I don't understand why people say, "Roatation helped lots of playgroups out, but destoryed lots of them as well."

The playgroups that died couldn't use their 4-point stuff anyways. All store/city championships were mini-block, no new big tournaments were planned before planned rotation in February or March or whatever.

My playgroup racked up 5 new players and more than likely 2 more by the end of this day. Those two people played in the past and had to drop UFS to focus on bigger card games with bigger prize support, which I can't blame them for. Last Saturday, they asked "I am interested in starting this game again, but how much do I have to buy back in the sets?" They were drawn in on the 3 total releases that are out in this format and agreed that early rotation was a good thing. I told them about the Fight Life kits and they were amazed that they could get a booster box of each set 12 release and 8 promo cards for $50.

Seriously, that Fight Life kit is undoubtly the best deal in UFS. $50 to instantly get a good base for the game is totally worth it.

I seriously think people are overreacting when they lose players. Face it, it's ALWAYS like this after Gencon. Everybody is exhausted from the world event and past block that they tend to focus on other things. The timing of the year contributes as well. We have people going back to college for fall semester, people struggling with jobs, the little ones are going back to school, etc.

For those that remember, Team Tapout took a break from the game last year around this time. 2/3rds of my playgroup went back to school and just couldn't focus on UFS.

Imma just throw out my opinion.

Knowing all of the above, it's obvious that the Store Championships are around the wrong time. With a majority of players going back to their studies, attendance will be rough. Also, November to December, huh? That's the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday months. Again, attendance will be rough. I expect the City Championships to be better since that is after the beginning of the new year.

Also, I'm not bashing on this, but while the UFS Pro Tour is a great idea, myself and a lot of others believe that it is WAAAAAY too early for those kinds of tournaments, not only because of what is said above, but also because the game is entirely new. Use this time to allow the game to flourish and gain new players. It just seems like everybody jumped at the idea of a pro tour without actually considering the games' current position. You have to time these events well. By rushing the pro tour, it feels like this great idea is going to fall flat on it's face.

I care for UFS a lot. I don't want to see it cease.

Shaneth said:

our group is sitting at 20+ players more who moved from a starter league to standard since rotation hit since they are mostly on par with support (other then a few prerelease promos)

the city championship, other than the fact that one of our stores registered for the 21st of November (because the September SoTG said prerelease first week of December before october changed it) so now its a bloody f#@!ed up weekend, with Friday being a prerelease, Saturday being the city championships, and Sunday being another prerelease. oh and 20+ players and 8 copies of exclusive promo is crappy.

the ufs pro tour is bad idea. its basically for players who want cash prizes and "more" intensive to play and can't win in the magic pro tours...

kiit said:

Yeah, 8 copies of exclusive promo is ind33d crappy for larger playerbases. Seriously, one thing that is going wrong is the lack of large numbers in copies of cards for prize support. Remember back when STG ran everything? We got PLAYSETS of something PER PERSON!!! That's when prize support was ballin', but that's another story.

The UFS Pro Tour isn't a bad idea, sir. People can disagree, but when it comes to a game that offers cash prizes, that game will take off.

Magic - Cash prizes. Most popular TCG out there.
YGO - Electronics for prizes. 2nd most popular TCG out there.

Other CCGs which are dead now but were extremely played back in the day, ex VS and Dreamblade. VS was a money game from the start. Brian Garber has already stated how his team cracked the VS format and won a total of over $60k at Gencon 06. Competitive players want to compete over insane prizes. Money is the best because money makes the world go 'round.

Right now, UFS is considered a casual game. The prize support is complete ****.
This drives away thousands of players as they proceed to play Magic/YGO, whatever they will make profit off of.

Some of my friends who play UFS front YGO as their main game. That game is more profitable than UFS. Hughes and MickyD paid for their trip to Gencon by selling like... 5 YGO cards? Something like that.

Competitive players wish to make a profit off the game they play.
Right now, it is almost impossible to make a profit off of UFS.

did you ever stop to think of it from a different point of view? Like myself, i supported the pro tour deal because i wanted to see my players and friends get better prizes.

Money games are popular, but the tournament scene is unpleasant and the forums are too. Swing by **** for a bit, read some insights into decks and come back.

I played YGO for all of two or so months this year. The tournament scene is incredibly boring. I can't subject myself to playing a game I can't enjoy for the sake of winning some money.

And when there is money, there is more complaining than in UFS. Yes, for those of you who have not ventured outside UFS ever, other card games have infinitely more complaints than UFS.

Our complaints consist of certain cards having weird rulings, perhaps the occasional card that is considered too powerful.

In YGO, there is CONSTANT complaining: "oh my God, I can't believe they unbanned card X", "why did they limit card X, it cripples the deck i spent over $500 on", "why is card X banned, it's not as bad as card Y. Card Y needs to be banned now."

Why? Because you can't possibly be objective against a card that will ultimately (win you games)/(destroy your deck). When money's involved, you can't even camp in someone's house and build a deck the night before, and expect honest feedback.

You really think another contestant for the same monetary prize will build a deck with you that can beat his deck? You think someone will help you test it extensively?

Prizes may be dismal in UFS, but ultimately that's what makes it a better game.

guitalex2008 said:

While I appreciate the noble and modest stance you're taking you have to realise something: Human beings are greedy and 80%+ of the time will only do things that benefits them in some way shape or form (and I do not mean the whole: "Good job" pat on the back kinda gratitude). If folks play a game, they want to win something. And that something is not the same four cards given to them last month for winning. Yes it's shallow, but it's the truth.

I love playing UFS, but having already played competative Magic (cash prizes) and L5R (directly effect published stories, mutha fawkin swords as prizes) I can say withouth a doubt that UFS has the absolute worst prize support I have ever seen. Short of winning a character card/team asset, there is no tangible way to earn any sort of reward for winning anything,short of a good job style pat on the back.

It seems as though everyone is forgetting that when you win those cards, you can, if you so choose, SELL the **** cards. There's you're money prize.

B-Rad said:

sooo your going to forfit during any card winning finals because they don't directly give you money (even though you can get more for the card of yourself)

Like I said, you get what, 800 copies of a card? Even selling them for JUST $1 a piece pays for the trip to Gencon, the hotel stay AND the tournament.

No no you misunderstand my point.

Yes I can sell the promos I win, but for what? A dollar to CSI? Maybe some store credit at my local store? Ebay for 10 bucks? There are thankfully no Addes' Syndacites anymore, so I can't go ebay a set for almost a rent check.

And as I said, the only way to make any tangiable financial return on this game is to win a character card/asset. You get your 800-1000 copies or however many, and ebay the majority of em for 10-20 bucks a pop. There's a nice financial return.

As for the whole "will I forfeit all my finals?" No... Why would I do something as stupid as that? I enjoy this game immensily, and also enjoy winning (to be frank). Just because I am of the thought that winning should actually equil out to winning something every now and again (whether it be cash, schwag, whatever) does not mean that I will start purposly losing because I don't get what I want. That whole idea is asinine, to be polite.

At the current time, given the fact there are only six opportunities to win anything of any real physical value I can understand and somewhat emphasize with folks who choose to go play bigger games such as Magic and YGO. While it may not be the "right" ideal, it's shows just what human beings are, and that's greedy.

There is absolutely no way I can touch this topic without going onto an anti-American rant, so I won't.

B-Rad said:

The one JJ that sold on Ebay sold for over 50 dollars for one copy....just saying...

I still don't understand why people play card games for "financial return" there are some of us that cannot afford to travel to anything but still love to play at a competitive level with each other and buy all the best cards. Some people like playing a game because they actually like PLAYING the game.

Sol Badguy said:

Because some people like playing a game, and want a possible "out" for when they don't like it anymore. A competitive game with cash allows for a cutthroat secondary market, marking up the price of cards by a LOT.

Homme Chapeau said:

As it is our secondary market(AKA Coolstuffinc) is pretty over priced as it is considering how "crappy" our prizes are. I mean we have had 40-50 dollar cards. PLENTY of 20-30 dollar cards. 5 Dollar Uncommons? I would say our secondary market has been pretty bad.

Sol Badguy said:

Other games have had it plenty worse, and most of those 20-30 dollar cards right now are going down in price because nobody's buying them at that price (I'm looking at you, Twilight Embrace).

Homme Chapeau said:

Yeah well there other games that have had it about the same and have much better prize support. But I quit those games(Naruto) because they were not fun for me anymore.

Sol Badguy said:

JJ is a special case as it was a promo released in England, as such could potentially be rather hard for folks across the pond to obtain. A character such as Jon Herr or Omar would be relativly easier to snag, and would probably go for a much lower price.

Sol Badguy said:

1) Admitting to playing Naruto is bad, you're lucky I don't report you to a moderator.

2) To address the thread (that everyone has relatively deviated from).

a) playgroups that are dying aren't dying because of rotation, Shane is right - it is timing, and it is money, and it is lack of ability to get away during cold/(stay-home holiday months).

b) I somewhat agree, the timing of the pro-tour is silly, also it does appear to appeal mostly to the material players of the game which may or may not be a good thing

c) the store championships are timed poorly and greatly. The latter becuase it gives something to do without cost (travel) in the relative off-season. Poorly becuase, just that, it is the off season. I'm in favor of them though.

d) Anyone who plays any card game to make a living probably isn't playing UFS or any game other than poker or Magic for that matter. It is nice to get prizes, sure, it helps validate the time and energy you put into suceeding at something. At the same time, part of playing UFS is about the intangible, and it helps just as well to highlight this when attracting newer players to the game.

- dut

B-Rad said:

Actually, that person specifically violated JJ's terms. JJ was willing to give the card to people who would not trade or sell it, since he himself was not making a profit. In fact, I have a copy of it and he covered the shipping costs and didn't charge me a dime. He's an awesome guy.

I wouldn't be a ****** and go ahead and sell mine when he lost money so I could get it. It's just ridiculous.

But if YOU are the champion, you do whatever you want with your cards. eBaying them for $10 is pretty appropriate, and even if you don't sell all 800 copies of them, you'll make your trip money back in no time.

You're worrying too much Duckington.

Unfortunately, some people DID leave due to early rotation, but really, **** them. They are clearly invaluable assets if they're that easily deturred.

I haven't had a playerbase since Set 10, how do you think I feel? Over a year and pretty much nobody to play with =/ [//wrists]

Either way, the rotation and new direction of this game is the best ever, as we've already established. One of the biggest complaints is that there've never been a big event after Worlds until around Spring.

Now there are.

dutpotd said:

I play every and all card games I can get my hands on. I have played over 40 at least. And yeah out of all the ones I have played UFS has the worst support. Naruto support was...Godly. people playing VS and Yugioh at the time were jealous of us because we got playmats every week as FREE prize support. And Thier "regional" program was easy to get your store applied for and the kits were also free giving out at least 6 box worth of product plus mats and promos to multiple cities per state once again FREE of charge. Say what you will about the game(I quit because I didn't like it) but it doesn't change the fact that it's local prize support was second to none.

But Yeah I play UFS because I like Fighting games and I like card games so it just seems to be a natural choice. I have already spent more money on this game than any other and I have a lot of fun playing it. I could care less about the prize support but it would be nice if we could at least start getting mats again in our Pre Release kits...Mats are a great way to promote the game I had someone come up to us just because they wanted to know where I got my Shadowar mat from. FFG really missed the ball on the Tekken Release by giving us Legacy Product instead of mats...And from the looks of it we are again getting crappy Warriors Dream Boxes instead of Mats.

Do you play card games because it's a fun, enjoyable card game, or to win other ****?

Me? I play for the children's card game. I don't have to win other ****: I have a job.

guitalex2008 said:

Money games gave out money to whut? Top 64?
YGO gave out mass electronics to top 16 and great prizes rounding off top 32.

In UFS, only 1 person per character card event can perform the action you dictate.

Sol Badguy said:

Most competitive players wish to make a profit. Olexa's playgroup got 1 character (2 with Kirk Polka), 2 assets (Wonderworlds), and 500 Path of the Master. The money made off those exclusive cards paid for their traveling trips and newer set cards. They really haven't spent a penny out of their own pockets in a loooong time. People say this hurts because they don't actually pay for cards out of their own pockets, but that is how it is when you are the only ones of of the top 8 or 16 that comes in 1st.

Sol Badguy said:

Naruto is a top game at my store, and honestly, I don't care if it's a bad game. Naruto players seem to have more fun with Naruto than my UFS players do with UFS. I guess this explains why most of the ATL crew played Naruto at Gencon than UFS. Their prizes were so badass too.

I will admit to being jealous of Naruto because they had mats available every week.
I will admit to expending earthmunnies to create a badass Naruto deck just to win prizes (mats) I could sell for a profit.
I will admit considering to travel to a Naruto event with my store buddies.
I will admit regretting to sign up for the Naruto Sannin at Gencon, just so I could get $170 prizes for free.

I miss the UFS prize support back in the day. I remember the first day I traveled for UFS, Nationals 2007. All tournaments were FREE of charge. You got free swag just for signing up and playing throughout all rounds. Just for participating in Singles Nats, you got 3x packs of each set (Xtreme Rivals and Soul Arena) for free. You also got foil playsets of uncommons at the times. Thats right, playsets of promos. Amazing. Not this 1 copy jank we get today. Event the side events were awesome. They gave out uncut sheets for FREE!!!! Amazing.

Also, apparently at Worlds 2006, they held $1 drafts. People can say this hurts store sales, but when you look at it, it's only 6 packs for an event, and maybe 1 or 2 of those events were held on one certain day of the weekend. Amazing.

Worlds 2007 was really good for the people who topped, but everybody else got NOTHING for participating. Pathetic.

Nationals 2008 also had crappy support. This was the final signal of the downfall. Pathetic.

Worlds 2008 - Woooow, my team made top 4 in teams and what did we get? We got the Morrigan playmat that EVERYBODY else got for the Darkstalkers pre-release TWO WEEKS after that pre-release. Oh, and we also got a 4-pack of Monster Energy Drinks. Pathetic. My boy Chubbs made top 16 in singles. What did he get? The same Morrigan playmat, the same two weeks late. He got Monster Energy Drinks as well. Pathetic.

Nationals 2009 - I made top 4 in singles. The most notable things I got were the set 10 binder and my plaque. The set 10 binder dropped due to early rotation. Couldn't give out the Set 12 binders, huh? Pathetic.

Worlds 2009 - My team made top 4 yet again. This time they actually did something right. We each got a binder of set 12. Thats right, 3 of every card handed to us when we top 4'd. Plaques too. I was actually amazed because those binders helped out my group soooo much. For the people who made top 8 in singles, I feel sorry for you. The people who topped in teams got better support than you did. The set 11 binder was a kick in the face, especially when they announced previously that day that they are rotating early.

Also, no electronics in top 8. That pissed me off. Why is it that every other previous World event had electronics for top 8? Why is it that Path of the Master, a lower quality event than a world championship gives out electronics to top 2 while the world event doesn't have any electronics? Why is it that a lower quality event hands out Path of the Master promos, a staple in this new format, and can't at the world event?

They are dropping the ball. If prize support doesn't pick up, then I'll pick up another game.

Oh no don't get me wrong I would very much like to travel and I have a lot of the best cards in the game. I wouldn't consider myself casual at all. Me and my friends all do extensive playtesting and play with top tier decks. Hell the Chaos Heiachi that got second at SAS was almost a carbon copy of my Heiachi build I made a month ago or so.

Regardless I still play for fun. Card games are a hobby. it's great if you get something in return but in the end this is a hobby. Obviously if you are in a game only for the prizes then you are not having fun playing the game.

The thing is that Naruto is guarenteed to die off. While some may argue that UFS can suffer the same fate the fact remains that Naruto will die no matter what once the anime comes to an end. While UFS may or may not die off due to people just not caring anymore Naruto will die FOR SURE. Thats onething I really hate about anime based card games. If anything I would rather play Battle spirits than Naruto since the game has better prizing and has the potential to live for a long time.

Shaneth said:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.