Isn't the point of keeping most mods on the crystal specifically that lightsabers are extremely powerful and rare weapons?

Yes, but because you killed a Krayt Dragon, and not because you just got lucky with the crystal polish...

Isn't the point of keeping most mods on the crystal specifically that lightsabers are extremely powerful and rare weapons? It isn't supposed to be easy and low risk to totally kit out the saber. Keeping mods on the crystal also keeps a story element alive for the duration of the game, ie finding more crystals since any other piece of the weapon is fairly common to come by. With the new update stating the crystals can be salvaged they've removed the risk of losing all the work put into the weapon which is not something that can be said for other weapons.

The problem is that some of the crystals have so many mods it becomes next to impossible for the PC to do the mods themselves. And Jedi are supposed to be the ones customizing their lightsaber. Not handing it off to the mechanic.

Isn't the point of keeping most mods on the crystal specifically that lightsabers are extremely powerful and rare weapons? It isn't supposed to be easy and low risk to totally kit out the saber. Keeping mods on the crystal also keeps a story element alive for the duration of the game, ie finding more crystals since any other piece of the weapon is fairly common to come by. With the new update stating the crystals can be salvaged they've removed the risk of losing all the work put into the weapon which is not something that can be said for other weapons.

The problem is that some of the crystals have so many mods it becomes next to impossible for the PC to do the mods themselves. And Jedi are supposed to be the ones customizing their lightsaber. Not handing it off to the mechanic.

By that reasoning, modifying a lightsaber should be tied to the Lightsaber skill. That way any Lightsaber duelist with any skill can modify their blade to some degree. It's not a guarantee that a Force user will invest in discipline. The chances are better than usual, sure.

Isn't the point of keeping most mods on the crystal specifically that lightsabers are extremely powerful and rare weapons? It isn't supposed to be easy and low risk to totally kit out the saber. Keeping mods on the crystal also keeps a story element alive for the duration of the game, ie finding more crystals since any other piece of the weapon is fairly common to come by. With the new update stating the crystals can be salvaged they've removed the risk of losing all the work put into the weapon which is not something that can be said for other weapons.

The problem is that some of the crystals have so many mods it becomes next to impossible for the PC to do the mods themselves. And Jedi are supposed to be the ones customizing their lightsaber. Not handing it off to the mechanic.

By that reasoning, modifying a lightsaber should be tied to the Lightsaber skill. That way any Lightsaber duelist with any skill can modify their blade to some degree. It's not a guarantee that a Force user will invest in discipline. The chances are better than usual, sure.

The problem with that idea is it does not counter the problem of crystals like the Illum crystal which has 7 upgrades. which could have 2red3purple difficulty....breaking up the options pulls those difficulties away from those insane difficulty levels

I would rather see sabers have both hilt and emitter attachments (both modable) with crystals being un modded attachments. Thus the basic saber in F&D remains unchanged, but the saber in EotE and AoR represents a saber with mods and a really high-end crystal.

(I know I'm speaking against my own interest here, having a cargo hold full of crystal polish I'd really like to unload, but I'd write the whole thing off to get this clunky-arse subsystem fixed-up right...)

I like this idea, though I think crystals should have a few mods that are tied directly to their unique features.

That's fair. Making the crystals static would keep the game simple.

I'd also like to see inferior crystals, and a synthetic crystal entry. Luke's crystal in RotJ (of course from an EU description) is synthetic and the sith use synthetic crystals almost exclusively. Would be nice to see this come up, as that could be the focus of an adventure, learning the techniques to making a synthetic crystal... etc.

Ditto.

Some of the suggestions rakaydos made just are a little over thought.

My suggestion which I breifly made above and Dono illustrated) is to find the common elements of all the crystals. What do they all basically possess to some degree.

Damage mods.

Viscious mods

Crit Mods

Improved Emitter

Base mod: viscious +1

Mod options: Viscious mod +1, 2 damage mod +1, Crit mod +1

Cost: 2000

HP: 2

Barab ingot

Base Mod: Damage 6, crit 3, Breach 1, Burn 1, Sunder

Mod options: 2 Burn +1,

Cost: 15000

Ilum

Base Mod: Damage 6, crit 2, Breach 1, Sunder

Mod options: 2 Damage +1

Cost: 9000

Dragite

Base Mod: Damage 6, crit 3, Breach 1, Disorient 1, Sunder

Mod options: 2 disoreint +1, 2 concussive +1

Cost: 14000

Lorrdian

Base Mod: Damage 5, crit 3, Breach 1, defensive 1, Sunder

Mod options: 2 deflection +1, defensive +1

Cost: 7000

Etc.

This does have the side effect of increasing the potential crit rating for some crystals, just in the above, but I'm Ok with that as going from 3 to 2 is useful, but not game breaking, IMO.

It also makes the crystals them selves more clear in what they actually offer. (comparable is the word I was looking for)

Then, use discipline to mod the crystals if you want, as it divides the rewards into two sets of skills, requiring both to master the saber fully as an item, but gives the dabler more power and more options.

I like this, too.

I would rather see sabers have both hilt and emitter attachments (both modable) with crystals being un modded attachments. Thus the basic saber in F&D remains unchanged, but the saber in EotE and AoR represents a saber with mods and a really high-end crystal.

(I know I'm speaking against my own interest here, having a cargo hold full of crystal polish I'd really like to unload, but I'd write the whole thing off to get this clunky-arse subsystem fixed-up right...)

I like this idea, though I think crystals should have a few mods that are tied directly to their unique features.

I could easily be happy with crystals having a normal number of mods.

I would rather see sabers have both hilt and emitter attachments (both modable) with crystals being un modded attachments. Thus the basic saber in F&D remains unchanged, but the saber in EotE and AoR represents a saber with mods and a really high-end crystal.

(I know I'm speaking against my own interest here, having a cargo hold full of crystal polish I'd really like to unload, but I'd write the whole thing off to get this clunky-arse subsystem fixed-up right...)

I like this idea, though I think crystals should have a few mods that are tied directly to their unique features.

I could easily be happy with crystals having a normal number of mods.

In what way?

Like a blaster, where you can mod the barrel, grip, power cell (kind of), casing, and attach a few things, many of which have their own sub-mods?

Personally, I think the crystal should just be the base crystal plus a few (maybe 4 at max) mods, then give me a couple emitters, maybe another hilt, and something else to mod the lightsaber. Nothing crazy - I don't want KoTOR II-style long lists of bits and bobs. Just a few so that I can feel like my character made something unique.

Maybe if not in the corebook, then perhaps in an equipment book down the line? They could even bundle it with a Starship book. I think if they included some of the optional rules posed here it would be beneficial to put in that book as well. Just my two credits.

I could easily be happy with crystals having a normal number of mods.

In what way?

Like a blaster, where you can mod the barrel, grip, power cell (kind of), casing, and attach a few things, many of which have their own sub-mods?

What's a "sub-mod?" Weapons have attachments ; attachments have mods, usually 2 or 3 available per attachment, which is what the mod system, with its progressive difficulty, was designed for.

A crystal is an attachment which, presently can have up to 7 mods, which is ridiculous.

And Jedi are supposed to be the ones customizing their lightsaber. Not handing it off to the mechanic.

And Jedi are supposed to be the ones customizing their lightsaber. Not handing it off to the mechanic.

Point out the rule where it says that.

It's not a rule, it's thematic. Lightsabers are very personal weapons, and closely tied to force-users. I don't hold with the idea that sensitivity to the force should be required to build and modify one, but I also don't imagine a lot of muggles tinkering with them.

And Jedi are supposed to be the ones customizing their lightsaber. Not handing it off to the mechanic.

Point out the rule where it says that.

"However, these Post-Cleansing Lightfoils were weaker than the authentic or "archaic" lightfoils due to the poor quality focusing crystals used in their manufacture and the relatively low level of craftsmanship compared to Jedi artisans . However, the knockoff lightfoils apparently did not require any connection to the Force to create, and were fully usable by non- Force sensitives . ^{[1] "}

^{So a lightsaber can be created by a non jedi, but is inherently lower quality} than a Force-forged lightsaber crystal, specifically because the Force User can use said force to improve the quality.

It's not a rule, it's thematic.

You mean it's "from the EU".

I have no problem with people wanting this nonsense in their game. However, I'm fine with Samurai Saberswinging Force Users "bonding" with a Katana Lightsaber forged built by a Master Smith. Even if it gets tuned up by their besty Techie because they have no mechanic skill or talent themselves.

Lorne's gotta unload that crystal polish some how.

"However, these Post-Cleansing Lightfoils were weaker than the authentic or "archaic" lightfoils due to the poor quality focusing crystals used in their manufacture and the relatively low level of craftsmanship compared to Jedi artisans . However, the knockoff lightfoils apparently did not require any connection to the Force to create, and were fully usable by non- Force sensitives . ^{%5B1%5D "}

^{So a lightsaber can be created by a non jedi, but is inherently lower quality} than a Force-forged lightsaber crystal, specifically because the Force User can use said force to improve the quality.

And if you can find that sort nonsense anywhere in the 3 (or even 6) movies I'll give you a cookie.

You mean it's "from the EU".

Nope, it’s canon. Did you not see TCW?

Still not seeing the argument for why it should be easier to kit out a lightsaber....its not like you have to use illum, there are several options with fewer mods and thus more powerful in the short term leaving illum for the truely dedicated sabersmiths.

Nope, it’s canon. Did you not see TCW?

I've been trying to forget that nonsense.

Nope, it’s canon. Did you not see TCW?

Ugh. Right, so the Saberswinger has to have Move purchased up to the 15 EXP Control upgrade in order to even build their Saber.

I've been trying to forget that nonsense.

Not that this is the topic for it, but couldn't you do it with only buying the basic move power for 10xp? That's how I interpret it. A lightsaber is pretty small and I probably missed something in the rules, so apologies if it just went right on by me.

On topic: What mods would we put in place of the ones from the crystals if they are removed?

Nope, it’s canon. Did you not see TCW?

Ugh. Right, so the Saberswinger has to have Move purchased up to the 15 EXP Control upgrade in order to even build their Saber.

I've been trying to forget that nonsense.

Not that this is the topic for it, but couldn't you do it with only buying the basic move power for 10xp? That's how I interpret it. A lightsaber is pretty small and I probably missed something in the rules, so apologies if it just went right on by me.

On topic: What mods would we put in place of the ones from the crystals if they are removed?

He's referring to the last Control Upgrade for Move, where it gives you fine control of using Move, as if you were using your hands. So by comparison, you know those blocks that can go into holes that fit those blocks - star shaped block in a star shaped hole for instance? Without the upgrade, a force user can essentially only just keep smacking the block against the hole, trying to hope that it gets shifted properly into place. Somebody with the control upgrade, can actually turn and twist the block as if they were actually physically there doing it, and basically do it with no problem.

Here's a clip from TOR (which also has Luke's deleted scene slapped onto the end of it) since I couldn't find any CW clips. It's close enough to what's in Clone Wars, but with Clone Wars there was like 20 different little parts in addition to a number of medium parts that all came together to form the saber.

So if you wanted to be more accurate to what's in Clone Wars, you'd basically need the control upgrade. But it's not really a necessary thing. I see it more as another sort of ritual/trial of the Jedi Order, just testing to see if you comprehend the instructions to build a lightsaber and have a firm enough grasp over the force.

I'd just figured the "using telekinesis as part of lightsaber construction" was more of a fluff element than something that really needed to be reflected in the rules. Particularly as building a lightsaber is something that's done in a peaceful/serene setting where one can work with a minimum of outside distractiions or disturbances.

It'd also be something of a learning exercise for the Initiate, using the Force to manipulate the various parts of the lightsaber with their minds as well as hands as well as demonstrating that they've mastered enough of the basic skill set, both mundane and mystical, that was required for them to be deemed ready to be chosen as a Padawan.

The "fine manipulation" Control Upgrade for Move is more akin to being able to do that kind of fine manipulation on the fly, with little to no prep-time, and be able to affect a much, much broader variety of objects than the finite list of components used in building a lightsaber. That and I'd be very leery of accepting what's seen in a video game (like the SW:TOR clip above) as being "truthful" in how a lightsaber is built, since video games are a highly visual medium and thus are designed to make a boring/mundane task like building a lightsaber to be far more visually interesting.

In the novelization for The Force Unleashed, Starkiller mentioned that he could build a lightsaber just fine without relying entirely upon telekinesis, but kept trying to use only telekinesis to assemble a lightsaber as a training exercise to provide him with a better degree of fine control. He was apparently too enmeshed in the dark side to attain the necessary state of mind until the very end, when he'd pretty much had his Heel-Face Turn and truly became one of the good guys.

Here's a clip from TOR (which also has Luke's deleted scene slapped onto the end of it) since I couldn't find any CW clips. It's close enough to what's in Clone Wars, but with Clone Wars there was like 20 different little parts in addition to a number of medium parts that all came together to form the saber.

Need more of that and less cartoony nonsense.

I'd just figured the "using telekinesis as part of lightsaber construction" was more of a fluff element than something that really needed to be reflected in the rules. Particularly as building a lightsaber is something that's done in a peaceful/serene setting where one can work with a minimum of outside distractiions or disturbances.

And you give me crap for the same thing? Yeah.

Nope, it’s canon. Did you not see TCW?

Ugh. Right, so the Saberswinger has to have Move purchased up to the 15 EXP Control upgrade in order to even build their Saber.

I've been trying to forget that nonsense.

Not that this is the topic for it, but couldn't you do it with only buying the basic move power for 10xp? That's how I interpret it. A lightsaber is pretty small and I probably missed something in the rules, so apologies if it just went right on by me.

On topic: What mods would we put in place of the ones from the crystals if they are removed?

He's referring to the last Control Upgrade for Move, where it gives you fine control of using Move, as if you were using your hands. So by comparison, you know those blocks that can go into holes that fit those blocks - star shaped block in a star shaped hole for instance? Without the upgrade, a force user can essentially only just keep smacking the block against the hole, trying to hope that it gets shifted properly into place. Somebody with the control upgrade, can actually turn and twist the block as if they were actually physically there doing it, and basically do it with no problem.

Here's a clip from TOR (which also has Luke's deleted scene slapped onto the end of it) since I couldn't find any CW clips. It's close enough to what's in Clone Wars, but with Clone Wars there was like 20 different little parts in addition to a number of medium parts that all came together to form the saber.

Snip

The episode you are looking for are the Young Jedi arc, Season 5 Episodes 6-9. I believe you want Episode 7 "A Test of Strength", specifically. It shows the young Jedi building a lightsaber, to some extent.

Fluff or not, I'm going to continue to only use the base Move power for this. Unless the player is being shot at, ro the ship is under attack and rocking back and forth or something, it should be more than sufficient.

Eh. I see no reason that Move would be necessary to constructing a lightsaber, although I do think having some connection to the Force should be useful, if not necessarily a requirement.

I know some people choose to dismiss the EU, but Corran Horn is able to assemble a lightsaber, and his skill with telekinesis is almost nil.

I certainly see the reasoning behind it. So, if there is no reason for the character to have to roll dice, just role play them constructing it. But if, as I said, they are being blasted or the ship is under attack, or whatever may be causing them to loose concentration perhaps the base move power could be employed?

Okay, my biggest objection to the way they handle modding lightsabers and crystals is simple. With nothing else does adding a mod increase the difficulty of the roll. No other attachment is like that. Now, I have no issue with the cost increase, that makes sense, especially when modding the crystals, because before you ever try an mess with the crystal in your saber, you want a lot of practice so you don't screw everything up. As to building a lightsaber with Move or without, that's up to the players as to how they want to handle it. The biggest reason you need the force user to make a good lightsaber is attuning the crystal. Without that attunement, it kinda turns out crappy. I look at it as the person who made it has just the base crystal damage, no qualities, and no modding of the crystal is possible. I'd probably toss in a Discipline or force roll to attune the crystal, but I can see mechanics working for the rest of it as your are fiddling with the cut and positioning of said crystal within the saber.

Okay, my biggest objection to the way they handle modding lightsabers and crystals is simple. With nothing else does adding a mod increase the difficulty of the roll.

From EotE:

"INSTALLING MODS

To install a mod, the user selects one uninstalled modification option. He then spends 100 credits on components and supplies. makes sure he has a toolkit, spends a couple hours at a work bench, and makes a Hard (3 Difficulty) Mechanics check.

If he succeeds, he successfully installs the mod on his gear, and the item now benefits from the bonus provided by the mod. If he fails, however, the mod is not installed, and he may not attempt to install that mod again If he failed and his check generated at least one Despair, the attachment is also rendered useless by his tinkering.

Each additional mod installed in an attachment beyond the first increases the difficulty of the Mechanics check by one, and costs an additional 100 credits beyond the base cost. "

The part most people likely skip is the requirement of the workbench...