever fixed the cards that would be enough for me. Well they did, in a big way, and so I came back. I'm going to scout again, and become a playtester, and already I'm back in the competitive swing and doing everything I possibly can to save and expand our base.

Get on the horn, every day if you have to, and DO something about it! No matter where you live, no matter what you do. In light of this thread, I have been trying to use whatever connections I can to get some real time with Christian Petersen, the CEO of FFG. If I do, I will lay out everything I can to him directly, address as many of these concerns as I can and give my own suggestions on how to improve this game simply and at little cost. I encourage EVERYONE on these boards to do the same type of thing. That is the only way that any of these issues will be resolved.

While I understand yer point Vik here's the problem:

The average player (and don't be modest, yer part of the UFS "elite") does not have the clout with your lord and saviors James Hata and Steve Horvath that folks like you, Jay, Oofs House, Olexa and co have. I would bet you a playset of Eye of the Tigers that they could give two ***** about what folks like myself have to say, which I think is mainly the reason they don't actually look at these boards.

I could call them (assuming I wanted to pay long distance charges) and point out the shear idiocy that they have displayed since this rotation happened, bring up all the valid points and complaints made by the folks on this board, and then prolly get hung up on. The fact they let all the garbage that happened since they took over the game from Cutting Edge on happen for as long as it did showed me the shear apathy they possess towards this game.

The fact that (regardless of what they say) the aftermath of the rotation showed that it was a spurr of the moment, desperation effort to bail out a sinking ship. Don't believe me? Look at the evidence:

• The Fight Night kit: They released this how close to the rotation? Now I know that FFG doesn't care about it's consumers, but I don't think even they would be that dumb to release a block 3 kit so close to the so called planned rotation.
• Prize Support: Yes it's always sucked, but the fact that groups were getting nothing but block 3 crap for block 4 tournaments should show folks something. The fact that they still had a bunch of block 3 stuff just piled up and ready to ship out as continued prize support.

If Steve Horvath personally invited ME of all people to stay in touch with him

Trust me, he will most certainly give you, and anybody else, the time of day to talk to him about some potential solutions.

Stop being lazy and go do stuff.

VikramS said:

1) Organization - A united base is a strong base. If everyone is on the same page, then we can hammer FFG, and the boards help for that.
2) Venting - You said it, we all know it. FFG doesn't read these boards, so if we decide to be downright insulting it doesn't matter. Better to vent here than when directly addressing the company.
3) Because we're tired of having to come up with solutions without an inkling of effort shown by the company.

VikramS said:

You have direct access to Steve Horvath, to the point where he will answer if he sees Vikram Sareem on the e-mail/call ID. If he sees Guillaume Favreau, he's not gonna care much for my feedback. I've never won anything, nor am I known under that name. Anything remotely resembling Hatman, I've an inkling of what he's going to do to said feedback from the little I've talked to Jonathan Ledezma back in 2008 (by the way, he was the last FFG staff member to visit Canada). Trust me, it is not pretty. Especially not after the shoop to end all shoops involving a certain FFG staff member and a person you know QUITE well.

VikramS said:

Here is the problem - This YOU know. Some of us do not have that luxury. I know your answer - You haven't tried. Personally, no - I don't organize the tournaments. I just keep up with the news and get disappointed with each single news that comes out. I couldn't organize **** to save my life. It doesn't help that I've the self-esteem of a 16 year old emokid that gets his daily beatings.

You have personally met, and speak with regularity, Steve Horvath and James Hata. I haven't - lots of players haven't. You are asking players to have blind faith in a company that has done nothing to warrant our believing in them because of your personal experiences. I'll say what I've said before - Anyone who says to trust in the people because of their personal experiences needs to take a step back and consider the viewpoints of those who have never met these people. I've never met James Hata. I've never met Steve Horvath. I likely never will due to the fact that the Canadian Nationals are not important enough for them to attend and Gen Con happens at a time that I simply cannot leave home. Why should I trust these people whom I've never met and only communication I have with is through a monthly State of the Game? I shouldn't. All that's left is the company, and my dealings with it haven't been satisfactory.

VikramS said:

Last time I was part of a playtesting group, I quickly realized nobody gave a **** on the company side. Why should this be any different?

VikramS said:

1) I do not have the information to do such a thing, nor the contacts. The fact that I don't live in the United States and do not have the disposable income to attend most large-scale tournaments means I'm extremely non-influential in this entire thing. Most of you people's opinions taken individually > Mine, no matter how well I present my point.

2) You noted you quit the game for a while. You have recently come back with renewed hope for the game, with revitalized energy, with a fiery zeal. Vik, you gotta understand this - my fire is gone. I stayed behind, I figured the game was still fun somewhat, but the general apathy of the company (you have to be apathetic to write what was written on the Montreal Regionals banner - no self-respecting company should ever have to do that), alongside a community that simply did not give a **** (seriously, two things destroyed my desire to do anything for this game, one a few months ago, the other early last year). My energy levels and level of attention for the game has dropped to absolute **** levels, Vik. I CAN'T keep up with what you're asking of me - I don't have the resources, I don't have the energy, and I especially don't have the influence to even make a small difference.

B-Rad said:

They don't look at the boards for the same reason a lot of companies tend to ignore their boards - Internet forums are a cesspool of uselessness.

Also, you forgot 'goth. While he'll deny he has "clout", he does know the guys personally and more importantly how to contact them directly. They will also take his feedback seriously, which is something I can't say for some of us.

Then again, in my case... you reap what you sow. I knew fully well what would happen, yet I did it anyway. It's a good thing I don't matter though. I'll continue being the court jester - at least I bring entertainment.

Okay, fair enough. Yes, I realize who I am with context to this game, and yes I do have better access than most. However, I also know people who DON'T have that kind of access who have called FFG and gotten with Steve and gotten somewhere.

Do I wish FFG gave a ****, when they so clearly don't? Yes, I do. Hence, my idea of talking to the CEO directly and trying to get him involved in a positive way. Maybe it's a long shot and maybe it won't accomplish anythiing, but I will at least try.

Hatman, I get what you are saying, I do. I don't blame you one iota for how you feel. There is nothing I can say that will improve that, so I won't try. I will say, though, that my zeal will cover both of us for now, that much I promise you.

Brad, I'm telling you I will pay for the **** call myself if you want, but DON'T knock it till you've tried it. You WON'T get hung up on. You might have to leave a message once or twice, but you will get called back. And you WILL be able to get something done. How much and to what extent, I don't know, but Steve Horvath is not a bad guy, and he will talk the time to listen to anyone if he can give it. I have seen evidence of this numerous times, from people locally who have not had big success but just wanted his ear for a bit.

James? He's my friend and I still think he's a ******, so different story. I certainly am not trying to tell anyone there are saviours. However, they are available, they do listen more than you would think, and they definitely have a personal vested interest in saving this game.

Alright, I'll go a step further. All of you who have complaints, email me direct and specifc problems that you have or have had, and I will schedule as much time as I can with Steve and bring them up one by one all by myself if I have to. That solves the call cost/access issue for you all. No excuses. If you are serious about making your voice heard, I am willing to give you the forum to address it if you aren't willing or able to do it yourself, deal?

Come on foks, seriously all I am asking is meet me halfway, and I vow to take it from there as best as I can.

Goo said:

I will have to echo the respect element carrying a lot of weight. Vik. Go through my posts and you will see lots of demand for public tech. You will see a lot of the things you do now. Here is the difference. No one gives a crap what I say. Period. You can say something and people will talk about it. I started a thread on Nina when she came out. It fizzled fast. I did one on Christie and it died fast. I'm doing one Omar and I got one post from Nintendo Man. Point blank if your not respected or acknowledge no one really cares about what you say. As much as Dut and other defend it the community is crap. The fact that you can character assault another player on these boards without consequence is proof of that. I don't know what you did to earn respect but that has opened doors that the rest can't follow. What did it take for actual serious public discussion was A. You comming back to the game and B. A podcast indicating that the forums are the worst place to talk tech.

Being a new scout and having backgrounds running tournies and playing multiple games this games prize support and backing sucks. The moment I found out I had to pay for support it almost made me quit. A prerelease is a promotion event. You want people to get hype about your new set. You don't want them yawning at promos.

The legacy support and how it is run in this game in comparred to other games I played with block standards is crap as well. To fix legacy would mean they would have to hyper ban a lot of cards and that isn't going to happen. To get folks to make legacy a viable format it has to earn a character card at nationals as well. Above all there has to be no sandbaging. One main character you register with and that's it. But that's not going to happen.

I had prize support returned back to FFG for 3 months in a row due to the fact they sent it through US postal instead of UPS. The mailman arrives before the shop opens and the store has no mailbox because it is in a strip mall. It took 3 months for them to talk to me and ask what was going on. When I asked for other options I got no email returned. Other games would have emailed me the first time it was returned. Wizkids emailed me and notified me if their was going to be delays with my prize support of if it was on its way. Not so with FFG. Heck I've had an easier time with AEG running games then FFG. Universal prize support is something that most games do naturally. For it to take this long for them to get to standardized is rather sad. In all honesty the real issue with prize support and the kits is that they are trying to clean out storage space. Holding onto inventory that will not move is stupid. Only thing you can do is throw it away or recycle it. So they are throwing it at us when we are doing them the favor. Wizkids did this with flashback months and sent out all the crap figures we had 15 copies off.

As a scout i should have an email link to active people that can at least respond to me in 2 to 3 biz days. I've emailed Hata twice and got no response. I refuse to email him again. If he is busy I understand but if he is to busy then he shouldn't be a point of contact for scouts. I was able to quickly touch base with a sales rep. He responded to me same day. Thing that hits me as good and bad is this. If I want to spend money I can talk to ffg. Note if I spend "money" I can talk to FFG.

If the people running the games aren't going to surf the boards regularlly. This lets me know they don't care about customer feedback. They also recognize that their own website is not a healthy means of getting customer feedback, broken issues with the meta, and other quality of health issues. That is bad. Wizkids monitored both hcrealms and their own site when it came to heroclix. But everyone knew that serious feedback issues needed to be posted on the Wizkids boards because they actually read the forums. They did avoid some strong questions. They answered easy questions. But when they needed to do it they shot straight to the community. With FFG the fight night kit was a slap to the face of most players. There is no way for them to do right and not loose massive amounts of money on the affair. This lets us know that the nuke button may have been talked about before Gencon but the longterm plan to nuke was not in place. The follow through of the Gencon has been commented on by a bunch of people.

Solutions

FREAKING GET A FREAKING EDIT BUTTON ON THIS FREAKING SITE! HOW HARD IS THAT IF YOU HAVE THE CRAPY URL EDIT BULL CRAP COMMAND!

First off their needs to be some boundaries that have to be put in place when it comes to Game development and vision. Control in the pipe needs to not pass a certain place. The return of control is going to be sick and hit hard. Acrobatics is showing that throw decks and damage only decks are in for a rough fight. Damage needs to be rewarded from combo's more so then base abilities. This is going on but there are to many cards that hit hard with little setup. Lion Slayer hits way harder then it should. I digress. But a public statement of what Hata plans to do from Game Development is essential. This gives us a guideline of what really is broke and what is not.

The second thing that has to be done is a revision of what people actually value in prize support and what they don't care about. Store Champion plaques may not matter much to most people. Polling and asking random question let people at least see that FFG gives a crap.

Hire a freaking community rep. If Steve is to busy and doesn't like the boards then there needs to be a community rep to convey information and to properly guage the community.

Make character promos stackables friendly and not main character friendly.

Any major card or meta dominating card either needs to A. Be introduced into Prize support for a period of 2-3 months or B. Banned. POTM I'm looking at you.

Set promos that are foundations or assets should not buff or boost cards outside of that set EVER!

The game needs more product placement in comics and gaming mags.

Offer a play set of the next set for the champion of the singles and teams of each major tournament. That makes it all fair and the complaints about prize support stops. Not only that it doesn't turn the champions into a money/prize game while giving something cool out.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

So here are my non-flaming character assualting ideas. Let them be passed by like every other serious post I have.

Homme Chapeau said:

[Fact Check]

FFG actually has an employee who works remotely for them in Toronto.
Jeremy Stromberg from FFG attended a Canadian Convention in may of 2009.

The Scuba Shoop was win, and earned you many props within the FFG offices.

[/Fact Check]

Homme Chapeau said:

Because based on our conversations we've had, you PT'd with STG, not FFG. You're smeering FFG with the experience you had with a different company.

So right now you're saying "Because I don't like Oranges, I'm not going to like apples."

Homme Chapeau said:

Actually - FFG has a sense of humor. Most of the employees have a fantastic sense of humor, especially those in the printing / graphic arts department. Note section 4.8 of the AGR. It's a joke, and they find the humor in it.

People look at FFG as "Oh, we are t3h serious." UFS is supposed to be a game that people play for fun & for the love of the game. FFG is a bunch of fun people who want to have a good time, and run the business in such a way that it can stay in business. Dealing with uberseriously people who like to wail, gnash teeth, and generally b&c tends to remove a lot of the fun.

Homme Chapeau said:

Thanks. I appreciate that view. Let me share a little story of how I managed to get FFG's ear... it actually happened through a couple of instances.

First was when the FFG takeover was announced. People were wailing and gnashing their teeth. Rather then speculate, or succumb to the rash conjecture that was going on, I emailed FFG. I ask them a pile of the questions that the community was asking. I received a prompt reply, with what questions they could answer, answered. I accepted what information I was given, and posted it on TCO, as articles / breaking news stories so it wouldn't get burried in the forums. (Since the STG forums were about to go away anyway.)

Then they announced that Ledezma was doing what he was going to be doing. I waited until he was up in Minny, and then I called the FFG offices. I informed him that I was a scout from Winnipeg, and I asked if I could have 15 minutes of his time, just to share some stuff he needed to know.

I shared a number of problems that the community was having at the time. I forewarned him of a number of upcoming challenges that he faced, and gave him a list of "Hear me out, don't answer me now, if you find this useful, here's my contact information, stay in touch." I did this on my own dime, and I think the 15 minutes ran closer to 45 minutes to an hour by the time we were done.

Shortly there after he took me up on my offer to moderate the forums, and love or hate what I did, I did exactly what I promised him I would do.

When Paul took over for Jonathan, not only did I have Jon's good word, but I did the exact same thing. Gave him a list of "Here are your challenges that you're going to have to face, and here are some up coming things that aren't issues now, but will be."

<Insert personal information about Antigoth, that I'm not sure anyone actually cares about.>

I tend to collect certain sentimental emails that have been sent to me over the years in appreciation of the things that I've done. The day that Paul gave his notice to FFG, he sent me one of those emails that I've kept to this day, thanking me, and appriciating the help I had given him."

</Insert personal information about Antigoth, that I'm not sure anyone actually cares about.>

At the end of the day, FFG will listen to what I give them for the following reasons:

• If I'm told something that I'm not to repeat, I don't.
• I accept that they're not trying to lie to me. They know what they know, and will tell me what they can.
• If I disagree with something they've done, I email whoever is appropriate, and let them know how I feel about it. Most people will note I tend not to air complaints or grievances in the forums. I send professionally written communications, giving explanations for why I'll disagree with something. At the same time, I also understand that Steve has a vision for what he wants UFS to be, and where he sees UFS going. While I may disagree with something, I know that if Steve or James feels a certain way, it's their game at the end of the day, and I'm not going to change that. I can only hope to influence some of their decisions in a positive fashion.
• At the end of the day, if I disagree with something, more often then not if I take the time to ask why, they'll give me that why. With the why I'm usually content, as I can typically bring it back here, and share that information when I can.
• I have been understanding of what they're going through, and the limitations of what they have professionally. While people sarcastically refer to James as "The Savior" of UFS, I just look at him as a guy who's taken on a really tough job. [The following sentence has humour that some people get, while a few people don't. If you don't get the humour, don't sweat it, and move onto the next bullet point. ] The only card I've had Hata autograph for me is Trapped in a Nightmare
• When I need to contact James to work out rulings or other such nonsense, if he says "Not now, meeting." I patiently wait for him to get back to me.
  If he doesn't, I wait until much later in the day, or the next day, and broach it again. When he's on vacation, or needing not to think about UFS, I give him that space, and accept that he needs a life, even though UFS is like a 12-16 hour a day job.
• I'm patient. As an example, because of some stuff around Gencon, we didn't get prize support for September. I contacted FFG, they said they'd send it out. October's Prize support showed up, our store championship kit showed up, still no September prize support. (Imagine no Jin's and no Astrids) When it came time to sanction November's support, I contacted the sanctioning folks, and they've said they have thrown September's support in the same envelope as Novembers. I accept that. If for whatever reason it's not in November's Envelope, I'll contact them again at that time, and continue to work it until finally my players have Jin's and Astrid's. Stuff like this has happened to me and my playgroup numerous times over the last three years. When it's happened to other shops in the area, who have newer scouts, I've sat with them and explained what steps they need to take to get it resolved.
  Before someone jumps on my last paragraph, and goes "SEE!!!! They can't be trusted, it keeps happening." Why am I so patient? It happened to me when I used to deal with WOTC. It happened when I dealt with Thunder Castle Games. It happened when I was dealing with White Wolf. It happened when I was dealing with Comic Images. Doesn't that mean that it's happened with every game, and every company I've ever run events for? Yep. This is the gaming industry, it's all a bunch of underpaid people, doing a job that they love, working in an industry that they love. Doing a job for such a low sum of money, I couldn't fathom supporting myself or a family on that wage. It also means that they're human, and they make mistakes.
• When I have it available, I'm willing to sacrifice my own time and money to do what I can to try and make this game more enjoyable. They recognize I'm willing to bust my butt to try and make stuff happen.

They can listen.
They do listen.

They will listen to anyone, no matter what all of the conspiracy therorists say.

If you want them to pay attention to you, ensure that you're presenting your message in a fashion that is professional, and is not just ranting and raving.

Remember that they are human beings, who have feelings too, and just because you've bought a booster pack (or booster box) (or bought singles off of some website) (or borrowed your friends cards), it doesn't entitle you to disrespect the people on the other end. I've seen some of the stuff that has been sent, and some of the vitrolic hate that has been sent, and it's really not fair, no matter how entitled the person feels.

Lastly - if you expect them to listen to you, be prepared to do the same. Even if it's not what you want to hear.

That's well and good if you could talk to them. I only have the contact info from the scout page. That's it. Nothing more. I don't get responses from there. What am I to do other then just walk away from the situation altoghter? I mean they have done a real good job of not helping those on their side.

darklogos said:

A short response to this, and then I'll work on a longer response to your previous post.

Scroll down to the very bottom of the page that you're currently reading.

In a number of links along the very bottom of the page you will see:


© 2009 Fantasy Flight Games. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS

For electronic submissions you can click on the User Support Link.

Alternatively under Contact, you will find the phone# for FFG. I have personally used both of those tabs at different times.

Antigoth said:

Props I shouldn't have gotten, because I didn't come up with it. No, I will not reveal who asked me to do it.

Also, cool. I'm not exactly familiar with their approach - suffice it to say I don't know who handles what at FFG so I tend to look at the UFS section as 3 guys that get help from time to time - the standard two, and currently Rick Nauertz (and I apologize if I massacred his name). My statement doesn't stand, I'd rescind it but seriously you know how I do and how I tend to confuse "UFS related people" with "FFG". Not the same group guize.

Antigoth said:

Good point - but still, being soured on the experience once, even if it's under different circumstances, can leave you wary of the activity. Plus I'm probably not what they're looking for as a PTer anyway - Personally, I'd want players who can spot the broken stuff, and not those who ignore it.

Antigoth said:

That's the thing I've been trying to stress : I've never met them. I don't normally have to deal with them because the scout isn't me, and I do not work at the store that hosts the events. Whether they have a sense of humor or not is not a known quantity for me. All I know from my side is that someone took Target X seriously, which is probably one of the worst things you can do ever.

Antigoth said:

By the by, you don't get enough props for that even though I never really read the whole deal.

Antigoth said:

I'll comment on them one by one because they deserve to be commented on one by one.

Antigoth said:

The VERY few times I've contacted FFG (when Paul was there), I've been excessively careful about this. Perhaps too much so - you probably remember the "I was told this when I e-mailed Paul but wasn't sure if I could post it." posts I made a while back.

Antigoth said:

I think the biggest problem I have right now is that I've literally nothing to ask that they can answer. Prize support would be a great topic to discuss but someone's gotten to them before I did, and I have no real new ideas on that. So... yeah. I don't recall saying FFG lied/lies - they're a gaming company, it's not in their best interests to do so. They can get misinterpreted sometimes, they can have insufficient communication in my opinion (ze website needs to be utilised moar! - but then again creating content for UFS is hard.)

Antigoth said:

Antigoth said:

I personally would have chosen Abducted, but that's just me. Alternate art for that would be the best thing evar.

Antigoth said:

I'm not asking for James to be overworked (it doesn't help that UFS is not the only thing on his plate, and yes that still surprises people) for my or anyone else's sake, but again - You can ask James Hata directly. I don't have that luxury nor the moral authority to ask James direct questions. You're a Rules Arbiter and someone who volunteers for writing rules documents and compiling rulings. You have business with James, the rest of the playerbase who do not know him? Most likely not. Me? I'd probably go "zomg why am I talking to this guy it is James Hata he has better stuff to do than listen to me say something."

Antigoth said:

I already touched on this earlier, but yeah, you do volunteer. Thing is, time I have, money I don't, and as I've said in the post, positive energy I have even less (hell I even started to post less what is wrong with me). I could do things with my time, but with zero energy and motivation? (Okay, the Fight Life Recruitment Kit may bring people back to the fold and considering I broke the news to my playgroup I did something positive but that took zero effort) Not easy - my English ain't so good, my shoop skillz aren't exactly anything to write home about and to be honest, the only thing I could contribute is not something they'd want on their website.

Antigoth said:

Agreed on the first two, not so much on the last one but not for the reason you or anyone else may think. For one party to listen, the other has to have something to say. BLUH BLARG is not something.

Antigoth said:

You know me, the only thing I don't want to hear from FFG is "UFS is dead."

darklogos said:

First and foremost, I want to let you know that *personally* I do "give a crap" about what you say. You are well spoken (written), for the most part have been postiive, and have many of the same goals and desires towards UFS that I do. While I have not personally contributed to your tech discussions, it's simply because I'm not in a space to contribute tech at this time. (I've been spending my time on some stuff other then UFS lately (house renos, convention organization, work, etc.))

The rest I'm not going to touch on, because I share similar feelings on a number of those subjects. However where I differ is that some folks are trying. It takes time to build a community that has solid online tech talk.

darklogos said:

Paying for support really is only the major events. The only "cost" to a pre-release kit is the product. Where we are, the costs of the kits, are cheaper then ordering the product once it's released.

Re: The "Yawning" At Promos - Which pre-release kits were you unhappy with? Because the most recent one - Tekken - was solid, and previously we had the mats included which my players loved.

darklogos said:

Please note - Steve's opinion on prize support is that "we don't want to have to bribe people to play the game. We would rather have a game that people come to play because they enjoy it." I can see where they come from, and with my background of Highlander and Raw Deal where the winner of the tournament got an exclusive promo card, and then there were some promos for showing up, and otherwise the tournament is free, this all works for me. <My Opinion>

There is a general consensus that a deeper banned list is needed for Legacy. Where it breaks down is coming to the consensus on the banned list. I get the feeling that FFG will allow players to drive a banned list. (I'm a player, and by the end of the Calendar year I want to have a separate banned list for legacy. And my initial discussions with FFG have been positive regarding this.)

Where those talks break down is as follows:

• What comes off the banned list that is currently banned?
• What goes on the list?
• My proposed idea of having a rolling banned list where cards can come on and off over six month periods seems to have gained little tractions which is disappointing to me.

Ultimately - it appears the majority of players want a separate banned list for legacy. Where we're going to have the challenge is coming to the consensus of what should and should not be banned. I apologize, but while I feel like I could railroad this through sooner then later, I don't have the time to devote to that in the immediate future. Seriously, work with Vik, I get the feeling you two could make a lot happen.

Regarding Sandbagging - I have to agree with you that it's not going to happen. To enforce that it would require a major change to the game rules. Something that would inherently have to be enforced over both Standard and Legacy, otherwise you start running into massive issues. Forgive me for not going into massive details, but I don't personally feel that change would be healthy.

Regarding getting a Character for Legacy - Steve has stated that they want to see at least 50 players in an event for it to count towards a character card. Sadly Legacy this year would have come no where close. Additionally with Teams and Standard, the time to properly run a full Legacy worlds for a card, would make the logistics nearly impossible to have it all happen in one weekend. That being said - Both James and Steve have said that "A card for Legacy is not going to happen." In the meantime, they haven't outright said no to the concept of the legacy champ getting to help design a card in a regular set. While it's not immortality, getting to point to and say "I designed that" is still a pretty freaking cool compromise.

<Note my earlier post where I stated - accept it, and move on. I've accepted that for the foreseeable future they won't give a championship card away for legacy. Trying to find a compromise on the other hand in my world is part of moving on. <I'm going to move on for brevity sake, as there is actually a pile more I could write about this.>

darklogos said:

For what it's worth - you've had a different experience with Wizkids then we did locally with our shop.

Additionally for us - UPS is a hatefilled thing that causes us nothing but grief. The switch to the USPS was the best thing for us for prize support, and has actually meant that we're getting consistent prize support.

Regarding the expectation that they would email you about the returned support, just notes from my end:

1. I'm not used to companies reaching out to check that when prize support is returned. Again, you had a better experience with Wizkids then I've ever heard before.
2. FFG has not had the same person handling support for more then 3 months at a time over the last year. We've gone through Paul B, Esther, James, (in addition to his other duties), Scott (who has now been moved to handling the Warhammer LCG launch), and now there's a new guy in place handling it. I think it's a guy named Justin. (Sorry Justin if you're reading this, and I've remember who it is incorrectly.) At one point I know I had Jeremy putting together a prize support kit for me.
3. I think you're confusing the Fight Night kits with Prize Support. Fight Night Kits are not regular prize support. They can be ordered and outright sold to a single player, or they can be used to enhance the prize support given out.
4. The prize support is in flux. There were a number of mistakes made by various staffers at STG [the former owners of UFS], and FFG is trying to find a way to make prize support works that is both affordable [iE they can keep doing it for a while], and that the players will find is worth their while. Finding that balance and compromise is not easy, and will continue to be a work in progress.

Remember how earlier I mentioned something about "poorly paying... doing it for the love of the industry..." in regards to jobs. Try finding someone who is good at running your prize support, that is best left there, and not moved to a different spot within the company? It's not easy. And I've seen many companies struggle with the prize support issue.

darklogos said:

You should, and you do. If they don't respond to your email, try calling FFG directly. Please note, they have updated the email address to Organized Play Support Team . Could they have updated this sooner? Yes. Also, You're right Hata shouldn't be the point of contact for scouts. Actually he isn't, and hasn't been for a while (Read: Many many months). They failed to update the website correctly. Keeping in mind, FFG has always said "If you have an issue, call us."

darklogos said:

Here's where we get to part of the problem.
UFS isn't big enough to be able to afford an employee who can spend all day reading the forums.
As someone who has moderated these, and is currently slacking at his volunteer duties as a rules arbiter, I can tell you that it's a full time job.

Currently here is your UFS Staff:

Steve Horvath - Executive Producer of UFS. However he is also the VP of Marketing for all of FFG. Guess which of the two positions takes precidence.

James Hata - Designer UFS, Call of Cthulhu, Penny Arcade, and whatever else gets thrown his way in a day.

That's it. That's the entire staff dedicated to UFS.

In a perfect world, they need:

Steve's Job split into two, EP & VPM.
James's Job needs to be split into multiple parts as well.
Then you need a full time rules person.
Then someone to monitor the forums.
Then you need a community relations person to handle prize support, and OP, and store issues.
Then you need an additional minion, because everyone needs a minion.

At this time the money isn't there for that. As UFS grows, and sales grow, it will permit additional staff being hired. At the end of the day, if FFG hadn't taken on UFS, it would have died already under STG. While this might not be perfect, and there is constant "growing pains" - FFG wants to keep UFS going, James wants to keep UFS going. (There's some enlightened self interest there) Eventually there will be more staff. Not tomorrow. Not next month. Probably not through the first two quarters of 2010. But the general idea is to have UFS be a game that goes for many many years.

RE: Nuke Button at Gencon & Fight Night Kit.

There was never a plan to press the Nuke button Prior to Gencon.

The decision to hit the Nuke button was decided Thursday Night, rolling into Friday Morning. Friday Morning, Steve pulled me aside and said "I need you to listen to this, and the reasons, before you object." And then told me about deciding to press the nuke. While you say "It makes the Fight Night kits worthless." Steve's response is If they didn't do what they did, "UFS would have been dead in six month, and what would those Fight Night Kits have been worth then?"

I get that people are bothered by this. But I truly believe that the announcement at Gencon was a reaction to the poor turnout, and a realization that no matter how unpopular it may be, it was the right time for the tough love. The Fight Night kits really were designed for "Hey... new player, for $50 here's a great way to start getting yourself established in UFS."

Rewinding back to "FFG needs to give more love to their forums."

Since the days of STG, the forums have been a cesspool. Honestly, they're the best now that they've ever been. (Think about that... )
STG & FFG both literally got complaints that because of what's on the forums, it has driven stores to not even bother to carry UFS.

FFG's philosophy however is one that does not promote censorship. So that is why they allow people to come here and say whatever they want.

However at the same time, they are not going to actively participate in the forums. (And from a time intensive perspective, I have to totally agree with them.)

If you really need an answer from them - call them. They would rather deal with folks one on one. Please note - earlier - Shinji, the loveable Pariah that he is, even notes that FFG has listened to his opinion when he spoke with them directly, and asked him to stay in touch.

darklogos said:

Sadly this is pre-designed software, that while the forum aspect of it sucks donkey balls, there are a number of aspects of the software that meets more of FFG's needs as a business. Getting the company that sold them the software to go in and make the edits to the code to provide the edit button costs $$$. In the grand scheme of things, I have been told it's something they want fixed, but there is no immediate time table for that. (And it's coming up on a year.) Next time I'm chatting with some of the "powers that be"... I'll poke them for a status update on this one.

darklogos said:

James has a desire to do more articles. The challenge is finding the time to do them. Keep in mind, Hata designed Sets 12, 13 & 14. Each of these sets is a stark contrast to the UFS we've known for the past couple of years. While it's not the statement that you're looking for, it should give a pretty clear guideline.

From our conversations, he wants a world where as many of the symbols are playable as possible, if not all of them. He wants all of the characters to be viable in some way shape or form. He wants the game to be about attacks, and attacking. Ultimately he wants it to be a fighting game.

In a different thread, on a different night, I would actually love to explore this conversation more, to get a deeper understanding of what exactly you're looking for. (I mean, I read the words, and I have my understanding of what I "think" it means.) But from a conversation perspective, this really intrigues me. In part because I'm wondering if what you're looking for is truly viable as you are desiring it.

darklogos said:

Our phone calls and emails to FFG speak to this.

The changes effective with the September prize support speak to this.

At the same time, a large number of FFG's customers don't bother with the forums. (There are two people out of my entire city who actively post on the forums. (Church and I)) They have received feedback from countless individuals and stores, that they do not want to use the forums.

So placing a poll would send the wrong message. Because if the poll on the forums said X, and they didn't do it, the outcry would be huge. The forums tend to find a vocal minority who attempt to outshout everyone else down with a minority opinion.

darklogos said:

See earlier comments re:

• FFG does not as a company actively participate in the forums.
• UFS currently not making enough $$$ to justify hiring a community rep before any other required staff.
  

darklogos said:

Not disagreeing with on this one, however this poses an interesting challenge.

1. Steve believes that the best characters & cards should come from a pack.
2. Promos are generally used to get characters out into rotation to add extra characters to diversity, and add some flavour. If the promos are stackable onto booster characters, people start complaining that there are not enough characters. (which I think people are still doing. ::scratches head: Additionally look at Astrid, where people are complaining that she's too hard to get a hold of, because you want to stack her on your starter deck character.

While this is certainly worth exploring, this is one of those no win scenarios where while you'll really like it, someone else will be really upset by it.

(And Again - Pointing at Astrid as an example of James already trying to implement this.)

darklogos said:

Just to clarify your statement - where you say "Any major card" does that mean "any major promo card"?

RE: PotM - widely available. The Omni-faq states how to get ahold of them. There's still hundreds available for anyone who wants them. It's possibly the easiest promo card to get your hands on.

RE: In Prize support for a period of 2-3 months.

There's a few divergent opinons on this one.

There are the players who complain that once it's been in the pool for more then a month, that they've been overexposed, and don't want them anymore, because they're worthless.

Then there is the camp that says "2 to 3 months isn't enough, because if a player comes in 6 months to a year later, they can't get the card, and they're at a significant disadvantage."

Honestly - this is a no win situation no matter what they do.

darklogos said:

Can I get you to clarify what you're covering under the umbrella of "buff or boost".

Also, does that not run the risk of limiting the promos too significantly, and therefore devaluing them and making them worthless/ undesirable?

darklogos said:

Steve has actively discussed this one. They've been there, and tried that. The gaming industry is littered with the corpses of games that tried to go that route and failed.

That being said - there are street fighter promos available as special gifts in certain Street Fighter collectible action figures. I've also heard rumours of cross promotion with Tekken 6 when it launches in... 2 weeks?

darklogos said:

It's late, and I'm feeling dumb. Can I get you to clarify what you're meaning on this? As in, the winner of the tournament doesn't get exclusive distribution of their personal card?

Or that the Winners of each tournament get to exchange championship cards?

darklogos said:

If you feel I am making light of your ideas, that is not my intent, nor was it ever. I am trying to respond with constructive conversation in kind.

I have to say darklogos that Brian pretty much covered my thoughts, but I also want to point out that your posts have been universally amazing since I came back. KEEP writing, it's good stuff. In fact, let me be the first to extend an offer to write for my blog, and also for my future site at essentialufs.com with hanakahn. Please email me your articles and I will be glad to talk to you even more directly, I'll give you my number too.

Homme Chapeau said:

::Rolls eyes at Hatman::

Dude... seriously? We both know who asked you. Regardless - you still got mad props.

Homme Chapeau said:

So what you're saying is when I was in Montreal a year ago, it was probably a bad idea to get into Dave's car? (I still can't believe that was a year ago)

You don't have to meet people to get to know them. Sure it can help. But since we've met, you can take it from me. There are some fun loving guys over there.

Homme Chapeau said:

Just a small aside. When I write my posts, I have to audiences in mind. The author I may be quoting, and anticipating what some folks who are reading my response may say, or have said on a similar topic. That way it saves me another post. (In theory)

Creating content for UFS is doable. Before I stick my foot in my mouth... I'm going to chat with James about something that just crossed my mind. Let me get back to you on this one.

Keep in mind when contacting FFG to share your thoughts, feel free to just send them an email saying "Hey guys, this is my feelings, I thought you might like to know about "this". And expound on your feelings regarding prize support. If you're not bringing anything new or revolutionary, I wouldn't expect a response. At the same time, I wouldn't anticipate it falling on deaf ears.

Homme Chapeau said:

I agree, yes I have more access to James then the average UFS player. I am aware of that, and frequently that is why I will get answers from him and relay them.

But what I'm also pointing out is that part of that access is because I'm respectful of his time, (As he is of mine as well) and that I don't have access to all Hata, all the time.

At the same time, people need to know - James is a regular guy, in an unusual job. He's human, prone to make human mistakes. If you're talking to him, talk to him, don't "zomg!". A lot of people would be surprised to know just how receptive he is to good intelligent conversation.

Homme Chapeau said:

That thing that you did, that took "zero effort". That was one of the most important things you could have done.

Sharing information about UFS is what this game needs to grow.

You've already done a lot for UFS, because I know how you worked with Dave to help get UFS restarted in Montreal. That sir... is huge, and both you and Dave get massive props for that.

The key thing is that each of those little things - are vitally important to the growth of the game.

No one little thing should be diminished. Guys who ask rules questions in the Q&A - even if it's a butt simple question to ask, play an important part because they help define what stuff needs to be covered in either the AGR or the Omni-FAQ.

While you lawl about how bad your decks are... taking that time you have and talking about them, helps the game.

Little things are ripples in water that turn into waves eventually.

Do what you can, when you can. At the end of the day, this is game. We're not saving lives.

Six pages and no one's mentioned Cypress Hill or Rage Against the Machine yet. The subject really threw me off.

Antigoth said:

Oh the rumor about tekken cross promotion, is that like a promo card (same card for both xbox and ps3 hopefully if it is) in the packaging by the manual?

I think what logos was talking about for winning a nationals or worlds is that instead of getting a character of yourself (or asset) you just get a playset of the next set (before its released) instead of a player winning a character and say selling copies to pay for future ufs based trips or trading for cards that they haven't pulled yet.

Solution demanded. Solution to be Given. But first, Vik you make a valid point on the first post you put up here.Yet not all of us have Horvath's Number. Not to mention that to call him up at work when he has more important **** to do is probaly pretty rude. But since you have his number and probaly know when to call him and Hata, here is my solution and you tell me what you think.

To fix the problems, FFG must do one thing and we must do one thing. FFG must and I repeat MUST look into the history of card games before UFS came out. Both of which have failed and succeded. All aspects of said games should be observed and mistakes should be jotted down and successes should be emulated in a way that is not copying said games. This woud include meta shifts and how it effected the game, financial problems, mechanics, power creeps, support and so on so on. By observing these things UFS can become a better game all around, not just in its mechanics.

As for us, and with the help of Antigoth, Homme Chappeau, and your self, we the community should have a discussion over skype, aim, what have you in which we discuss what is going on in our areas and how the game is doing. Once you have acquired a general concensus, send the said info to HC. Last year about this time he wrote a letter that he was going to send to FFG. Pretty well written. Meanwhile, you and goth along with anyone else with connections to Horvath and Hata will discuss these things further.

Those who agree with this say I and those of you who do not, try to come up with something a little bit better.

Oh and one last thing, upon acquiring the info to our responses, address the community through here on the forum or if you want to, on the new podcast.

Antigoth said:

Others might not. I just wanted to say that I didn't come up with it. I iz no architect.

Antigoth said:

When he's driving there is no problem as the worst driver out of the two is me (cue 277$ speeding ticket I got for Oshawa regionals and the fact that I rear-ended a lady at 1 km/h on the Jacques-Cartier bridge when we were getting everyone for the Canadian Nationals this year). When he talks though, taking him seriously is probably the worst thing ever.

Antigoth said:

Unless I've something new to bring to the table, I try not to communicate to them. Other than "I think the UFS minisite is very underused right now", I don't really have anything to say.

Antigoth said:

I was stressing the point that as a normal player who doesn't know the guy, I've no real reason to contact him unless he gives me permission to do so. You, even if you didn't have previous contact with him, have one as you've volunteered your time to help out and may need to talk to the guy for a clarification on a ruling and/or a rule itself.

Antigoth said:

(Restarted twice - There was a failed attempt in Laval, but worked for a while)

Maybe it's the whole "I have time I should volunteer to do something" thing that makes me diminish my contributions. The keyword is "What?"

I'm going to follow up as best as possible. My forum quote fu is not that strong so I will try to address general ideas and concepts presented.

In the future since some things have been laid out to me I will use the other channels of contact to get in touch with staff. I will say that conditioning is a big thing when it comes to the human experience. I've been conditioned by other games to expect certain things and have certain channels posted, updated, and revealed in certain ways. At times one doesn't dig deeper in other areas of a site to find infomation because the general idea is that you will get a run around most times before you land where you want to go. I will use the other means of feedback when needed.

A lot of how I view myself in this community is based in reaction to most of what is said and not said in the community. I personally value feedback and dialouge then being my statements being a minifaq answerbook. Its harder breaking into this community then some other gaming communites because a lot of anti-social tendencies, that are found stronger in many online games and lesser in table top games, are present here in force. I've been on many contraversial forums with less character assualting then this forum. Many times solid comments on the meta and mechanics are often overlooked for comments about something completely unrelated. So when I write something decent and the next series of posts that follow up are about some weird jank that doesn't make sense at all it devalues the experience a lot. Note I'm not asking folks to agree with me. I'm not some type of forum Nazi either. But the overall average level of commentary is lacking most times. It is improving a lot though. I'm used to talking with Wizard World Champions and exchanging ideas with fan mag creators(I used to talk with Rock810 who ran Critical Hit heroclix fan mag and I got an article in or 2 when he didn't loose my stuff.) Even with the COH card game community, as much as I wasn't liked, there was some serious talk about meta that made me want to come back to the forums a lot. I was able to talk to the rules arbitor and the game development staff about the meta, cards, and other problems that were seen in the game. The main reason I came back to the forums at all is due to the fact that my community had questions that needed answers. If I had not found the new podcast and some of Vik's efforts I would have walked away from this forum. In my big conflict with Dut I realized I do not have the same mindset and game design model as the average UFS player because most of what is valued here was fought against in all my previous games. Again we are brought back to conditioning.

The paying for anything for prizes is a conditioning thing. I'm used to not paying. So paying was a shock. The next thing was some of the feedback from my crew I got on the paid prize support for prerelease stuff. When you get "X is awesome, b,y,z,and aplha centari or ok and have issues in the meta" then you tend to step back a bit. I also look at the feedback on the forums and see the general responses. I don't take everything said as gospel but with a grain of salt. But man I've had some Ocean water to drink down some days. For the store champoionships in paticular with all the discourse about it the big focus was the cards. If that was the case was anything else nessecary? What if they charged 10 bucks and sent out 20 promo's Kiliks and 3 Devil within's for the first place winner. Would that have supported the community better? I'm not saying what I'm offering to be the best solution but it is something that needs to recieve feedback on. The one thing I liked about the judges forums for Wizkids was that we got past all the bunk and talked about running events. We told Wizkids how their set in stone format was killing the game in spite of the powercreep fixing they were doing. The judges went and exchanged ideas for campagins, leauges, and various other creative ideas that made the heroclix community alive. With card games there are limitations but I've seen few ideas other then "Sit down and play a format." On the boards. That type of feedback lets me know that events and outside the box ideas aren't really shared mainly because they aren't encouraged. This all leads back to events. What is the community looking for with events. Without scouts being encouraged to do something different and sharing those ideas most of what works and what fails is left up to FFG staff who are left in the wind. When you get over a 100 judges/scouts saying "This format doesn't work" then only fools would not listen.

To prove I'm not all talk here is some ideas that I've come up with or read on the forums that I would think would be awesome for the UFS community.

Old dogs new tricks: Play Legacy characters with only b4 support and attacks.

This is my fight: Pick a character. You can only play that character for a month. Every win and loss you experience adds to your overall ranking. You then tally up who has the best record at the end of the month and they get an added prize.

Arcade Story mode: Each player picks from a list of characters. Roll off. The person with the highest roll can play through an actual Arcade line up that the character would have faced. If the roll off winner is vicotrious with no continues he gets a big prize. If not then the "bots" get a prize. Its something to do for fun to make people play different stuff.

Commons only: I loved this in heroclix. You can only play with common cards. The only exception is character cards. While this may be a bit hard right now it makes gameplay less on shiny power cards and more about tactics and skill.

Choose your faction: Divide up your player base in half. One half represents one symbol. The other half represnts the polar opposite symbol. The winners are determined by which symbol had the best record at the end of the tournament. Also no card can be played if it has the logo of the opposing faction.

Clone Wars: Everyone plays the same low teir character and fight it out to the death.

(all of these can be modified to fit your play group)

As for the Legacy comments I do enjoy this a lot. I don't like legacy for the fact that I know I WILL get curb stomped so bad if I go into the format. The thing that I see potential with in this game is to have a huge Capcom vs SNK vs Soul Project type of fight. Thing is that what should be the pace of a Legacy game should be guaged and measured and then looked at. From there it should be established what are acceptable boundries for a deck in the Legacy format. Are people comming to Legacy for turn 2 kills or clash of the ages fights that last 50 minutes? I don't know but the feedback from these questions are essential before a ban list is made of any kind. I think that Legacy is an experience just like standard block is an expierence.

I also appreciate the clarification as to "WHY" legacy will not get a Champion card. It would cheapen the card if only 20 peopled showed up to play legacy. In the end the legacy champ would be the champion who one the brawl and not the one man against an army. If more people are needed to show up for the format then that needs to be stated and it clears up hear-say. I want to see more positive rewards for being at these big tournies. Card recognition is one of those things.

Sand bagging in legacy, unlike standard, to me is a cop out. You have access to all characters that are printed that are not banned. There should be no reason to sandbag. There has to be a point in which a person has to ride out the storm and it would force diversity. In this case I think that would be better. Yes there will be the lame responses "But I want to play broke Hanzo, Yoda, OMGROFL COPTER OWNZERS TOON EXODIA GOD CARD!" Those people have no balls in all honesty. Risk is a part of card games and if the complaints about diversity have to deal with not wanting to run risk. If sandbaging was gone across the board 2 things would happen. The first would be that those who want to minimize risk will pilot the same major toons and the those who only leech tech will clash against their own kind. Those who pilot overlooked toons will have to refine their deck more but they force the evolution of the game. In the final rounds the popular piloted cards will have to face strong unknown tech decks. This is what is needed in UFS. I won't put that up for standard since it would kill the game. Legacy on the other hand I think it would make it its own experience that stands out.

Prize support being in flux with many people I know stuff can happen. That wasn't communicated to me and I had no way of knowing that all these different people touched prize support. Everything else on the issue of prize support was answered to more then satisfactory.

A community rep wouldn't be just for UFS but for all their games/products. While one community rep per game would be awesome I know its not going to happen. I would say that if the boards are not for customer feedback, and a means of communication, when what is it there for? To me the purpose and function of the forums is lacking to me. It seems like this resource that is here because people expect it.

One thing that can be seen with Hata in charge is that reusable control is not as strong as it was before and strong control is on weak damaging attacks. As long as that model stays the game is on a good track. At the same time I would like to hear from him, even if it is a video blog, on where he wants to take UFS. The FFG site has proven that it can show videos. Then it would be easy for him to put an embedded video onto the site. This gives people a point of refference to work from and not base it on he-say. I'm not saying I don't trust your statements or report. I'm saying is that people more demanding then I are going to look for a direct refference point.

Here is how I view promos in this game. They are A. Cards to extend the roster and B. Alt abilities of another printed character. Here is the thing. The way character cards are designed as a playable card is crap. Jin and Kazuya are proving to us that a 6 difficulity to play a character card is a bad idea. Considering the character mechanic most characters don't benifit from an added copy of the same character card. THis is why promo's need to be designed to be stacked and not be the main piloted character. If there is some unspoken mystical reason a character card has to be a 6 difficulity a stacked promo won't break that. At the same time it can get versitility to an already printed card. Add on the fact that for its lowered diffuculity you can remove the 6 cc from the card. Make it a handsize 5 and the commit ability and we are good to go. The issue is that promos should add to the experience and not create a situation in which a person has a stronger advantage because they are piloting a promo instead of a starter or booster character. Sad to say that most of the above par cards are promos and not booster or starter characters.

Prize support distrabution effects large and small play groups differently. I have a small play group. Everyone got a White Crane card. That has been our first bit of prize support. A larger group would be effected more negatively because they won't get enough from everyone. The best option is that after a bit of prize support goes through rotation it should be rebundled as something a person can buy from ffg on the cheap until they run out of stock. That would be a simple solution. So if strong prize support comes out and a weaker player can't get it they have the option to buy in the future. It also makes it so that there is an incentive to winning.

The reason I want to see promo foundations and assets be limited to a set in how much they buff and not negate is for the following. I think that generic damage pumps make a card a must have if you can play it. PotM is the best example of that right now. If you can play the card you should play the card. It also makes it so that strong, really hard to get, pieces from a previous set a must have card and it will permantly skew the meta until a stronger card comes out or a strong common counter is provided. Promos should never run the meta. But it does in UFS. You look at over the past year of UFS how many promo cards dominated the meta. Then look at how many of them where foundations. Since we are not in the control era right now we are in the damage pump era. A generic damage pump that can be used for any attack regardless of its set is bad if it is a promo. The same can be said about speed pumps. This is all said in context that these elements run the meta. Right now I am running Bloodline Rebellion in my King deck. It is a very strong card but I know I need to stick with Tekken 6 attacks. Now it rewards me with a nice ability for playing the set. It limits what it can buff. I can ignore the limitations and build how I like or accept the limitations and maximize the result of the card. The same can be said with Lizardman. My big concern as stated is that one promo hard to get/box topper card will dictate the meta. At times I wish POTM had a cap of 5-7 damage. It makes the card a threat but not a freaking hyperbeam to the face. Yes I know you got to play a lot of attacks blah blah blah. But there is no requirement that those attacks have to do damage.

The play set comment is more based around the following scenero. A person wins Worlds/Can Nats/Europe Champ in any of the recognzed format. You get a character card. But you also get a playset of the next set as well. All the promo's and junk as well. This is makes showing up to win worth while. I think there should be an added bonus if you play either a low teir character or don't sandbag. But hey that's just me. This makes the game have big prize support at the high end without making it a money game. Wizkids gave the winner of Wizard Worlds a factory set of current set that was out to the champion and they could pick a maserpiece figure as their prize as well. Everyone complained that most champions had bought more then enough figures that they didn't need or want a factory set of the current figures. That is why I phrased the things the way I did. Sorry for the confusion.

I don't feel that you have made light of my ideas. I think I've gotten a lot of solid responses from you in the past. I can recognize humor and sarcasm. I detect humor more then sarcasm when you respond to me.

Vik thanks for the offer to write articles. I will have to take you up on that offer. I still need to learn and read a lot more. Some cards that people esteem escape me right now.

One quick side note. Thing I find interesting is that Hata's card escaped talk, consideration, and overall serious ranking until Vik put a solid deck on the forums. He then played that deck on the forums against serious players in a major tourney and won. He described how he was to use the deck and the goal of the deck and how tomake the deck better. Everyone knew he was comming and everyone had the opportunity to prepare for his deck. But look he won. This proves that champs can post decks, and still win. I think that the illusion of posting decks will make me loose is a myth for some people to hide good tech and decks in the shadows. It also shows a lot of fear of some champs of being dethroned.

Mt_Do said:

They have, they will, and they will continue to look at those who have come before them. Trust me, they are aware on this one. They have been since the beginning back at STG. Steve has been in the industry for years. While Hata is new, he has plenty of experience around him, and he's willing to listen to it.

Mt_Do said:

Communication with FFG shouldn't be a once a year item.

Communication shouldn't be "Hey everyone lets get the 'community' together and come up with a list."

Remember the community of the forums is not an accurate representation of the UFS population as a whole.

People reaching out and talking with FFG is the best possible thing for the game as whole. The communication needs to be consistent and on going.

For what it's worth, when there are issues that need to be addressed, I raise them. I don't mean to be snooty, but I'm not volunteering to get into a community pow wow to find out what issues I should be bringing to Hata and Horvath.

Once I start trying to speak as "a representative of the community", I feel like I'd loose what "clout" I have. I'd rather let Vik take on a roll like that.

darklogos - Epic post requires epic response. but I've got to be responsible and get some work done.

No problem. It took me 3 hours to write.

Antigoth said:

Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed and agreed.