But it is iconic that the Empire has big ships, and rather not iconic for the rebels to be outclassing the Empire in the big ship department.

Not sure you've got the definition of iconic right there. I think you mean thematic.

Yeah I went to order a simple y-wing but they are either sold out or they've raised the price in order to gouge, got a hawk for £10 though so I'll have eleven ships ready when wave six hits which is plenty.

Can't wait.

I don't understand the mass buying of crossover ships. With the HWK maybe if you didn't have a HWK already, but the Y-wing? It comes with a Y-wing! Buy a rebel Y-wing and that's what you'll get: a Rebel Y-wing with Rebel plates and Rebel pilots.

Adding Scum ships does not make this a Galaxies sourced game. If it was, well, it wouldn't be pretty...

Thought we couldn't come up with even weirder ships?

YOU THOUGHT WRONG

Imperial Star Fighter Development Division

Sticking More Wings on TIE Fighters Since 1994

Im not seeing the problem here, both of these ties look fine to me.

I'll take 4 of each please FFG

I dunno, they do look a bit 'desperate' to me.

There is only so much you can do with circular cockpit and an octagonal or triangular wing shape.

It seems odd to me that someone can be a Star Wars fan and not be excited by more Star Wars stuff. Like, if you care enough about Star Wars to want to play a Star Wars miniatures game, why would you not want to have more ships and stuff? As long as it is true to Star Wars canon and fits in with the rest of the universe and the theme of the game, what's not to love? The game would get incredibly dull if it was just X-Wings and Y-Wings vs TIE Fighters and the TIE Advanced.

This.

But I need to add: why do some people have such a problem with Expanded Universe craft but have no problem with using the pilots?

Do you use gray squadron pilot. Garvin Dres (sorry about my spelling:-P)

Well I hate to break this to you but they are EXPANDED UNIVERSE!!!

Yes I know that Garvin is red leader but his na.e was never spoken, EU gave him his name.

The same goes for almost all of the X-Wing pilots

That's not how hype works though. It's like saying that the people who love S&V aren't still waiting and clamouring at the bits for more info because it's been announced. If anything, the people who were wishing for a third faction are more excited than ever exactly because they know it's coming now (and rightfully so).

Indeed. And once we actually see an announcement about Imperial Huge ships, the hype will likely go through the roof.

But we haven't had an announcement so far - all we have is speculation and wishlisting. Which is fine, of course, there was plenty of that for the 3rd faction as well. We had speculation and wishlisting for a 3rd faction since the launch of the game.

Well, yes, but my point is that we weren't sure there ever was going to be a third faction, whereas we were plenty sure there was going to be an Imperial Epic ship the moment the Corvette got announced.

It's a battle of what people expected versus what people hoped. And not getting what you expect tends to generate more confusion and rage than not getting what you hoped.

its silly to get upset about eu ships and eu characters then play a game in which garvin dreis fights boba fett given that Garvin is *dead* and at no point does Fett actually ever fly alongside anything smaller than a star destroyer or dogfight with an x wing.

I love the OT, its my fave, i'm indifferent about the prequels, i'm excited by 'rebels' and a new film, i like some EU (mainly the tie fighter era sim games) but the game handles *abstractions*, it's not a simulation.

If you're a purist then you cant play anything other than Yavin with about 4/5ths of xwing pilots.

Any list that has Biggs and whats his name who crashes his A wing into a star destroyer in it makes less sense than having a HWK in it...

The money argument is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. You don't like it because you can't afford it? Ooook..

Im not seeing the problem here, both of these ties look fine to me.

I'll take 4 of each please FFG

I 100% agree that the releases are coming too quickly. Can anyone remember a chap called Keyan Farlander? He's not even out yet but people's imagination have moved way beyond the unreleased and 100% spoiled rebel aces.

Meh, the less Keyan "Brakes the game in half" Farlander sky is falling threads, the better.

Meh, the less "Brakes the game" sky is falling threads, the better.

Fixed!

Meh, the less Keyan "Brakes the game in half" Farlander sky is falling threads, the better.

While I agree completely, it does seem a bit like we've gotten past Rebel Aces and it's not even released yet. But part of that is the fact that so few people have it, that there just isn't much chatter about it, once it's in stores you'll see a lot more discussion about it.

That's just the thing. It wouldn't make a big difference to you, but it would to me, even if you don't understand how or why. We all win.

No, the thing is there is zero difference at all. None. It's a rose by any other name. Any attempt to make it more or less than that is semantics, which in a discussion like this has no place. We're talking about whether or not they should have released a third faction, and if your "solution" is the same as theirs, which it is in every relevant way, then your point is moot.

Meh, the less Keyan "Brakes the game in half" Farlander sky is falling threads, the better.

While I agree completely, it does seem a bit like we've gotten past Rebel Aces and it's not even released yet. But part of that is the fact that so few people have it, that there just isn't much chatter about it, once it's in stores you'll see a lot more discussion about it.

This. While the new announcements are certainly dominating the conversation right now, I think the lack of Keyan has more to do with nothing much more to discuss. There's only so much theory crafting and speculation to be done.

The money argument is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. You don't like it because you can't afford it? Ooook..

I admit it. Now that I look back, it does seem a bit silly to think that way. I think probably the root of my displeasure was that I had been saving money for the Imperial huge ship, and wasn't sure how much longer I could hold onto it. Now I am certain I'll have spent it all by the time it comes out. The difference is that now I'm excited about the new ships and can't wait to try them out!

for those who think scum and villainy have no place in fighting 2 military forces.......

rebels are wanted criminals, any crime organization will take a chance at capturing these rogues and turning them in, or they are fighting for the same contraband to sell on the black market that rebels want for their cause.

scum and villainy are mostly outlaws themselves, so being hunted by the empire or raiding empire convoys for spoils is totally reasonable. hell, even being hired by a rebel operative to hit a certain target to draw attention away from a rebel operation is within the realm of reason.

please don't try to reason against this, if you read any novels or comics, this is abundantly clear.

Sorry for the resurrect, but I was a little busy to respond in kind.

I will reason against this. The examples in this post, as well some examples from the films, isn't what's happening in X-Wing.

I didn't read any of the novels or comics, but all the examples to counter my point of view don't actually address what I'm talking about. If someone could give an example, I would appreciate it.

1)The criminal elements bounty hunt, steal, raid, assassinate, etc. When does this happen in X-Wing? (hint: it doesn't)

2)In all these examples of what the criminal factions do, they don't involve deathmatch type engagements. Say Boba Fett, for instance, doesn't engage other Rebels to get to Solo, he just follows him around and tattles on him when the time is right. It doesn't make sense for a Bounty Hunter to attack a military head on. A lot of people bring up the Kath Scarlet example...cool, but if her raid didn't go well, she would just leave, right? There's no point in her fighting to the death to steal something if she's not going to be around to use it. Same thing with Mercenaries, Pirates, etc. It is against their nature to fight to the death.

3) You might be able to bring up an example of "Hey cody, what about when Black Sun did X, or this pirate group fought to the death protecting Y" but another problem is we're not getting those people in X-Wing. We're getting some semi-generic, no one in particular, bad people in general, faction. I could understand if the third faction was identified as someone specific, since they might have more of a stake attacking/defending Rebs/Imps to the death.

I'm sorry if this ruffles any feathers, but it's a real interest killer for me. Does it make the game mechanics any less interesting? Probably not, but there's plenty of excellent games out there, that isn't rare. The rare thing I like about X-Wing is the ability to craft a small narrative based on what we already know about the films/books/whatever. If I'm controlling pirates, I want to operate like I'm a pirate (slippery, deceitful, cowardly) not operate like I'm in a military engagement.

So, hopefully that's reason enough. I feel that it is.

The rare thing I like about X-Wing is the ability to craft a small narrative based on what we already know about the films/books/whatever.

I get that... But at what point does a group of say 3-5 Rebel ships fighting a group of 6-8 Tie fighters in the middle of nowhere actually fit a narrative?

For one thing those Ties can't get very far, so where's their carrier? Also what reason does the RA have to engage those fighters rather then running away? What are they gaining that's worth the risk of losing the ships? It's not like the RA can replace ships like the Empire can. So blowing up even 8 ties at a loss of 1 ship isn't really a net victory for them.

So any narrative you come up with has to involve stuff off table as it were. The Rebels are keeping the fighters occupied while something else happens, or maybe they're screening a ship, or they're on a raid and once they remove the escort they can hit the real target... But all of that involves stuff off the table.

The same can be said of the S&V faction, in fact much of what they would do isn't that dissimilar from what the Rebel Alliance would be doing.

The same can be said of the S&V faction, in fact much of what they would do isn't that dissimilar from what the Rebel Alliance would be doing.

I disagree, but at that point we'd be arguing intangible things. Regardless of what the Rebs/Imps are doing narratively, the way they interact in the game is more or less how they would be doing it in the narrative.

While there might be occasions a bounty hunter and his two homies want to wipe out a TIE Squadron, they is no game mechanic for hit and run tactic or actual bounty hunting. I would have preferred a new game type that makes the new ships an auxiliary faction, not a complete one.

For a rough example, say you're at a tournament. You're a Rebel player, but you bring along a Bossk. You "place a bounty" on Howlrunner, Mauler Mithel, and Captain Yorr. Every time your opponent fields someone you have a bounty on, Bossk gets to be a part of your squad (for free, unless you upgrade him). However, if your other ships die, Bossk leaves and you lose the game. He might also have an ability that de-buffs ALL ships at range 1 (including yours) so he's not too powerful.

Something to that effect. While you could argue "Bossk never helped the Rebels!" at least he is Bounty Hunting and operating like we'd expect him to, rather than straight up dogfighting.

Perhaps I'm just being too particular, but that's more along the lines of what I would prefer.

1)The criminal elements bounty hunt, steal, raid, assassinate, etc. When does this happen in X-Wing? (hint: it doesn't)

2)In all these examples of what the criminal factions do, they don't involve deathmatch type engagements. Say Boba Fett, for instance, doesn't engage other Rebels to get to Solo, he just follows him around and tattles on him when the time is right. It doesn't make sense for a Bounty Hunter to attack a military head on. A lot of people bring up the Kath Scarlet example...cool, but if her raid didn't go well, she would just leave, right? There's no point in her fighting to the death to steal something if she's not going to be around to use it. Same thing with Mercenaries, Pirates, etc. It is against their nature to fight to the death.

Contrary to popular gamer belief, military forces rarely just line up and beat on each other for the fun of it (well, at least they haven't since trench warfare went out of style in WWI). There's ALWAYS an objective. In a tactical game like X-wing, especially one that doesn't leverage scenarios very much, those objectives are off-board. The game itself can be seen as generally about establishing air superiority to enable something else. That "something else" may be different for a Scum vs. Imperial fight than a Rebel vs. Imperial fight, but it doesn't mean it's not there. It's always protecting a transport ship, or stopping a spy, or capturing a target, or destroying a strategic target. Any objective you invent in your head for Rebel vs. Imperial can work for Scum with a minor tweak.

It's also, honestly, against EVERYONE'S nature to fight to the death. A quick check of historical figures from WWII cite an 80% casualty rate for USAAC daylight bombing raids, which are generally considered to be one of the greatest mistakes of the war. Star Wars loves its do-or-die scenarios, but you can't be in a desperate bid to stop a superweapon EVERY time.

3) You might be able to bring up an example of "Hey cody, what about when Black Sun did X, or this pirate group fought to the death protecting Y" but another problem is we're not getting those people in X-Wing. We're getting some semi-generic, no one in particular, bad people in general, faction. I could understand if the third faction was identified as someone specific, since they might have more of a stake attacking/defending Rebs/Imps to the death.

But we do have these very specific people. Yes, the faction as a whole is broad, but it contains each of these subfactions, including their named superstars. If you want to focus on Black Sun, you can. If you want to be all about bounty hunters, it looks like you'll have an abundance of choices. You're arguing that there's no strawberries when the table has every kind of fruit imaginable, including strawberries.

I'm sorry if this ruffles any feathers, but it's a real interest killer for me. Does it make the game mechanics any less interesting? Probably not, but there's plenty of excellent games out there, that isn't rare. The rare thing I like about X-Wing is the ability to craft a small narrative based on what we already know about the films/books/whatever. If I'm controlling pirates, I want to operate like I'm a pirate (slippery, deceitful, cowardly) not operate like I'm in a military engagement.

X-wing does not operate like you're in a military engagement either, as pointed out above. It's a fun tactical game. If you can make a head narrative out 4 Rookies with Proton Torpedoes attacking a training flight of Howlrunner and seven Academy Pilots, but can't do anything with Boba Fett teaming up with IG-88 and hiring a few mercs from a Hutt cartel to help him collect the bounty on Wedge... <shrug>

No ruffled feathers here, but the problem isn't with the game, the world, or the factions, it's with the effort you're putting into it. The story is there just as much - if not more - than with Rebel vs. Imperial. It just requires the same amount of effort to create, rather than just declaring it all wrong and throwing up your hands.

While there might be occasions a bounty hunter and his two homies want to wipe out a TIE Squadron, they is no game mechanic for hit and run tactic or actual bounty hunting.

There's an argument to be made, I think, that this relies on an overly literal interpretation of "bounty hunter". In the real world--or in the US, at any rate, which is at least sometimes coterminous with the real world--bounty hunters are people who track down accused criminals who violate bail. In the Star Wars universe, though, "bounty hunter" essentially appears to be a high-profile mercenary for hire.

2)In all these examples of what the criminal factions do, they don't involve deathmatch type engagements. Say Boba Fett, for instance, doesn't engage other Rebels to get to Solo, he just follows him around and tattles on him when the time is right. It doesn't make sense for a Bounty Hunter to attack a military head on. A lot of people bring up the Kath Scarlet example...cool, but if her raid didn't go well, she would just leave, right? There's no point in her fighting to the death to steal something if she's not going to be around to use it. Same thing with Mercenaries, Pirates, etc. It is against their nature to fight to the death.

As much as people try to deny them, there is more to Star Wars than the original trilogy. And in the prequels, we saw the Slave-I going head to head with a rather famous figure of the government. In space. In an asteroid belt.

You really can't get more X-wing than that.

To give an example of 'simple' narrative that added flavour.

In a recent game my wife fielded her pretty much constant core ship of 'kath scarlet' in her firespray with some academy pilots as escort. She also took 'rebel captive' as a card on the firespray.

Thestory was then simple, the rebels had jumped the prisoner transport on the way to an imperial prison with the intention of capturing the firespray (for sake of argument 'destroyed' equalled unable to fight and able to be boarded)... they jumped out of hyperspace to ambush Kath and her escort.

It was still a 100 point knock about but it had a real story feel to it.

I am officially renaming Rebel Captive to "High Value Target" when I play against other imperial squads. I have had people look at me and ask "Do I still get the stress since it is a rebel captive?"

While there might be occasions a bounty hunter and his two homies want to wipe out a TIE Squadron, they is no game mechanic for hit and run tactic or actual bounty hunting.

The rebels used hit and run tactics pretty much exclusively expect for the battle of Endor, the avoided pitched fights at all costs. They also never would of attacked Imperial forces unless they were trying to gain something by doing so.

Yet there's no game mechanics for any of that.

Something to that effect.

While what you suggest is interesting and could make for a fun mission, it has no place at all in a tournament environment.

I'm taking bets to see how many threads there can be that fear the sky is falling without actually saying it.