Imperial huge ships are not actually required for Epic to be a decent game. If anything, most accounts of the huge ships are that they're underwhelming in epic play, making fighter swarms a better bet anyway. And as such, the line is at a perfectly reasonable point...

This is partially true. In a competitive environment, the current rules for the CR90 and GR75 are underwhelming compared to fielding an equivalent number of standard starfighters.

HOWEVER...

These two ships are not designed for or even permissible in standard play. They're designed for Epic play. 300 point games, on a larger battle area. And they will come into their own when they have ships of similar scale and scope to face off against.

Are the CR90 and GR75 competitive against the current X-Wing range? Are they hell. But they're fun to use. A hell of a lot of fun to use. And if there wasd an Imperial equivalent, they'd be even more fun to use.

So the viability of the Rebel huge ships in Epic play relies on an opponent intentionally taking a weak build?

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If Imperial huge ships aren't better than fighters, nobody will take them. If they ARE better than fighters and countered by Rebel huge ships, nobody will take them, because why take what has a counter?

If Fighters = Fighters, and Huge = Huge, and Fighter > Huge, Fighters win. period.

MURDERFANG! MURDERFANG!!! BUY MURDERFANG NAOW!!!!1!!!1!!!ELEVEN!!

Murderfang? A dreadnought with a bare head? where are my sniper drones at? BOOM HEADSHOT!

Make bjorn the fellhanded instead...

How many months has it been since epic play was introduced?

You mean, how long has it been since the end of May? About two and a half months.

Imo I really feel as though they dropped epic play.

We'll award you the silver medal in conclusion-jumping; you're just as convincing as Lilikin, and your routine has a similar level of technical difficulty, but there just seems like a bit less passion in your performance.

The fact that a Huge ship wasn't announced today is not equivalent to an announcement that there will never be another Epic ship.

Great Looking

Balanced Rules

Imminent Release

Pick Two.

Honestly, I can understand you from a point of view of "He got an ice cream, I want one too!" Yea, I'm an Imp player too, and I want a nice Epic ship as well. But I just finished buying TWO a month or two ago. I haven't even had time to game them ONCE. Give FFG a break, they havn't wronged us yet. And GW have. Almost every day.

*pats my nephilim jetfighter* It's okay, I'm sure the 8th edition codex will give you a decent cost and ruleset. But till then, the wolf gunships make you a $100 paperweight.

In my opinion, announcing a third faction is a much bigger announcement than an Imperial huge ship. An Imperial huge ship could be announced whenever and we'd be like "Oh sweet, finally." But a whole new faction? That deserves a big event like GenCon. We'll get out Imperial huge, just you wait and see

I actually agree with this post. Announcing a new faction deserves a big stage, and will have a much bigger impact on the game as a whole.

However, the much-lauded Epic & Cinematic variants of game are in dire need of an Imperial boost.

They released epic ships which made people buy into X Wing (the reason I did) and now they wont even release some imperial Huge for a decent game so they just release a totally new game to make even more money and ditch the unfinished X Wing line before they even started to complete it.

When you release a line you're making a promise to at least leave it at a reasonable point and this isn't it.

It's not like it isn't making money.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I feel ripped off frankly.

At least with games like mansions of madness you know it isn't selling but a new game then dump a whole play style because actually it could make more as a new game is GW cynical.

I know nothing of GW as I Newberry played there games, but I'm super pissed at this announcement and no epic ships.

Frankly I feel like was kicked in the balls.

Not impressed at all

As much respect I've had for ffg I've lost a lot for them today.

Taking to a lot others and I know I'm not alone.

I think this is a bag move on ffg part.

Sure few people who are here are happy, but I'm hearing more negative than positive

This sums up the general problem with these threads quite accurately. There is not even an iota of necessity for everyone to agree with or like the new announcement and releases, or any for that matter, but making comments like 'they kicked you in the balls' or 'they no longer deserve your respect' are personal comments, and show that the real source of the issue is that some people seem to think that FFG (or any company for that matter) are out to cater solely to what they and people of like mind to them want from a product specifically. People seem to have forgotten that a company has to cater to all demographics and ideas, and not everybody will agree. The fact that they are currently releasing a new wave plus a name game neither (a) means that they will not release the huge Imperial ship you really want later on, or (b) that they are doing this as some corporate money grab to you personally, because to put it bluntly, that implies that they care about the demographic idea of you and yours more than anyone elses'. If people are personally offended by perfectly valid business decisions, the full details of which are not fully known, then some people need to take a step back and take a greater look at the world.

No I don't feel at all as though they have to cater to me.

I do feel that when they introduced something that many if USspend money on,that they continue to support it.

Rather than feel like it has been dripped.

That's why I feel like I was kicked in the balls.

If there is no imperial huge ship then I really don't feel the need to use what I bought into, in turn makes me feel like I was swindled out of my money.

I'd expect that from other companies and not ffg which is why this makes me lose respect for them.

I just facepalmed so hard, my teeth flew out the back of my head...

How many months has it been since epic play was introduced?

You mean, how long has it been since the end of May? About two and a half months.

Imo I really feel as though they dropped epic play.

We'll award you the silver medal in conclusion-jumping; you're just as convincing as Lilikin, and your routine has a similar level of technical difficulty, but there just seems like a bit less passion in your performance.

The fact that a Huge ship wasn't announced today is not equivalent to an announcement that there will never be another Epic ship.

And you know what? Even if it IS the end of epic play, I don't believe we were ever promised that Epic would be an ongoing, equally-developed part of the game. It's entirely possible that it's a fun sideline, intended primarily for campaign play with cinematic ships that everyone will recognize... and that's it.

People are acting like FFG made them some sort of personal promise, then came to their house, kicked in that door, and shaved "SCREW YOU WE'RE NOT MAKING THE SHIPS WE TOLD YOU WE'D MAKE" on the side of their dog.

Maybe they just realized there wasn't much to do. Maybe they realized that a Vigil that was 12" long would be around 6" wide, and it just wouldn't work physically, or would cost too much to pack and ship, or the Corvette at $90 didn't sell all that great and putting out a ship with 3x as much material and a $150 price point was a losing proposition.

Or maybe none of that, and you'll get your Imperial huge ship in a few months.

But I'm sorry, to be blunt here - epic is a sideline. It's a curiosity. It's a massively expensive format compared to regular X-wing, with games that take three times as long. It's not now, nor will it ever be, an equally-supported part of X-wing, and if you think it is, you're deluding yourself. So if they DID drop Epic play, it will be because it wasn't going anywhere, even if you happen to love it personally.

Exactly Glentopher, and I don't think we can reiterate enough how not announcing an Imperial huge ship now doesn't mean it will never happen.

Also interesting how to 'injured parties' have not once made a direct response to this statement the numerous times it has been meant by several posters.

So let me ask directly; Krynn007, how is the lack of a huge ship announcement at Gencon an omen that they are never going to make any more huge ships? Can you explain how this is the unquestionable truth that you and the OP make it out to be? Can you justify how you are not jumping to conclusions? Why was Gencon "THE" stage to make this announcement, to be point where a lack of announcement at Gencon heralds the inevitable demise of Epic?

How many months has it been since epic play was introduced?

You mean, how long has it been since the end of May? About two and a half months.

Imo I really feel as though they dropped epic play.

We'll award you the silver medal in conclusion-jumping; you're just as convincing as Lilikin, and your routine has a similar level of technical difficulty, but there just seems like a bit less passion in your performance.

The fact that a Huge ship wasn't announced today is not equivalent to an announcement that there will never be another Epic ship.

And you know what? Even if it IS the end of epic play, I don't believe we were ever promised that Epic would be an ongoing, equally-developed part of the game. It's entirely possible that it's a fun sideline, intended primarily for campaign play with cinematic ships that everyone will recognize... and that's it.

People are acting like FFG made them some sort of personal promise, then came to their house, kicked in that door, and shaved "SCREW YOU WE'RE NOT MAKING THE SHIPS WE TOLD YOU WE'D MAKE" on the side of their dog.

Maybe they just realized there wasn't much to do. Maybe they realized that a Vigil that was 12" long would be around 6" wide, and it just wouldn't work physically, or would cost too much to pack and ship, or the Corvette at $90 didn't sell all that great and putting out a ship with 3x as much material and a $150 price point was a losing proposition.

Or maybe none of that, and you'll get your Imperial huge ship in a few months.

But I'm sorry, to be blunt here - epic is a sideline. It's a curiosity. It's a massively expensive format compared to regular X-wing, with games that take three times as long. It's not now, nor will it ever be, an equally-supported part of X-wing, and if you think it is, you're deluding yourself. So if they DID drop Epic play, it will be because it wasn't going anywhere, even if you happen to love it personally.

What if I told you that they did in fact shave my dog but with " NO YOU CANT HAVE A STAR DESTROYER " Instead?

Imperial huge ships are not actually required for Epic to be a decent game. If anything, most accounts of the huge ships are that they're underwhelming in epic play, making fighter swarms a better bet anyway. And as such, the line is at a perfectly reasonable point...

This is partially true. In a competitive environment, the current rules for the CR90 and GR75 are underwhelming compared to fielding an equivalent number of standard starfighters.

HOWEVER...

These two ships are not designed for or even permissible in standard play. They're designed for Epic play. 300 point games, on a larger battle area. And they will come into their own when they have ships of similar scale and scope to face off against.

Are the CR90 and GR75 competitive against the current X-Wing range? Are they hell. But they're fun to use. A hell of a lot of fun to use. And if there wasd an Imperial equivalent, they'd be even more fun to use.

So the viability of the Rebel huge ships in Epic play relies on an opponent intentionally taking a weak build?

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If Imperial huge ships aren't better than fighters, nobody will take them. If they ARE better than fighters and countered by Rebel huge ships, nobody will take them, because why take what has a counter?

If Fighters = Fighters, and Huge = Huge, and Fighter > Huge, Fighters win. period.

Well no, all they have to do is say that in a epic game both sides must field at least one ship worth 2 epic points.

It's not that I want my opponent to have a weak squad. Not at all.

But really I feel as though the epic ships are not really ment to take on sher numbers.

Like I said. Take your A game and go against another with imperials with what I mentioned above.

Good luck.

So in the end epic at both sides don't even use huge ships.

Again money wasted

What if I told you that they did in fact shave my dog but with " NO YOU CANT HAVE A STAR DESTROYER " Instead?

Pics or it didn't happen.

What if I told you that they did in fact shave my dog but with " NO YOU CANT HAVE A STAR DESTROYER " Instead?

Pics or it didn't happen.

Edit: would it be cruel to get my neighbors dog and shave it?

Mine sadly isn't here anymore.

I just got into this game. I am excited about the new faction more that the idea of an Imperial epic ship. I used to play a game that had regular units and then introduced epic type units. That was cool with the addition of special rules and the opposing players permission said units could be used. Then more epic type units came out... then the rules changed to allow anyone to play whatever the hell they wanted... then a lot of people were mad and angry and sad and many salty tears of defeat were let out.

Honestly this is a game that has Epic play, it is not centralized to epic play. Epic play is not even forced on you. Just because epic ships came out less than a handful of months ago, and none are out for the Imperials does not mean that FFG is abandoning it.

If you want to feel real pain and suffering, and I do not wish this on anyone, but if you for some sadistic reason want to. Go to DakkaDakka or Warseer after the release of a GW product. Read all the posts for a week then come back here and be glad FFG gives a **** about the game they are designing and support it as well as they do.

I feel like rebel players are always having to play mommy to the poor crying imperials.

YOU ARE MEANT TO BE HARD ARSE OPPRESSIVE TYRANTS GET WITH THE PROGRAM

Kind of hard to be the big bully when you lack the 'big' part...

How many months has it been since epic play was introduced?

You mean, how long has it been since the end of May? About two and a half months.

Imo I really feel as though they dropped epic play.

We'll award you the silver medal in conclusion-jumping; you're just as convincing as Lilikin, and your routine has a similar level of technical difficulty, but there just seems like a bit less passion in your performance.

The fact that a Huge ship wasn't announced today is not equivalent to an announcement that there will never be another Epic ship.

And you know what? Even if it IS the end of epic play, I don't believe we were ever promised that Epic would be an ongoing, equally-developed part of the game. It's entirely possible that it's a fun sideline, intended primarily for campaign play with cinematic ships that everyone will recognize... and that's it.

People are acting like FFG made them some sort of personal promise, then came to their house, kicked in that door, and shaved "SCREW YOU WE'RE NOT MAKING THE SHIPS WE TOLD YOU WE'D MAKE" on the side of their dog.

Maybe they just realized there wasn't much to do. Maybe they realized that a Vigil that was 12" long would be around 6" wide, and it just wouldn't work physically, or would cost too much to pack and ship, or the Corvette at $90 didn't sell all that great and putting out a ship with 3x as much material and a $150 price point was a losing proposition.

Or maybe none of that, and you'll get your Imperial huge ship in a few months.

But I'm sorry, to be blunt here - epic is a sideline. It's a curiosity. It's a massively expensive format compared to regular X-wing, with games that take three times as long. It's not now, nor will it ever be, an equally-supported part of X-wing, and if you think it is, you're deluding yourself. So if they DID drop Epic play, it will be because it wasn't going anywhere, even if you happen to love it personally.

Well fine, if that's the case then don't release epic play tournament rules.

If it's just a sideline, then why make the rules?

You mean to tell me that it never looked like we were going to get a huge epic ship?

Ya, I feel as though I was ripped off if that is the case.

I never said I was promised but you can't deny that it is odd to release epic tournament rules and one side gets treatment?

You can't help but to think more is coming and buy into it.

Your right about one thing then

You can't trust ffg if that's the case.

The differences between GW and FFG are :

- They actually playtest their products.

- They actually care about what their players wants.

- They keep a low enough entry barrier so people can actually play their games instead of daydreaming about one day getting an army big enough to play standard games.

To be honest, this thread is just flamebaiting and looking for unneccesary arguements.

Is FFG a company ? Yes.

It is not about being cynical, but profitable. And they are profitable, while they are pleasing their customer base, while being smart enough to not push newcomers out their games. I don't see the problem.

GW isn't cynical or evil. GW is just incompetent and out of touch. You could check annual's report presentation written by Kirby to understand my statement. He is nuts, but the stupid way.

And yes, i can understand being dissappointed on the no new epic ships today. But i think you are being impatient. Very impatient. You want it now, and it is not gonna happen. You realize that the releases FFG is announcing, is not stuff they decided to do the month before to GenCon, right ? There is planning, marketing strategies, etc at hand. It is fine you voice your dissapointment, but don't get too silly about it.

I feel like rebel players are always having to play mommy to the poor crying imperials.

YOU ARE MEANT TO BE HARD ARSE OPPRESSIVE TYRANTS GET WITH THE PROGRAM

Kind of hard to be the big bully when you lack the 'big' part...

You Imps will get your Epic ships just be patient.

I feel like rebel players are always having to play mommy to the poor crying imperials.

YOU ARE MEANT TO BE HARD ARSE OPPRESSIVE TYRANTS GET WITH THE PROGRAM

Kind of hard to be the big bully when you lack the 'big' part...

Have you seen the Desimator? They had to make the **** box bigger just to fit the thing in.

You Imps will get your Epic ships just be patient.

Oh yeah! And another thing.

Have you guys seen the Decimator? It's almost enough to make me want to switch sides. It's awesome. Why don't rebels have a decimator? waa waa waa

I swear I have heard this line in an adult movie somewhere.

I feel like rebel players are always having to play mommy to the poor crying imperials.

YOU ARE MEANT TO BE HARD ARSE OPPRESSIVE TYRANTS GET WITH THE PROGRAM

Kind of hard to be the big bully when you lack the 'big' part...

Have you seen the Desimator? They had to make the **** box bigger just to fit the thing in.

You Imps will get your Epic ships just be patient.

My main concern is the health of Epic as a whole. Without a counterpart, the Imperial's only answer to Epic play is "field more fighters." Which, while ludicrously effective, also gets kind of boring in the face of such an army centerpiece. With the Imperial ships not announced yet, the odds of them being released around the same time as Armada have decreased. A lot of people who are anxious for Imperial ships are so because it'd let them have epic capital ships versus capital ship battles with fighters buzzing in between. Now that Armada is on the scene, a lot of those players are debating with themselves which of the two games to go for.

Which wouldn't be a problem for Epic in and of itself. If the Imperial ship hit the shelves around the same time as Armada. Because at that point, people are still on the fence and choosing. But if Armada comes first, and the Imperial ship is still a while away... I can see many of those players Epic players moving to Armada. And once the Imperial big ships come out, they could very well have found a comfortable place with Armada and will feel far less of a pull to play Epic.

I feel bad for FFG... I'm a big star wars fan but I can't think of any really recognizable Imperial Epic size ships... everything they have is super Epic and would take up the whole table. The smaller ships just don't feel like they are as well known and iconic as something like the Corellian Corvette. The die hards will buy the Imperial epics, but the general public is not going to be that impressed by some epic that they do not recognize from the movies.

So the viability of the Rebel huge ships in Epic play relies on an opponent intentionally taking a weak build?

I'm not 100% sure, but I do believe you may have missed the entire point of the post. And Epic/Cinematic play in general, for that matter.

Murderfang? A dreadnought with a bare head? where are my sniper drones at? BOOM HEADSHOT!

Make bjorn the fellhanded instead...

MURDERFANG!!! MURDERFANG!!!!! MURDERFAAAAAAAAAAANG!!11!!!!1111!!!!!!!

(and Logan Grimnar on a flying wolf chariot toooooooooooooo)

Maybe, with the release of Star Wars Rebels, Gozanti gets iconic enough to release it. It would be my guess.

I would only go *** for 2 reasons. The Decimator or Ewan McGreggor.

How about a new Star Wars spin off movie staring Ewan McGreggor titled "Epic Decimator".

I would only go *** for 2 reasons. The Decimator or Ewan McGreggor.

Edit: in my neck of the woods its called a black mumba