I think it should be something unique, like the ability to carry an extra ept like the awing or spending shields to buff attacks. I like the 2/3/3/2 stat line already, increasing the attack by one is boring and unexciting AND steps on the defenders toes.

Maybe allow it to do the new loop turns? But then the interceptor and defender not able to do them doesn't make sense... hmm...

Yeah just adding one more attack die is boring and makes it redundant. How about make it more maneuverable like sacrifice a missile slot for a Tie Advanced title card that makes the Tie Advanced be able to make curved barrel rolls but without the stress like Lorrir.

Then it can be a ship that can be move into a better attack position and when paired with Outmaneuver to the ship would be nice.

Precision Sensors

Modification: Tie Advanced and x1 only. -2 points.

When attacking a ship you have a target lock on, the defender reduces their agility by 1 (up to 0).

This should increase the damage potential of the Advanced without giving it 3 dice. It will likely be in alternate turns, as you take a target lock, and then the next turn attack for -1 agility, TL + F. The Tie Advanced benefits from having lots of hull and lots of agility so its an easier choice to take a TL instead of a F on any given turn. Good flying will also serve to make more use of this. It will also greatly change how one flies and how one builds for a Tie Advanced.

Removing agility also helps deal with the Falcon, which meets a better match in ships with decent hull and agility (both of which the Tie Advanced has).

This makes Proton Rockets and, especially, Pre-Wave-3.5 Missiles and Torps much more effective. Proton Torpedoes with -1 agility? Heck yes. I would gladly pay 4 points for that. Also doesn't need any fixing of the missiles themselves.

1. This stops the Tie Adv from stepping on the toes of 3 attack ships: X-wing and Interceptor.

2. This deals with a metagame problem that will simply get worse in Wave 5 with 2 more turreted ships. (Falcons, and even hitting a Phantom).

3. It makes you fly the ship in a different way, changing the way that you play the game with this ship.

4. It uses its existing advantages to allow it to fill the role of a tanky, medium fighter.

In terms of cost, the Tie Advanced is expected to be cost-ineffective by about 4 points. Outmaneuver costs 3, so should be about right. It requires you to have a TL on THAT ship, and taking a TL means that one turn you didn't have a Focus.

--

Currently, at 100 pts, you could then get 5 of these -1agi (every other turn), 2 dice ships with 3 agility and 5 hull each. You'd have 5 points left over: 1 assault missile?

That would be a good list, not overpowered except against the Swarm.

You still couldn't take 4 Tempests Adv and Vader.

With 5 points extra, you could only afford 1 Proton Rocket

Titles x1-x7

Inquisitor Pilot

Other new pilots

@Blail I'm not sure about using a title slot vs a mod slot (mod would make more sense thematically, since you're changing a ship system) or the exact costing (I think 0 or -1 would be closer to the mark, but I haven't play tested it at all), but the idea of making TLs do just a little bit more is very elegant. I might playtest this a bit and get back to you guys.

EDIT: I swear this phone is out to make me look like a complete moron

@Blail I'm not sure about using a title slot vs a mod slotslot (Moff would make more sense thematically, since you're changing a ship system) or the exact costing (I think 0 or -1 would be closer to the mark, but I haven't play tested it at all), but the idea of making TLs do just a little bit more is very elegant. I might playtest this a bit and get back to you guys.

I'd agree with you. It's a little heavy handed. But it sounds fun and different and I don't see it as being too cost effective. I don't think it's really going to be worth 3 actual points like outmaneuver because it requires a TL and it's only on that one ship. Not any ship you could have fired on, which is what makes outmaneuver so good.

So i,d say that effect is probably 1.5 or 2 points only. Which actually makes it perfect for the cost reduction that MJ has calculated.

Yeah. I agree. It seems more like a mod. Sadly that will mean we will never see boost advanced.

Advanced engines

Ship may treat all 3 banks as S-turns after revealing its dial.

1 pt

Well before I saw blail my favorite solution was the addition of a systems slot for 0 or even -1. The ship definitely has the potential to be neat but as others have pointed out the cost is just too much, my imperial lists often would like something like it, but are never willing to pay for it.

Well before I saw blail my favorite solution was the addition of a systems slot for 0 or even -1. The ship definitely has the potential to be neat but as others have pointed out the cost is just too much, my imperial lists often would like something like it, but are never willing to pay for it.

That was mine also, at -3 points. But Accuracy Corrector breaks that and tell us FFG isn't going to do that.. which is sad. An advanced Sensor barrel roller for Imps would have been fun too.

=)

I don't see them directly lowering the points cost because you could fit five in a list than. If they want to lower the cost something indirect like a free title that works like veteran instinct would be more elegant.

I don't see them directly lowering the points cost because you could fit five in a list than. If they want to lower the cost something indirect like a free title that works like veteran instinct would be more elegant.

You must think.. would it break the game if you could have FIVE WHOLE tie Advanced? Nope. In fact, you'll even have 5 points to spare.

Also, your argument has already been addressed in my post.

Read the end of my post. Notably, the designers did this to the Rookie X at 21 points, and for 3 waves, it was absolutely necessary. Nowadays, Rookie Xs are overcosted by about 1 or 2 points and directly worse than Zs for the same amount of points.

Simply increasing its Attack value to 3 is a problem because then it's very close to both the Interceptor (3 points plus the cost if the title/mod/whatever to add 2 shields) and Defender (-8 points, minus the cost of the upgrade, for dropping 1 shield).

Obviously the dials and actions are different, but those are usually finer balancing elements than the straight stat line. There's just not enough room between the Interceptor and Defender to accommodate the TIE Advanced. FFG is going to have to do something trickier and/or more complicated.

so.. rockets are they only hope to be cost effective? sigma phantom cost 25 points and have 4 attack value

I'm not sure what you mean. The Phantom's 4/2/2/2 stat line makes it a very different ship from anything else in the game

drop 1 attack for 1 more hull and You get ??? oh yeah - the X-Wing ;-)

also phantom actions (without cloack) and dial is identical to TIE-f (without straight 5)

so the phantom is more similar to both core set ships than you think ;-)

They developers mentioned they were working on a title card to help the Advanced out.

As the Chaardaan refit (SP?) is already out for the A wing, essentially selling an upgrade slot, I doubt they will clone the same card for the Advanced.

I'd like to see a title that makes a missile super cheap. Something like

Strike Fighter

Title. TIE Advanced Only

You pay 3 less points for missiles added to this ship.

or

TIE Advanced II

Title. TIE Advanced Only

Add the Systems upgrade slot to the ship.

0 cost non-unique

I don't know if that is too much, but it needs either a special way to kick someone in the pants, or a point reduction that makes it favorable to just buying loaded up bombers in special circumstances. In this case, if you want a single missile point ship that's hard to kill.

Now where to put it? How about a Battle of Yavin mission pack?

Well. Actually. My old idea was to give it -3 and a systems slot. Actually. I do like that idea better because you could actually customize the ship to serve different roles.

I do think it'll be wise to have multiple titles. It would be unique and interesting. Otherwise. This ship has very few upgrade choices and is cost prohibitive on top of that

In the spirit of giving effectiveness to the Tie/Advanced attack without getting an extra die (which is boring indeed), how about something like this?

Gimbaled lasers - Modification - x pt (debatable)

When attacking, treat the defending base agility as 1 (cloaked phantom would be 3, defender would be 1,x-wing at range 3 would be 2).

In the spirit of giving effectiveness to the Tie/Advanced attack without getting an extra die (which is boring indeed), how about something like this?

Gimbaled lasers - Modification - x pt (debatable)

When attacking, treat the defending base agility as 1 (cloaked phantom would be 3, defender would be 1,x-wing at range 3 would be 2).

I swear I posted this before seeing the other thread.

I still like the idea of an onboard shield booster. Maybe shield batteries that recharge the shield to full capacity. One time use, Advanced only, and eats a missile slot. Or Shield Breeder Reactor which basically works like R2D2. Anything to give the Imps some durability that let's them recover shields or hull. Right now that is a Reb-only ability, and most of their ships are already beefy enough.

The best fix we've come up with is to just relax, have fun, and use the TIE Advanced because it's a sweet ship.

Also, try it in Epic.

How about something thematic, like

Leave Them to Me

ACTION: one-shot an x-wing, no friendly ships can attack this round.

Leave Them To Me

Imperial Only. Tie Series Only.

Action: Declare 1 enemy at range 1-2 in your firing arc as your target. Gain a target lock on this ship. During the combat phase you roll 1 additional attack die. No other friendly ship may attack this target in the combat phase and you must attack this ship.

Idea

Advance title - when a ship uses an atk against you preform a free barrel Roll before the attack dice are thrown. (4)

"Tie adv mk 2" title.

Increase agility by 1, increase hull by 1. 2/4/4/2

"Tie adv mk 2" title.

Increase agility by 1, increase hull by 1. 2/4/4/2

Broken much?

Although I just said that an Attack 3 Advanced is just a cheap defender, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm wrong. The dial is substantially different, and perhaps more importantly, the Defender has a Cannon slot. I've found that I use my cannon slot a lot on my Defender, and for me, it's starting to define its role. Let's say there's a 2-point title for the Advanced that adds an attack die (maybe costing a mod slot or missile slot). That makes it 7 points less than the hypothetical Defender of similar PS. 7 points for the Defender buys you the white K-turn, a shield, a cannon slot, and loses you the Evade action. Compared to the Interceptor, such an Advanced it would pay 4 points to get two shields, but lose an amazing dial and boost. I think that region, maybe at a point more, would be fairly different from either other ship. It should probably be a 3, maybe 4 point title to better split that difference.

If it's a 3 point title:

24 points for a 3/3/3/2 PS2 fighter

That seems fairly appropriate compared to other Imperial fighters, it gives you a solid medium fighter that is a bit lacking in the dial department. Compared to X-wings, it's probably a little too good, but then so are a lot of things. Is four of these in a list too good? I don't know. It'd be a tough list to face, because it's really durable with really solid firepower. It would play pretty differently than a 4 Interceptor list or a 3-elite Interceptor list. It would definitely be a solid choice if they were looking to counter turret ships. AGI 3 and 5 hit points for a reasonable cost, along with good red dice, should really be able to tear down some large ships pretty well. They also wouldn't be particularly good against Interceptors, as their dial leaves them with numerous disadvantages against maneuverable opponents.

I think just reduicing the price and adding the Systems option would be great. Imagine them getting Accuracy Corrector. They would always get two hits! Of course, I think you get to roll first and THEN make up your mind, which is fantastic.

No need to go crazy with stuff. Just reduce the price. Maybe make more green manuevers.