I think it will be between 13 or 14 points. I don't see it being 15 because then you are comparing it to an refit A-wing which it might have a similar dial to being an interceptor but it has 1 less shield. And the heavy is now the equivalent of a regular A-wing. So I think that the lack of a shield definitely lowers the cost below that of an A-wing. At 12 points we have the Z-95 and the Tie fighter to compare it to. It has 1 higher PS then the Tie,S&V Z and a shield less than the rebel Z but 1 higher defense die. I think it feels right at 12 but I don't see them actually putting it there. I think due to its over all stats and its action bar it will end at 13. I think if it was a 14 point ship the heavy upgrade would be 1 point instead of 2. I do realize the cost of being able to use secondary weapons was previously considered to be about 2 points but that most everyone agrees its too high. Even if it has an A-wing or an Interceptor dial I think the ship in its most basic form feels closer to being a Tie or a Z then an A-wing which is why I think it should be 12 or 13 points. Though I could see FFG making it 14 that just feels a little too high.

I speculate that it will cost 15$.

OMG I have stated this several times but I will state it again since no one ever listens to me: The PS8 pilot is 20 points. Assuming this ship follows standard protocol, subtract 6 points to get the PS2 generic. That makes it 14 points cheapest. The only variables are A. The pilot may pay for his ability (unlikely) and B. It's a trump ship like the Defender where 1 PS doesn't equal 1 point(again unlikely). I just don't understand why so much speculation goes into this when it is almost a given that it will be 14 points.

+1 Apparently I reached my like quota.

OMG I have stated this several times but I will state it again since no one ever listens to me: The PS8 pilot is 20 points. Assuming this ship follows standard protocol, subtract 6 points to get the PS2 generic. That makes it 14 points cheapest. The only variables are A. The pilot may pay for his ability (unlikely) and B. It's a trump ship like the Defender where 1 PS doesn't equal 1 point(again unlikely). I just don't understand why so much speculation goes into this when it is almost a given that it will be 14 points.

+1 Apparently I reached my like quota.

+1 again!

My take is 13-14 pts, leaning more on the 14pts. Dismissing the dial, when compared to a A-Wing, it has 1 shield less and barrel roll instead of boost. Now, I personally prefer barrel roll over boost but, not so much that it is worth the same as 1 more shield. So, if he has the dial similar to the A-Wing, 14 pts; similar to the Tie Fighter, 13 pts.

As I said in Developing List: Enter Sandaman, I'm guessing it is a tie with a slightly better dial and +1 PS (lowest will be 2 whereas the Z's will be 1) and TL. I can't fathom paying more than 13-14for that since you have to pay 2pts for it's best upgrades. 13-14pts would mean you could run 4x heavy Scyk with HLC at 88-92pts. I'm betting one of the other cannons will be cheaper and allow you to run 5 with a variety of cannons. Sounds PERFECT to me. I'd say it needs to be 13 just so it's competitive with the Z + illicit upgrades and missiles.

If you were going true swarm you're still going to need a few z's in there just like the empire can run an 8 tie with a few obsidians mixed in.

Really hoping the M3A comes in at 13 points for the lowest PS. Four of those + Heavy Scyk + HLC + Hull Upgrade (for durability and bomb-proofing). 25 points apiece for speedy HLCs sounds like fun!

Some very interesting points made in the thread, and happy that MJ has made his “Mathwing” assessment of cost based on the known info.

So I guess it all boils down to a few factors, but I think the primary directive would be to not overlap the S&V z95 generic and make it redundant.

So the main differences are:

Scyk Pros:

+2 extra actions

+1 PS

+1 Agility

Ability (For an additional cost) to load up canons etc.

More than likely to have a better dial (speculative of course)

Z95 Pros:

1+ Shield

Natural Missile Slot

Speculative illicit slot

I will confidently say that it won't cost 12 based on that pros/Cons list as I feel the Scyk is the obvious choice if they were to cost the same points if your looking for a naked swarmer, the question is whether all of the pros – the +1 shield is worth 1 or 2 points. I think I'm still inclined to say 14 and I will very much be interested to see what it is when it does come out.

Just from a balance perspective, I think 14 is the lowest they could go. That gives you a 23-point HLC ship, which both prevents people running more than 4 and prevents too many other upgrades backing up that (rather insane) amount of firepower.

Just from a balance perspective, I think 14 is the lowest they could go. That gives you a 23-point HLC ship, which both prevents people running more than 4 and prevents too many other upgrades backing up that (rather insane) amount of firepower.

Good point, I can't imagine them wanting a “Build your own Phantom” effects

13 Point Scyk + Heavy Scyk + HLC + Stealth Device comes to 25 Points, virtually cloaked full time, no defensive range bonus at range 3 for defenders (but of course only throwing 3 attack die at rage 1) and obviously 1 less shield.

Would be very interested to see this against 4 x Sigma Squadron list.

I suspect a 3 and 5 pt cannon that will make things a bit more interesting and allow for a 5th ship in that list.

What if PS wasn't starting at 2? They've said and shown that PS will not be S&V's strength, if its only Ewing good dial would you still say 14?

Interesting question, however I would say that due to the E-Wing dial being the Z95 dial almost exactly with the exception of additional 5 Straight and a 4k moves (and 3 straight bumped to green) the manoeuvres would overlap too much for the ship cost to be too similar.

I fully expect the Scyk dial to be somewhere between the Tie Fighter and the A-Wing.

As a minimum I expect it to have 1 turns, which is almost always better than 1 banks when you factor in the barrel roll action

What about PS 1 and exactly the tie dial? Is that 14pts?

What abou PS 1 and exactly the awing dial? Is they 14pts?

I'm thinking its all going to depend on final PS and on how cheap they make those cannons. 14 feels like poor value when compared to the tie and rebel z. But neither can go HEAVY. But Heavy cost 2...

What about PS 1 and exactly the tie dial? Is that 14pts?

What abou PS 1 and exactly the awing dial? Is they 14pts?

With my formula (and a X-Wing dial), the PS2 Would be 13, the PS5 would be 16 and Laetin A'shera 18 and Serissu 20.

What about PS 1 and exactly the tie dial? Is that 14pts?

What abou PS 1 and exactly the awing dial? Is they 14pts?

First off: it's not PS1. It's PS2. Clearly visible in the promo pictures.

With the TIE Fighter's dial, I could see it being 14 points at PS2. It has an extra action at its disposal (TL), and an extra upgrade option (illicit), and trades 1 hull for 1 shield (always a plus), and has no cons to offset any of that. Besides the price, of course.

With the A-wing's dial, 15 would be the minimum. It would basically be an A-wing that trades 1 shield for an extra PS and an upgrade option, which sounds fair to me.

The Scyk doesn't have the illicit upgrade slot. A shield and boost for a PS and barrel roll doesn't sound like a fair trade to me, so like I said earlier, if it has a dial similar to the A-Wing: 14pts.

Scum Z-95 will have ilicit slots

With my formula (and a X-Wing dial), the PS2 Would be 13, the PS5 would be 16 and Laetin A'shera 18 and Serissu 20.

But that formula also predicts that the Z-95 should be what, 9 points?

Yeah, all point formulas are complete crapshoots after Wave 3 and the HWK.

Yeah, all point formulas are complete crapshoots after Wave 3 and the HWK.

The HWK is the one ship that I haven't spent much time MathWinging, because it needs a turret to be useful, and the only useful turret right now is the Ion Cannon Turret. The Gold Squadron Pilot makes a slightly better value turret platform than the HWK-290.

Some very interesting points made in the thread, and happy that MJ has made his “Mathwing” assessment of cost based on the known info.

I'll have to run this again later when I have the real numbers in front of me, but the jousting value of a HLC Scyk would be around 19 points at PS1, suggesting that a cost of 13+2+7=22 at PS2 would be slightly overpaying for the privilege. It would certainly be a glass cannon, that's for sure. It's overall value is going to depend on its dial, and how much the PS2 costs.

I've had fun with Recon Spec, Moldy Crow, and the Blaster Turret. And I intend to turn Jan into a blast boat with Kyle Crew once Aces drops. Sure, you don't have to build around the Ion Cannon, but there are some decent builds with the Blaster Turret.

You can use moldy crow and blaster turret, without even recon spec, just spend few turns going 1 forward banking focus

The HWK is the one ship that I haven't spent much time MathWinging, because it needs a turret to be useful

I agree for the most part, but I think between the Z-95 and Rebel Aces refit, you might find you can fit a HWK in without a turret.

Jan + Saboteur, and 6 Bandits. Jan can pump up the Bandits, and saboteur on damage done.

Kyle + Jan, Squad Leader and 5 Prototypes w/Refit. Kyle hands out focus which Jan can convert to Evades.

Maybe not great lists, but both would let you use the HWK effectively without including a turret. The HWK isn't much of a threat so it would be low on the kill list, but even if it does die it doesn't hurt the lists extensively. Again maybe not something I'd take to Worlds, but could be fun to play.

The HWK is the one ship that I haven't spent much time MathWinging, because it needs a turret to be useful

I agree for the most part, but I think between the Z-95 and Rebel Aces refit, you might find you can fit a HWK in without a turret.

Jan + Saboteur, and 6 Bandits. Jan can pump up the Bandits, and saboteur on damage done.

Kyle + Jan, Squad Leader and 5 Prototypes w/Refit. Kyle hands out focus which Jan can convert to Evades.

Maybe not great lists, but both would let you use the HWK effectively without including a turret. The HWK isn't much of a threat so it would be low on the kill list, but even if it does die it doesn't hurt the lists extensively. Again maybe not something I'd take to Worlds, but could be fun to play.

That is one really wonky idea! It's crazy enough it might actually work.

Well, probably not, but we should make a new thread: competition to see who can make the best wave 6 HWK build that does NOT use a turret! We'll have to wait and see more about the Scum pilots.

Yeah, all point formulas are complete crapshoots after Wave 3 and the HWK.

The HWK is the one ship that I haven't spent much time MathWinging, because it needs a turret to be useful, and the only useful turret right now is the Ion Cannon Turret. The Gold Squadron Pilot makes a slightly better value turret platform than the HWK-290.

Some very interesting points made in the thread, and happy that MJ has made his “Mathwing” assessment of cost based on the known info.

I'll have to run this again later when I have the real numbers in front of me, but the jousting value of a HLC Scyk would be around 19 points at PS1, suggesting that a cost of 13+2+7=22 at PS2 would be slightly overpaying for the privilege. It would certainly be a glass cannon, that's for sure. It's overall value is going to depend on its dial, and how much the PS2 costs.

I don't see 13 points as too high for PS2. 12 Points would mean compared to a standard Tie (which has the same points cost): it has better defence than (shield over hull), an extra action (Target Lock), and an extra pilot skill, at the cost of possibly a worse dial. Not exactly balanced. So 13 pts for PS2 base seems fine. I wouldn't even be surprised at seeing it at 14 points - and basing it on using one of the new cannons.